Wigans goes there. Cadence!

[Tonton]

Starting at 8:52, how Renault became Guimard's team sponsor, enabling Hinault to use a wind tunnel, improve his posture for ITT. Nothing new here. OT again, but explaining the Alex what I meant earlier...

https://youtu.be/33uQLQ1DA-I

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Wiggo was doing 2 lap turns in the TP qualifier.

Seems legit.

 

[Benotti69]

Team Wiggins honouring Tom Simpson's World champ win 50 years ago at ToB. Wonder did they take the same cocktail too...........

 

[JimmyFingers]

Dehydration, amphetamine addiction and a bottle of brandy? Almost certainly

 

[Brullnux]

Right so Team Wiggins manage to transform Owian Doull into a puncher/sprinter/hardman after a year in which his biggest achievements were the points jersey in a 2.2 race, 11 at the velothon Wales, 7th at the UK championships, 6:30 minutes down, and 2nd at the Cote Picardie, a flat under 23 race. At the Tour of Britain he is 4th overall, came 11th in a HTF, beat Viviani in a sprint one day, leads the points jersey. His results on the flat stages aren't surprising, but Hartside Fell and today, as well as Stage 2 to lesser extent, are just incredibly surprising. Doull has taken lessons from Nibs about super-peaking.

 

[Benotti69]

“We need guys like Geert Leinders...“ – Bradley Wiggins

Geert Leinders given life ban.

http://wada-mailing-list.s3.amazonaws.com/WADA_Prohibited_Association_List_EN_31Aug2015.pdf

 

[the sceptic]

I thought he got banned for life already

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

I thought he got banned for life already

Yep, the official list publication of it and others.

No harm reminding people though is it.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

If UCI were truly anti doping they would be retroactively testing samples continuously..............

For what?

That is the whole point. They have already been tested for whatever the testers are able to test. No point retesting until the testing technology develops.

The have been tested for what was known at the time, but not retested for what is now known to have been the substance of choice. Why not retest Wiggins samples for AICAR for example. In 2009 there was not a test for AICAR.

The decision to drop the Cologne lab points to a sport with little inclination to change the culture of doping.

 

[wendybnt]

Re: Re:

If UCI were truly anti doping they would be retroactively testing samples continuously..............

For what?

That is the whole point. They have already been tested for whatever the testers are able to test. No point retesting until the testing technology develops.

The have been tested for what was known at the time, but not retested for what is now known to have been the substance of choice. Why not retest Wiggins samples for AICAR for example. In 2009 there was not a test for AICAR.

The decision to drop the Cologne lab points to a sport with little inclination to change the culture of doping.

And if Wiggins sample was found to contain AICAR, so what? Aicar was not banned until 2011. No ban= not cheating. That is how the law works.

From 2011 onwards, then yes..I agree with you.

I also agree with you that the UCI does not do all it could to catch cheats.

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

If UCI were truly anti doping they would be retroactively testing samples continuously..............

For what?

That is the whole point. They have already been tested for whatever the testers are able to test. No point retesting until the testing technology develops.

The have been tested for what was known at the time, but not retested for what is now known to have been the substance of choice. Why not retest Wiggins samples for AICAR for example. In 2009 there was not a test for AICAR.

The decision to drop the Cologne lab points to a sport with little inclination to change the culture of doping.

And if Wiggins sample was found to contain AICAR, so what? Aicar was not banned until 2011. No ban= not cheating. That is how the law works.

From 2011 onwards, then yes..I agree with you.

I also agree with you that the UCI does not do all it could to catch cheats.

So what? lol

The fairy tale that Wiggo tells relies on him always being clean, end of story.

Positive for Aicar= fairy tale over. Sir Bradley Wiggins goes back to being Mr. Bradley Wiggins. He would be desecrated in public and shunned in private for being the biggest hypocrite since Lance Armstrong. Legal or not...

 

[wendybnt]

He would have been revealed to have taken a substance. He would not have been revealed to have taken a banned substance.

By your logic he would become a 'dirty' rider if he drank coffee, and it subsequently became a banned substance.

Clean= no banned substances. It does not = no substances.

 

[Irondan]

Re:

He would have been revealed to have taken a substance. He would not have been revealed to have taken a banned substance.

By your logic he would become a 'dirty' rider if he drank coffee, and it subsequently became a banned substance.

Clean= no banned substances. It does not = no substances.

It's not my logic though that's flawed. I'm only pointing out the facts. A pos for Aicar at ANY time is a death knell to the Wiggo fantasy.

I like Bradley Wiggins but even I see the writing on the wall

Using coffee as some sort of metaphor in this instance does nothing to further your case.

 

[wendybnt]

I disagree. I think it wouldn't look good, his reputation may suffer, but his win would remain intact. Nobody could challenge it.

If you think differently, perhaps you can cite an instance where an athlete has been retrospectively censured for using a substance that was not banned at the time of use?

 

[Irondan]

I don't think there necessarily has to be a precedent set in this case. I think this would be a unique situation because there's only one Sir Bradley Wiggins.

Tbh, I'd like to hear the opinions of some clinic regulars regarding this.

 

[wendybnt]

There's only one 'anybody'.

Francesco Moser's hour record has not been scrubbed from the history books, nor have the medals of the 1984 US cycling team.

Reputational damage, yes. Anything else, no.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

I don't think there necessarily has to be a precedent set in this case. I think this would be a unique situation because there's only one Sir Bradley Wiggins.

Tbh, I'd like to hear the opinions of some clinic regulars regarding this.

Is 2012 enough? Always makes me snort when alleged doping fence sitters out themselves with their fantasies.

WADA prohibited list from 2012: https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/resources/files/WADA_Prohibited_List_2012_EN.pdf

From S4:

Metabolic modulators: Peroxisome Proliferator Activated Receptor δ (PPARδ) agonists (e.g. GW 1516), PPARδ - AMP - activated protein kinase (AMPK) axis agonists (e.g. AICAR)

Ahhh what the hell. Here's the list from 2009: http://www.ifbb.com/pdf/wadaprohibited.pdf

M3. Gene Doping
The transfer of cells or genetic elements or the use of cells, genetic elements or pharmacological agents to modulating expression of endogenous genes having the capacity to enhance athletic performance, is prohibited.

Peroxisome Proliferator Activated Receptor δ (PPAR δ) agonists (e.g. GW 1516) and PPAR δ -AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK) axis agonists (e.g. AICAR)
are prohibited.

Bring on that retroactive testing, I say.

 

[Irondan]

It seems AICAR was actually banned in 2009.

The fairy tale was created at the hands of a prohibited substance, i'd say wiggo has a big problem when or if they ever get to any of his old samples. Tbh, I'm not so sure they even have samples stored from back in 2009.

Does anyone know if the UCI held onto any samples from back then?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re:

It seems AICAR was actually banned in 2009.

The fairy tale was created at the hands of a prohibited substance, i'd say wiggo has a big problem when or if they ever get to any of his old samples. Tbh, I'm not so sure they even have samples stored from back in 2009.

Does anyone know if the UCI held onto any samples from back then?

At a guess Wiggo was a surprise in 2009, so possibly yes. Once they realised what he could and was going to do (see Sky meetings with ASO), I am guessing the target testing dodged potentially doped riders -- Ryder's testing in the 2012 Giro proves that, I believe.

 

[wendybnt]

Re:

It seems AICAR was actually banned in 2009.

The fairy tale was created at the hands of a prohibited substance, i'd say wiggo has a big problem when or if they ever get to any of his old samples. Tbh, I'm not so sure they even have samples stored from back in 2009.

Does anyone know if the UCI held onto any samples from back then?

Ah, my bad, i thought it was 2011.

In which case, yes, he'd be hung out to dry, and rightly so.

 

[Irondan]

It's possible the legend of Sir Bradley Wiggins remains a fairy tale forever, but here in the clinic he's fooling nobody.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

It's possible the legend of Sir Bradley Wiggins remains a fairy tale forever, but here in the clinic he's fooling nobody.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Yep..even the trolls who crow "you can't know for sure", know perfectly well wiggo cheated his way through that 2012 season.

 

[Ramon Koran]

Re: Re:

It's possible the legend of Sir Bradley Wiggins remains a fairy tale forever, but here in the clinic he's fooling nobody.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Yep..even the trolls who crow "you can't know for sure", know perfectly well wiggo cheated his way through that 2012 season.

How is saying "you can't know for sure" trolling, that is IMO simply a fact unless you are Wiggins himself you can't know weather or not he took any banned substances, you can speculate because of his change in body shape and improved climbing. But in no way does that say with certainty he is doping.

 

[wendybnt]

Wiggins almost certainly did dope for 2012, how else could he have done it?
But yeah, almost certainly isn't certainly, that is true.

 

[The Hitch]

Because I do know for sure. If you don't then that's your thing. Don't tell me what I know.