Wigans goes there. Cadence!

[Mrs John Murphy]

Your example of weak statehood does not demonstrate it whatsoever. And even in the social sciences correlation does not equal causation.

Again, even when corruption is evident in every weak state you cannot from the correlation gather which caused which, it just is not possible, its only a correlation. You can probably say without a pause that in a weak state there is corruption, the challenge is to find causation. Which caused the other, you cannot do that and you have not demonstrated that in your example.

I suggest then that you talk to the authors of the FSI as they disagree with you. I know whose view I respect more on methodology and weak statehood.

As to your last point - have you actually read the literature on weak statehood and corruption? I'm trying to work out why you are trying to argue that the argument is something that no one argues. Weak statehood is caused by corruption (and other factors cf the FSI measures), corruption is also able to flourish because of low state capacity (cf the CPI measures). There is a correlation between the two factors and the two factors are mutually re-enforcing causes of the other.

 

[noddy69]

I suggest then that you talk to the authors of the FSI as they disagree with you. I know whose view I respect more on methodology and weak statehood.

As to your last point - have you actually read the literature on weak statehood and corruption? I'm trying to work out why you are trying to argue that the argument is something that no one argues. Weak statehood is caused by corruption (and other factors cf the FSI measures), corruption is also able to flourish because of low state capacity (cf the CPI measures). There is a correlation between the two factors and the two factors are mutually re-enforcing causes of the other.

I give up.I also stand by what I say happy in the knowledge I am correct

 

[DirtyWorks]

Why not?

I asked months ago for anyone to give a scientific explanation to this yet nobody has. Why isn't it possible for a track endurance rider to convert to road and then become a GT contender?

What is not "normal" is Wiggins' track endurance pedigree.

Now you are being dishonest. I'm not sure what your specific motivations are for polluting this thread by disagreeing, then asking questions then discrediting any kind of response to then question and then repeating.

Thanks for abusing the scientific process. You have earned a spot next to the world renown pseudo-scientist Ed Coyle. Enjoy your victory lap because you've earned your place on the ignore list.

 

[acoggan]

Which study is that?

See Ref. 3 of this article:

http://www.trainingandracingwithapowermeter.com/2010/04/demands-of-individual-pursuit-part-1.html

While you're at it, I suggest that you read the accompanying text, as well as the parts 2 and 3, because it is clear from your comments in this thread that either you have a poor understanding of the physiological demands of pursuiting, or are more interested in appearing smart/"winning" an online argument than in being correct.

 

[acoggan]

When a group of us went training with Cadel years ago, the first thing he did when we got to the midway coffee stop was recalibrate his power meter.

<sarcasm mode on>

Damn! So that's his secret: taking heavy weights with him even on coffee shop rides.

<sarcasm mode off>

 

[M Sport]

Prior to Wigan, who was the last successful pursuit rider to win the Tour De France?

 

[acoggan]

I can find the post if you want, but I asked you to explain why a MAOD test has any bearing on Brad's ability on the road.

Both you and acoggan declined.

So please do so, then point out where I declined to answer the question.

 

[acoggan]

I think it bears mentioning acoggan is working with a supplier to Team Sky.

You mean WKO+? It's no secret that I was involved in the development of its predecessor, CyclingPeaks, and consequently receive a royalty (of $1/copy) from TrainingPeaks (which absorbed CyclingPeaks Software back in 2006) for every copy of the program sold. TrainingPeaks also likes to tout the various pro teams that use their services. However, I don't work for (or with) TrainingPeaks, and have no other direct or indirect connections to Team Sky.

 

[the big ring]

See Ref. 3 of this article:

http://www.trainingandracingwithapowermeter.com/2010/04/demands-of-individual-pursuit-part-1.html

While you're at it, I suggest that you read the accompanying text, as well as the parts 2 and 3, because it is clear from your comments in this thread that either you have a poor understanding of the physiological demands of pursuiting, or are more interested in appearing smart/"winning" an online argument than in being correct.

very difficult to defend a baseless accusation, very clever. point out a single example of my poor understanding. dare you.

 

[D-Queued]

Prior to Wigan, who was the last successful pursuit rider to win the Tour De France?

Always with the tough questions.

Make it easier.

How about the last cyclist to win the Tour who distinguished themselves, in any way, on the track prior to winning the Tour?

Dave.

 

[acoggan]

very difficult to defend a baseless accusation, very clever. point out a single example of my poor understanding. dare you.

The first example that comes to mind is the post you deleted, in which you ****ed up the estimation of VO2max based on pursuit power. That post is gone, but my reply to it remains should anyone reading this care to search for it.

 

[acoggan]

How about the last cyclist to win the Tour who distinguished themselves, in any way, on the track prior to winning the Tour?

First example that comes to my mind is Greg Lemond...

 

[the big ring]

The first example that comes to mind is the post you deleted, in which you ****ed up the estimation of VO2max based on pursuit power. That post is gone, but my reply to it remains should anyone reading this care to search for it.

i realised my error, as indicated, and deleted it before you had finished your reply. given it was a mathematical error, obvious once I saw it, and that I am teaching myself things you had the esteemable Ed Coyle to help you with, I personally think I am doing a damn fine job.

pick one we can all read and laugh at.

 

[the big ring]

You mean WKO+? It's no secret that I was involved in the development of its predecessor, CyclingPeaks, and consequently receive a royalty (of $1/copy) from TrainingPeaks (which absorbed CyclingPeaks Software back in 2006) for every copy of the program sold. TrainingPeaks also likes to tout the various pro teams that use their services. However, I don't work for (or with) TrainingPeaks, and have no other direct or indirect connections to Team Sky.

Funny huh. I read this just the other day: http://blog.trainingpeaks.com/posts/2012/9/18/gears-thoughts-its-grow-time.html

Tuesday, September 18, 2012 at 2:34PM

The Band is Back": WKO+ 4

Next, I'd like to announce that the band is back together - development of WKO+ version 4 is under way! Exercise physiologist Dr. Andy Coggan, Coach Hunter Allen and the original software engineer of CyclingPeaks, Kevin Williams are once again teamed up and working full steam ahead to build the next generation of our cutting-edge data-analysis desktop software

Now, you may be doing it for free, or royalties, or a nice meal, but according to trainingpeaks, you are working on the software they sell.

And this is how embedded WKO+ is in the "reason" for Sky's success:

http://www.cyclesportmag.com/features/all-aboard-the-magic-bus/

Kerrison has the appearance of a youthful university professor. Neat hair and a serious manner. He is sitting in reception, working on his laptop. To the uninitiated, the screen shows a jumble of charts and numbers but the Training Peaks software plots every effort Wiggins has made on a bicycle this year.

You have a conflict of interest in defending team Sky's performance. And have never stated it. And if you're not defending it, you're doing a very good job of looking like you are.

TO clarify: the company with which you are working (TP) has a commercial relationship with the company (Team Sky) you spend a lot of time in here deflecting and disagreeing with people who imply or outright state their (Sky's) cycling performance is unnatural.

You did this when I wrote about Hayles Hct & Brailsford's complicity.

 

[oldcrank]

Make it easier.

How about the last cyclist to win the Tour who distinguished themselves, in any way, on the track prior to winning the Tour?

Dave.

Well yes that is very easy. Eddy won the Ghent Six-Day twice
before he won his first Tour de France. Historical facts, Dave.

 

[the big ring]

Well yes that is very easy. Eddy won the Ghent Six-Day twice
before he won his first Tour de France. Historical facts, Dave.

A delicious example. Is there any difference between racing for 6 days straight, for hours a day, vs 2 - 3 x 4km efforts over a couple of days, when trying to speculate a track cyclist's likelihood for success in a multi-stage race like the Tour de France.

To be pedantic, however, Eddy won the 6 days of Ghent as

1964 World amateur road champion

1965 Six Days of Ghent (with Patrick Sercu)

So I am guessing he was a roadie on the track, not a trackie on the road. Regardless, his Ghent win does not predate an obvious ability on the road.

This is further evidenced by his palmares before he won his second 6-day at Ghent:

1966
Milan – San Remo
Trofeo Baracchi, with Ferdinand Bracke
Championship of Flanders
Tour de Morbihan

1967 (Team Peugeot-BP)
world championship
Milan – San Remo
La Flèche Wallonne
Gent–Wevelgem
Trofeo Baracchi, with Ferdi Bracke
2 stages, Giro d'Italia
Critérium des As
Six Days of Ghent (with Patrick Sercu)

Yeah I'd say that's a roadie on the track.

Disclaimer: results are listed from wiki - their chronology may more readily support your point, and no deliberate attempt at misleading has been made.

ETA: looks like the 6-day occurs in November each year, so pretty safe to say he had that road palmares before winning a multi-day, hours at a time track race for the second time.

 

[oldcrank]

Make it easier.

How about the last cyclist to win the Tour who distinguished themselves, in any way, on the track prior to winning the Tour?

Dave.

And of course there is Jacques Anquetil who set the Hour Record
before he won the Tour. So with Eddy, and Greg's world junior
pursuit medal that is at least three for you Dave. Glad to be
of help.

 

[the big ring]

And of course there is Jacques Anquetil who set the Hour Record
before he won the Tour. So with Eddy, and Greg's world junior
pursuit medal that is at least three for you Dave. Glad to be
of help.

Eddy was an amateur road world champion first.

Here's Greg Lemond's palmares, pulled directly from wiki:

1977
1st MaillotUSA.PNG National Road Race Champion (Junior)
1978
1st Overall Vuelta de Bisbee
3rd TTT Junior World Championship
1979
1st MaillotMundial.PNG World Road Race Champion (Junior)
1st MaillotUSA.PNG National Road Race Champion (Junior)
1st Nevada City Classic
2nd Track Pursuit, Junior World Championship

Junior USA road champ, Junior TTT world champ, minor tour winner, World road race champ, national road race champ, road race winner. Oh. And then he came second in a pursuit.

Riiiiiight. A real trackie.

Uh huh.

 

[the big ring]

I see now that pedantically, you may be correct.

But Bradley Wiggins ain't no Greg Lemond, Eddy Merckx or Jaques Anquetil.

Not on the planet I'm living.

 

[oldcrank]

Riiiiiight. A real trackie.Uh huh.

And where was it that I said Eddy, Jacques or Greg were Trackies?
I was just answering Dave's question.
You seem to have a very large chip on your shoulder, son.
Maybe you should take a self imposed break from the
forums and go for a ride. It might help you, lad. Is there
a velodrome in your town?

 

[the big ring]

Magically disappearing posts.

The discussion: is Brad Wiggins' TdF win believable.

For: he won the 4km IP heaps and heaps.

Against: so effing what. He did nothing on the road.

For: But track endurance rider physiology is similar to pro road physiology!!

Against: so name one rider who excelled on the track before winning the tour.

Keep in mind, this is to support the notion that "Brad Wiggins' TdF win is believable". Keep your eye on this, as it's the point of this entire thread.

So For list 3 road riders who also did well on the track. Three riders who already had impeccable road palmares before their track excellence.

The implication is: "(Roadies) Jaques, Eddy and Greg did it, so of course (trackie) Brad can".

If you honestly think Brad is in their league, this discussion can go nowhere.

 

[acoggan]

according to trainingpeaks, you are working on the software they sell.

That's not the same as working for TrainingPeaks (with whom my relationship is exactly as I described).

Perhaps more to the point, I highly doubt that the success/failure of Team Sky (via doping or marginal gains) has any impact whatsoever on the sales of WKO+.

 

[oldcrank]

The implication is: "(Roadies) Jaques, Eddy and Greg did it, so of course (trackie) Brad can".
If you honestly think Brad is in their league, this discussion can go nowhere.

No implication of any sort. I was answering a specific question
posed by Dave that I quoted in both my posts.

 

[acoggan]

the company with which you are working (TP) has a commercial relationship with the company (Team Sky)

Not true (in that I don't work for TrainingPeaks, and never have).

you spend a lot of time in here deflecting and disagreeing with people who imply or outright state their (Sky's) cycling performance is unnatural.

"A lot of time"?? In case you haven't noticed, I haven't posted to this (or any other thread) in over a week, and my comments have been restricted to whether or not Wiggins' success as a pursuiter makes it possible (from a physiological perspective) that he won the TdF this year w/o doping. In particular, I have not defended Sky, and I have never claimed to know whether Wiggins or Sky have relied upon doping.

 

[acoggan]

No implication of any sort. I was answering a specific question
posed by Dave that I quoted in both my posts.

Not to mention the fact that no one has claimed that Wiggins winning the TdF once puts him the same league as Lemond, etc.