Wigans quote watch

[Anonymous]

Without wanting to get this fire started again please note that many of us on this side of the Atlantic are `actually educated about the war' also.

Returning to Wiggins, when he does finally hang up his wheels what next `Celebrity Masterchef', `Strictly Come Dancing', `Dancing on Ice'...? Cavendish has already said he can't do SCD as he was a ballroom dancer once!

Clearly you are educated. I would think that there is generally a more intimate knowledge in the populace of Europe considering the war was fought on your soil.

As to Wigans, well, he'd better hope that his legs back up his quips.

 

[Hawkwood]

As to Wigans, well, he'd better hope that his legs back up his quips.

I don't find him that funny, so I'd have to say I hope his legs are better than his quips.

 

[Winterfold]

I think Godwin's Law came into effect a long time ago.

However there is still some hope of discussing how much cooler and more fashionable cycling is going to be now us Brits are taking over:

Sir Paul: http://www.paulsmith.co.uk/company/

Want to be the coolest fakeenger* on the planet?

http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/psmith_track.asp?pk_pic=13#5

(*an oxymoron I am well aware)

Just want to be cool?

http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/psmith_tour.asp?pk_pic=8#8 **

yeaaahhhh baby!!

(** a bit too retro for my tastes, just the frame would be better with a modern wheelset, gruppo and finishing kit)

 

[Big GMaC]

I think Godwin's Law came into effect a long time ago.

Actually I don't think Godwin's law applies in its strictest interpretation. Yes Hitler was mentioned, but it was in a reasonably educated discussion about the 2nd World War (a nice segway set up Dr. M) but he was not used to back up an Ad Homenim attack, which is what I believe the strict interpretation to be.

Also £2,800 is a bit much for a fakeenger. Strictly for epic tools. So I guess that includes fakeengers after all

 

[Winterfold]

yes fair comment - the debate actually got more interesting as it went on, which is a sure sign that Godwin's Law does not apply. This doesn't seem to be the kind of bear pit where either side believe that 'we would have won the war without you - no you wouldn't' stuff other than for the purposes of yanking someone's chain.

re the bike I was thinking of the most well-heeled strictly Rapha fakeengers who are heading for the City - is there any other kind? I would be amazed if any of them had heard of Mercian tbh

I love the wistful longing looks they give my rear mech while they are spinning at 160rpm at 16mph

(I must confess that I am dual national Yank/Brit so reserve the right to take the pi55/be offended as suits)

 

[cyclopeon]

Yes, I am here.

As to your assertion that there exists an attitude that the war was won without the help of anyone else, you obviously are ignorant of scholarly interpretation written by many well respected American historians. Maybe you should read more and opine less?

However, statements such as yours are more about jingoism than honest examination. Apparently you believe your the root of your diatribe is less transparent than it is. Let me guess, you are Australian?

Sorry, you're way off base here. I've read many such INTERPRETATIONS, as you rightly call them, by many American historians and come away without much particular respect for their ability to reason independantly. I read a lot and opine when other opinions are at odds with reasonable conclusions.

Jingoism? Pffft.

Your ending guess is no better than the rest of your post; I am as American as you are except for my habit not to let others do my thinking for me.

I probably shouldn't have replied here but I didn't want TFF to think his/her remarks anywhere near on target. Apologies to the list (again!); letting go now.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry, you're way off base here. I've read many such INTERPRETATIONS, as you rightly call them, by many American historians and come away without much particular respect for their ability to reason independantly. I read a lot and opine when other opinions are at odds with reasonable conclusions.

Jingoism? Pffft.

Your ending guess is no better than the rest of your post; I am as American as you are except for my habit not to let others do my thinking for me.

I probably shouldn't have replied here but I didn't want TFF to think his/her remarks anywhere near on target. Apologies to the list (again!); letting go now.

Oh, she bites...only she has marginally useful opinions that she believes are staggeringly insightful. And in case you were not aware, all historical accounts and examinations are interpretations....even yours. Sorry, that is how that cookie crumbles in any scholarly pursuit. Dang, I know you thought you were "right."

 

[Epoché]

I don't find him that funny, so I'd have to say I hope his legs are better than his quips.

I don't think it's Wiggin's humour that people don't get. It's more the sort of dark way some British people speak designed to confuse more than make people laugh. If there is a cultural devide then that would be where it's at.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I don't think it's Wiggin's humour that people don't get. It's more the sort of dark way some British people speak designed to confuse more than make people laugh. If there is a cultural devide then that would be where it's at.

I really hope you are British - because then your second sentence would make complete sense.

 

[Epoché]

I really hope you are British - because then your second sentence would make complete sense.

I'm saying humour isn't necessarily the desired outcome, it's more just trying to confuse and be a bit black. I think this is where the misunderstanding may come from.

Going back to the comedy issue. I don't buy the argument that British comedy is somehow special. For the most part British comedy is crap. Yes we did pioneer a certain type of satirical comedy in the early 60s, but the Americans have long since picked up the ball and run with it. What is better at doing that over the last 20 years than the likes of South park and the Simpsons? Even America's crappiest comedies are better than most of the stuff on British TV in my opinion. Which British comedy actor is better than Ben Stiller? And so on.

Brits are primarily miserable and self loathing, not funny. Sometimes that can make for good comedy but it's very hit and miss.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't think it's Wiggin's humour that people don't get. It's more the sort of dark way some British people speak designed to confuse more than make people laugh. If there is a cultural devide then that would be where it's at.

What...? Youve lost me

 

[taiwan]

Just watching a lady unload 2 dildos and a bottle of red wine because her bag is to heavy at the check in, made me smile!

I'm saying humour isn't necessarily the desired outcome, it's more just trying to confuse and be a bit black. I think this is where the misunderstanding may come from.

Basically you're saying that his humour is beyond being dry: it's an attempt to intimidate people intellectually.

What if there were 3 dildos?

 

[Anonymous]

Basically you're saying that his humour is beyond being dry: it's an attempt to intimidate people intellectually.

What if there were 3 dildos?

I dont even see whats humerous about the dildo quote. he was just relaying factually what he saw and the fact that it made him smile.

If any of us saw a woman having to unload the aforementioned objects it would make us smile, and likely that we would tell some people about it

no humour involved..

Get over it everyone..

 

[craig1985]

I dont even see whats humerous about the dildo quote. he was just relaying factually what he saw and the fact that it made him smile.

If any of us saw a woman having to unload the aforementioned objects it would make us smile, and likely that we would tell some people about it

no humour involved..

Get over it everyone..

Pretty much. It one of the stories I would tell everybody on the bike, at work etc.

 

[Anonymous]

Pretty much. It one of the stories I would tell everybody on the bike, at work etc.

I would probably twitter it and put it on facebook as well..

 

[Epoché]

Basically you're saying that his humour is beyond being dry: it's an attempt to intimidate people intellectually.

What if there were 3 dildos?

No, that's not it.

You know how there is always some big point to everything that Americans say. Every little quote is taken really seriously? What did he mean by that joke? Why does he tweet this or that remark? Well that's not so much the case with Brits - if someone is saying something, it doesn't necessarily have a point to it. It just is.

Well I understand what I mean here.

 

[richwagmn]

This thread needs one of these.

I second this though a bit unfair to LA.

 

[BroDeal]

You know how there is always some big point to everything that Americans say. Every little quote is taken really seriously? What did he mean by that joke? Why does he tweet this or that remark? Well that's not so much the case with Brits - if someone is saying something, it doesn't necessarily have a point to it. It just is.

I await the time, sometime in a distant and glorious future, when Americans evolve enough to babble on without meaning or purpose. Perhaps Twitter can be a path to this utopia; it is almost custom made for people who do not want to think before communicating.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I second this though a bit unfair to LA.

Yes it should have been the Fokker Tri-plane, it was much more hi-tech.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Seems like the concept of 'observational comedy' is totally lost on Epoché.

Besides, comedy has to evolve, just like music, film or anything else, otherwise it becomes stale. The likes of South Park do not come from the same type of humour as the early 60s satirists. Saturday Night Live was hugely influenced by Monty Python, and while Monty Python is often great, there is a huge amount of surrealism that means it sometimes feels like throwing a lot at the wall and seeing what sticks; a lot of British comedy institutions are from this surrealist background, from the translating French badly in badly-spoken English with the fetishist Germans in 'Allo, 'Allo, to the absurdist quiz format in Shooting Stars, the creepy 'Deliverance'-style characters of The League Of Gentlemen, to the hipster lunacy in The Mighty Boosh. The other holding pattern in British comedy is Schadenfreude; this is where your typical 'cringe comedy' comes in -often focused around one central character's inherent inability to perceive himself accurately - I'm Alan Partridge, The Office, Operation Good Guys (straddling both surrealism and Schadenfreude), Peter Kay's Phoenix Nights and so on.

Other times, we just want people hitting each other with frying pans (Bottom, The Young Ones).

The reason British comedy is so well-perceived is often to do with its seeming intellectual, perhaps because of the Oxbridge backgrounds of many of its big names (see the likes of QI, Blackadder and Not The Nine O'Clock News) so it can be treated in an élitist manner in some circles, and often to do with the perception, rightly or wrongly, that British comedy is somehow more innovative, and because comedy needs to be kept fresh this makes British comedy seem like it's responsible for progress, even when it is not at all uncommon that the Americans will take those ideas and develop them further than they ever were developed in British shows.

Besides - the likes of the Marx Brothers were American, and they were much, much, much funnier than anything Britain could offer for the best part of forty years after their heyday.

 

[Winterfold]

There is a prize of a cultural theory PhD for anyone who can top that post by Libertine.

(Second prize; two cultural theory PhDs)

I thought the dildo one was funny. His airport twitterings are quite amusing. The repetitive motif of the 'What's in that SKY Pro Cycling bike box?' is comic genius.

However, seeing drop him LA on the Tourmalet - now that would be hysterical.

 

[Galic Ho]

There is a prize of a cultural theory PhD for anyone who can top that post by Libertine.

(Second prize; two cultural theory PhDs)

I thought the dildo one was funny. His airport twitterings are quite amusing. The repetitive motif of the 'What's in that SKY Pro Cycling bike box?' is comic genius.

However, seeing drop him LA on the Tourmalet - now that would be hysterical.

I can in a way. Frequency in episodes provides an insight into British and American writers and producers. The Office, The IT Crowd and The Mighty Boosh all suffer from the same stalemate. Very few episodes in a season. Under 10 a season. The IT Crowd has on average 6 episodes a season. Must be a British thing. American shows average 22 or 24 episodes a season. Modern day comedies in the UK are perceived by many to be high quality because of their rich, insightful and calculated humour. However humour is like a sponge. Writers and comedic actors cannot pull a miracle out of the bag over an extended period. Solution. Less episodes. Quality is condensed and originality and creativity is jam packed into a short session. The creators only have so much moisture in their sponges. British shows put it all into a hand full of episodes.

Cross over to the US and the very funny episodes are spread apart, but the overall quality is higher because the seasons run longer. Rip the humour and ideas from the short British seasons and transfer it across to an American tv season. The British shows would lose a great deal of their appeal because the crux of comedy would be stretched thin. In short, the Americans have more moisture in their sponges, allowing them to not have to condense all the humour into a short viewing season.

This applies for shows today. I couldn't care less about 20 years ago, which I suspect was a very different prospect.

 

[theyoungest]

Cross over to the US and the very funny episodes are spread apart, but the overall quality is higher because the seasons run longer. Rip the humour and ideas from the short British seasons and transfer it across to an American tv season. The British shows would lose a great deal of their appeal because the crux of comedy would be stretched thin. In short, the Americans have more moisture in their sponges, allowing them to not have to condense all the humour into a short viewing season.

You're partly right, but the fact that American tv seasons are longer is a money-based thing, so you really can't tell if the British tv makers would be able to keep a longer season interesting. If you're adding water to your wine it doesn't really matter if the original product has high quality.

 

[Epoché]

Seems like the concept of 'observational comedy' is totally lost on Epoché.

Not at all, and I'm not saying Britain did not pioneer some good styles of comedy. But the fact remains that American comedy has been superior to British comedy for some time, just as American drama has been. Culturally it's obviously easier to understand the things you are familiar with, but objectively there is no question which comedy is better.

We should stop living off old glories.

 

[Four Winds]

US comedy is definitely not helped by running long series and not quitting while they're ahead. Classic UK series like Fawlty Towers, the Office etc knew when to quit and leave us wanting more. If Fawlty Towers had gone on for 10series of 20 episodes it would have become stale and wouldn't be remembered in the same light. Some US series like Friends massively outstayed their welcome, with actors getting $1 million per episode etc. I used to find it moderately amusing but now can't even bare to have it on.

Not many US series have managed to keep my interest, and not just the comedy ones. There's no accounting for taste, but Family Guy and Curb Your Enthusiasm have kept up a high (or low?!) standard fairly well.

Anyway, interesting discussion & should prob not be in the pro road racing section?