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Wiggins, Clinic respect?

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Oct 10, 2012
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That's a very impressive medical history rundown on Wiggins there Sam.

Doctor Freeman could have used your services, then maybe there would have been no stolen laptops or lack of medical records.
 
Feb 21, 2017
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pastronef said:
ruamruam said:
yaco said:
Nothing like Sam to provide some facts in the middle of overblown hysteria - Gotta think Sam has some loose connections with BC or the cycling peleton.
Maybe not so loose. He does seem to spend an awful lot of time defencing BC and Sky
he made a list of all the medical asthma-allergy related history of Wiggins career. kudos to him, he didnt throw accusations or guessed about the contents of jiffy bags or whatever.
he wrote a list. he spend an awful lot of time depending, others spend an awful lot of time accusing. that´s what The Clinic is made for I think.
J'ACCUSE!! :razz:
 
Feb 5, 2018
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Wiggo's Package said:
Dan2016 said:
It should not be forgotten Wiggins' attempt, via Freeman - who was scuppered by more scrupulous team docs - to use Kenalog at the Tour of Britain.

The Devil is in the details.
Sam missed that one off his list for some reason

And Wiggo won that race so was he really ill...
indeed!
i m only a Cat 3 rider and i know if i had an allergies/asthma i would not be able to train, let alone hold the repeated 3-5 minutes of 320-350W it would take to hold the wheel in that level of race here so how, it is amazing how many major races have been won by sickly riders suffering from all sorts of allergies and asthma related conditions beating healthy riders isnt it?
 
Jun 8, 2016
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Re: Re:

ruamruam said:
yaco said:
Nothing like Sam to provide some facts in the middle of overblown hysteria - Gotta think Sam has some loose connections with BC or the cycling peleton.
Maybe not so loose. He does seem to spend an awful lot of time defencing BC and Sky
Does being the president of a cycling club affiliated with BC count ?
 
Mar 7, 2017
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chuuurles said:
ruamruam said:
yaco said:
Nothing like Sam to provide some facts in the middle of overblown hysteria - Gotta think Sam has some loose connections with BC or the cycling peleton.
Maybe not so loose. He does seem to spend an awful lot of time defencing BC and Sky
Does being the president of a cycling club affiliated with BC count ?
Kool Aid and the Gang :cool:
 
Jan 15, 2013
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samhocking said:
If anyone should be investigated it's clearly Hargreaves. His report is what allows UCI to grant the Triamcinolone as he's tested Wiggins on what he claims is non-working maximal therapy in June 2011. Basically Hargreaves took the decision to move Wiggins from maximum oral corticosteroids he claims were no longer working in 2011 to Triamcinolone. Without the previous history for allergies going back to 2003 I would agree, it looks odd, but 1 million people out of the 12 million UK allergy sufferers were injected with Triamcinolone until NHS stopped advising it. Even today, the most sever cases are treated with injection.
Of these "most severe cases", how many had won Paris–Nice, the Tour de Romandie, and the Critérium du Dauphiné in the immediate period before "maximum oral corticosteroids" were "no longer working"? Three races which also include three ITT wins and a bunch sprint win (as well as several 2nd/3rd placings).

By chance I found an old discharge cert from hospital while clearing stuff out yesterday - I was in with serious asthma and a potential chest infection with a peak flow reading of 260 (which had a ! beside it in case someone thought it was normal) that went up to 470 after a couple of hours on a salbutamol nebuliser, compared to my normal 700+. That was can't walk up a single set of stairs territory. The doctor that came to my house refused to take payment and just called an ambulance straight away. I was given oral steroids and a antibiotic. At no stage were powerful slow-release injected steroids that would improve my power-to-weight ratio discussed as an option. Neither did I go on to win the Tour de France. Them's the breaks I guess.
 
Jan 15, 2013
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In case you think I'm bullshitting:



And how my 260 reading compared against the average male in their mid-20's, which I was at the time:


And yet my treatment was in line with what Wiggins' French doctors got TUEs for earlier in his career (which is standard medical practise), but nothing like as serious as his British doctors got TUEs for when he suddenly became a Tour contender.
 
Feb 5, 2018
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vedrafjord said:
samhocking said:
If anyone should be investigated it's clearly Hargreaves. His report is what allows UCI to grant the Triamcinolone as he's tested Wiggins on what he claims is non-working maximal therapy in June 2011. Basically Hargreaves took the decision to move Wiggins from maximum oral corticosteroids he claims were no longer working in 2011 to Triamcinolone. Without the previous history for allergies going back to 2003 I would agree, it looks odd, but 1 million people out of the 12 million UK allergy sufferers were injected with Triamcinolone until NHS stopped advising it. Even today, the most sever cases are treated with injection.
Of these "most severe cases", how many had won Paris–Nice, the Tour de Romandie, and the Critérium du Dauphiné in the immediate period before "maximum oral corticosteroids" were "no longer working"? Three races which also include three ITT wins and a bunch sprint win (as well as several 2nd/3rd placings).

By chance I found an old discharge cert from hospital while clearing stuff out yesterday - I was in with serious asthma and a potential chest infection with a peak flow reading of 260 (which had a ! beside it in case someone thought it was normal) that went up to 470 after a couple of hours on a salbutamol nebuliser, compared to my normal 700+. That was can't walk up a single set of stairs territory. The doctor that came to my house refused to take payment and just called an ambulance straight away. I was given oral steroids and a antibiotic. At no stage were powerful slow-release injected steroids that would improve my power-to-weight ratio discussed as an option. Neither did I go on to win the Tour de France. Them's the breaks I guess.
indeed, its amazing how successful these very sick riders are, beating healthy riders in many large races!
 
Re: Re:

thehog said:
Merckx index said:
TourOfSardinia said:
sam that's one impressive sleuthing on Wiggo allergy history - respect!
Yeah, thanks Sam, this is good stuff. I appreciate the time and effort it must have taken to gather all that. And as a sidelight, it reveals information that FB, for whatever reason, did not find or at least publish.
It’s not that impressive as Sam lifted it straight from Wiggins own account as printed in CyclingNews from BWs interview with the Guardian. If Sam was being honest he would have linked to the article instead of his cut and paste job edited down to make it look like his own research :surprised:

During the interview, Wiggins explained that while he had suffered from an allergy to pollen for some time, it wasn’t until the 2003 Giro d’Italia, his first ever Grand Tour, that he first felt it had impacted his ability to race. Wiggins was forced to leave the race following stage 18 after missing the time cut.

“When I had a severe attack, the day after I was wiped out,” he said before going into the details of the attack. “[It is] uncontrollable sneezing, runny nose, watery eyes, the urge to rub my eyes constantly, and in doing that the eyes becoming bloodshot … extreme. My breathing became restricted, like breathing through a straw at times.”

After the incident, Wiggins went to see British Cycling Dr Roger Pelfreeman, who would remain his medical point of contact until the spring of 2010 when he left the organisation. Dr Richard Freeman would come on board to replace him, working at both British Cycling and Team Sky, which made its debut that season. Wiggins says that the decision to stick with Dr Palfreeman was one of continuity as he moved around teams. Under his advice, Wiggins went under a series of tests.

“The results… were sent to the UCI and he pushed hard with the French Federation – I was racing for a French team at that time – and the UCI. I’m not sure what it would have been called, but it was the equivalent of today’s TUE,” he explained. “Back then at a pro team it would be written in your health book, it would be for two inhalers, fluticasone and salbutamol – it was the red inhaler basically. It was all agreed, stamped off and sent to the French Federation.

“In 2004 I went through the same process again, but I needed authorisation to compete at the summer Olympics under IOC doping regulations. So I had to complete another series of lung function tests, at the Manchester velodrome conducted by Andrea Wooles, who was in charge of that.

“Again, I did the lung function tests, all was well, and I got authorisation from the IOC. From 2005 to 2008 those applications were renewed each January to cover me for the season.”

Wiggins received three TUEs during the 2008 season, one in June and two in December. All were for 12 months and included varying dosages for Salbutamol. The last of the three, issued on December 16, also included the corticosteroid Budesonide and the β2-agonist Formoterol, which are often used together to combat asthma. That would run until the end of 2009, but when Wiggins joined Team Sky in 2010, he didn’t apply for a TUE.

“It wasn’t suggested to me,” he explained. “Aside from complaining about the normal symptoms – 'I’m on Clarityn, can you give me some of that, have we got loads on the race when we go to the Giro or the Tour? Can we have the nasal spray that I’m on? Just checking the usual stuff, eye drops, red inhalers, blue salbutamol inhalers' – never at any point was it suggested that we go and see a specialist.”

Wiggins says that he continued using over the counter hayfever products but suffered was affected badly by his allergies. The following season, 2011, he avoided any symptoms until racing at the Bayern Rundfahrt at the end of May where he says he ‘had quite a vicious attack.’ It wasn’t until the Dauphine in June that he met with Dr Freeman, who suggested he see a specialist. Following a training camp and the British national championships, Wiggins went to see a specialist on June 28, four days before the start of that year’s Tour de France. The application would be granted, with the date of June 29.

“I saw the specialist, he did a full examination of me, blood tests, this that and the other, I went home, and he compiled his report for Richard Freeman,” Wiggins said. “That’s the report he made to Richard Freeman. Upon doing that, the medication he suggested in there would need an application for a TUE. I was still unaware at this stage of what was happening because it was the first time I’d seen a specialist. Richard called me and said: 'you’ve been granted authorisation for a TUE based on seeing Dr Hargreaves' and that was that. He showed me the TUE application; he showed me the TUE certificate, and it was administered.

In 2012, Wiggins did not suffer any symptoms until he returned to racing following a training camp in Tenerife.

“Then I came back end of May, started to get the onset of symptoms then, once I was back home, we live surrounded by fields and woods, flowers and things so straight away I’d come out of that bubble in Tenerife and was straight into the onset of symptoms. Started all the usual, Clarityn, this that and the other, went to the Dauphiné, symptoms carried on as per usual, won the Dauphiné.”

The second TUE for Triamcinolone acetonide, also known as Kenalog, was issued some time after the Dauphine, in the week leading up to the Tour de France. A third one was issued at the end of April the following season. That’s where the TUEs stop for Wiggins, who says that his early racing schedule meant that he avoided any serious symptoms in 2014, and his decision to move to the track later that season also played a major factor.

was training indoors most of the time. I wasn’t displaying the symptoms, or they weren’t problematic, it wasn’t a huge issue other than going out on the road around here using Clarityn, eyedrops. I was indoors, I wasn’t having problems with my breathing, I wasn’t complaining about it, I didn’t need to go and see a specialist or anything.

“It was the same in 2015. I knew I’d finish at Paris-Roubaix, I knew I’d go and do the Hour Record project, and 90% of that is going to be indoors... it wasn’t a problem.”



http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bradley-wiggins-explains-tue-use-asthma-and-allergies/


Was actually originally a cycling weekly interview some of it came from from 2013. Some of it is from race reports in CW when Wiggins was with FdeJ & Cofidis at the time, some of it from Fancy Bears TUEs obviously leak, some of it from Wiggins later discussions to parlimanent and the two TV interviews. The main point is his TUE history for asthma and allergies began in 2003 and most of what he's said cross-references to articles from early 2000's. Obviously we only have proof of the TUEs since WADA. We can't cross-reference the TUEs from French Federation or Olympic Committee 2003 to 2007 he claims exist.
 
Re:

vedrafjord said:
In case you think I'm bullshitting:



And how my 260 reading compared against the average male in their mid-20's, which I was at the time:


And yet my treatment was in line with what Wiggins' French doctors got TUEs for earlier in his career (which is standard medical practise), but nothing like as serious as his British doctors got TUEs for when he suddenly became a Tour contender.
I'm not the one that needs convincing. Without his medical history, I have no idea if it's not justified based on your medical history so not sure what your point is really? In UK 1 million people going about their normal day were injected with it, that's all I know from researching.
His history suggests allergies and asthma have been with him since at least 2003 through every team he's raced for according to him and to some extent revealed by Fancy Bears anyway. My argument is simply "Why go to all that bother" if all you wanted was an injection of corticosteroids before the Tour you simply need a dodgy ankle like David Millar and many riders said they would get their team doctor to fake to get a TUE within the Tour. Crikey Wiggins even raced for Cofidis where Millar claims to have been injected corticosteroids using a fake ankle injury TUE.
 
Re: Re:

samhocking said:
vedrafjord said:
In case you think I'm bullshitting:



And how my 260 reading compared against the average male in their mid-20's, which I was at the time:


And yet my treatment was in line with what Wiggins' French doctors got TUEs for earlier in his career (which is standard medical practise), but nothing like as serious as his British doctors got TUEs for when he suddenly became a Tour contender.
I'm not the one that needs convincing. Without his medical history, I have no idea if it's not justified based on your medical history so not sure what your point is really? In UK 1 million people going about their normal day were injected with it, that's all I know from researching.
His history suggests allergies and asthma have been with him since at least 2003 through every team he's raced for according to him and to some extent revealed by Fancy Bears anyway. My argument is simply "Why go to all that bother" if all you wanted was an injection of corticosteroids before the Tour you simply need a dodgy ankle like David Millar and many riders said they would get their team doctor to fake to get a TUE within the Tour. Crikey Wiggins even raced for Cofidis where Millar claims to have been injected corticosteroids using a fake ankle injury TUE.
sam...what you don't know from your researching is how bad their (the 1 million) symptoms were...I'm imagining they may also have been off (not as strenuous as cylcing up the alps) work as well...

not wiggins though...present and correct at work and ripping up the peloton with his 'condition' ;)
 
Jul 5, 2009
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As an asthma sufferer, I just wanted to put out there that it's not an on/off disease where you are either breathing or near death. The vast majority of the time for me, it's a tightness in the chest with a bit of coughing. A small dose of Salbutamol and I'm as right as rain. Happens too often and I start taking an inhaled corticosteroid for several days until everything is back on track.

Now the heavy stuff... I've never needed any even with a really bad, go to hospital, attack because I responded to high doses of Salbutamol. Wait a few hours and go home with a plan to take inhaled corticosteroids twice a day for a few weeks before tapering.

My four year old on the other hand... Twice now he hasn't responded to Salbutamol and went to hospital. That's the only time I've seen the kind of stuff Wiggins was taking. Five puffs of the inhaler every few minutes to try and right the ship was the first step. This was followed by an injected systemic steroid (can't remember if it was Triamcinilone) followed by some orally ingested ones over the next day. A stay in hospital was required until there are no signs of asthma.

The thought of taking Triamcinilone or whatever as a preventative is at complete odds with my experience with asthma and how it's treated. It feels like a very weird way to PREVENT asthma, when it's used to TREAT dangerous, severe cases. It's so very analogous to grabbing a sledgehammer to open a peanut. Yeah, I guess it'll work but...

John Swanson
 
The TUEs for Triamcinolone are not to treat asthma though? They appear to exist because Wiggins was not responding to maximial therapy when exposed to timothy grass pollen in the RAST test performed by Dr Simon Hargreaves. As I keep saying, forget Freeman, he has nothing to do with it other Wiggins claims he passed on Hargreaves RAST and Endoscopy report to UCI with the TUE application and we assume, injected Wiggins. The key information missing from Fancy Bears leak are 8 attached documents, some from Hargreaves that belong to each TUE application as supporting evidence. Until you see those it's impossible to determine guilt or innocence really medically and why the best argument is simply one about suspicious timing. However, those million patients treated with Triamcinolone back then would have taken it when not responding to maximum therapy, but needed guaranteed freedom from the allergy during important life events. Most of those million are students taking exams, people getting married, expeditions etc where you simply want to guarantee allergy-free few weeks. My Dad was one who got his annual injection of Triamcinolone in May/June and that would last him the worst of the summer hayfever season. That's when we lived in Cornwall. In midlands where he is now he no longer suffers from it other than a few days of streaming that he copes with using maximum therapy over the counter.
 
Mar 7, 2017
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samhocking said:
The TUEs for Triamcinolone are not to treat asthma though? They appear to exist because Wiggins was not responding to maximial therapy when exposed to timothy grass pollen in the RAST test performed by Dr Simon Hargreaves. As I keep saying, forget Freeman, he has nothing to do with it other Wiggins claims he passed on Hargreaves RAST and Endoscopy report to UCI with the TUE application and we assume, injected Wiggins. The key information missing from Fancy Bears leak are 8 attached documents, some from Hargreaves that belong to each TUE application as supporting evidence. Until you see those it's impossible to determine guilt or innocence really medically and why the best argument is simply one about suspicious timing. However, those million patients treated with Triamcinolone back then would have taken it when not responding to maximum therapy, but needed guaranteed freedom from the allergy during important life events. Most of those million are students taking exams, people getting married, expeditions etc where you simply want to guarantee allergy-free few weeks. My Dad was one who got his annual injection of Triamcinolone in May/June and that would last him the worst of the summer hayfever season. That's when we lived in Cornwall. In midlands where he is now he no longer suffers from it other than a few days of streaming that he copes with using maximum therapy over the counter.
Forget Freeman, eh Sam, he had nothing to with it

Forget the facts as well, how very convenient

But your revisionist history, rinse and repeat please! :rolleyes:

"A Team Sky doctor prevented Dr Richard Freeman from applying for a fourth therapeutic exemption order (TUE) for Bradley Wiggins, just days before the 2013 Tour of Britain, a race he won.

It is reported in today’s Sunday Times that Alan Farrell, another doctor at Sky, changed the team’s password for the World Anti-Doping Agency’s ADAMS (anti-doping administration and management system) – the program where doctors formally request a TUE – after hearing that Freeman was wanting to apply for a Wiggins TUE before the national tour; it is not known what substance Freeman was hoping to be permitted to give Wiggins.

A new password for ADAMS is required every six months, and three days before the Tour of Britain, Farrell changed Sky’s, without informing Freeman. Farrell explained why he refused to notify Freeman of the password to fellow doctor Richard Usher, who was Sky’s medic at the upcoming race. Usher was supportive of Farrell’s actions."

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/sky-doctor-prevented-richard-freeman-applying-fourth-bradley-wiggins-tue-318094
 
Feb 5, 2018
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samhocking said:
The TUEs for Triamcinolone are not to treat asthma though? They appear to exist because Wiggins was not responding to maximial therapy when exposed to timothy grass pollen in the RAST test performed by Dr Simon Hargreaves. As I keep saying, forget Freeman, he has nothing to do with it other Wiggins claims he passed on Hargreaves RAST and Endoscopy report to UCI with the TUE application and we assume, injected Wiggins. The key information missing from Fancy Bears leak are 8 attached documents, some from Hargreaves that belong to each TUE application as supporting evidence. Until you see those it's impossible to determine guilt or innocence really medically and why the best argument is simply one about suspicious timing. However, those million patients treated with Triamcinolone back then would have taken it when not responding to maximum therapy, but needed guaranteed freedom from the allergy during important life events. Most of those million are students taking exams, people getting married, expeditions etc where you simply want to guarantee allergy-free few weeks. My Dad was one who got his annual injection of Triamcinolone in May/June and that would last him the worst of the summer hayfever season. That's when we lived in Cornwall. In midlands where he is now he no longer suffers from it other than a few days of streaming that he copes with using maximum therapy over the counter.
wrong Sam, sky actually made it about prevention of asthma also; here s a quote for you; direct from the horses mouth himself (DB) to the DCMS;
''Triamcinolone is a synthetic glucocorticosteroid that can be given by a number of different routes
e.g. orally, through inhalation, topically as a cream or by injection. Injections can be given
subcutaneously, intra- articular (into joints), intramuscular or around a tendon. It can be used to
treat a number of different inflammatory or allergenic conditions and in the prevention of asthma
.''

(and it is this use of the drug as preventive medicine that many doctors (and the committee) believe is both, far in excess of what is required (a sledgehammer to crack a nut) and suspicious in that the real motive would appear to be the fat burning/weight loss/increased power to weight ratio benefits its use confers to an athlete/rider.

the sky letter also goes on to state that the reports of 70 ampoules of Triamcinalone being ordered by sky was incorrect, it was actually 55 ampoules.

this is from a 9 page letter forming part of skys written evidence to the DCMS, available on this webpage if you are interested
http://data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/culture-media-and-sport-committee/combatting-doping-in-sport/written/48767.pdf

also very interesting reads here,
http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/culture-media-and-sport-committee/news-parliament-2015/combatting-doping-in-sport-correspondence-published-16-17/
 
I suggest you read the TUE notes 53x11. Nowhere does Freeman or Hargreaves suggest the TUE is for Asthma, neither has Wiggins. DCMS simply got it wrong i'm afraid believing it's for asthma, like many other details too. Clearly they didn't even look at the TUE document itself as it's not even in the report.

2011 TUE
life long history of upper respiratory and occular allergy.
known allergy to grass pollen.symptoms nasal congestion/rhinorrhoea, eye
irritation/watering , dyspnoea. RAST test june 2011 allergy to grass pollen.ENT
specialist performed endoscopy nasal airway 2/7/11 confirmed diagnosis allergic
rhinits, and that is on maximal topical treatment > 3 years.
2012 TUE
life long allergy to pollen nasal congestion/rhinorrhoea
sneezing throat irritation, wheezing leading to dyspnoea eye watering runny nose
known allegy to grass pollen on maximal therapy> 3 years seen by ENT consultant
last year see tue application 30/5/11 and this year Mr Hargreaves15/5/12. on
maximal therapy flixotide inhaler ventolin clarityn avamys nasal spray opticrom eye
drops see letter attached. last year marked improvement with IM triamcinolone
injection.this year RAST to timothy grass elevated and endoscopy confirms allergy
nose.The surgeon recommends repeating the treatment this year which i'd like to do
when he returns from the dauphine.

2013 TUE
life long allergy to pollen nasal congestion/rhinorrhoea
sneezing throat irritation, wheezing leading to dyspnoea eye watering runny nose
known allegy to grass pollen on maximal therapy> 3 years seen by ENT consultant Mr
Hargreaves last year see tue application 30/5/11 and 15/5/12. on maximal therapy
flixotide inhaler ventolin clarityn avamys nasal spray opticrom eye drops. last year
marked improvement with IM triamcinolone injection.RAST to timothy grass elevated
and endoscopy in march 2013 confirms allergy changes in the nose.
I have an OPC letter from Mr Hargreaves ENT consultant 1/3/13 to attach
 
Wiggo's Package said:
samhocking said:
The TUEs for Triamcinolone are not to treat asthma though? They appear to exist because Wiggins was not responding to maximial therapy when exposed to timothy grass pollen in the RAST test performed by Dr Simon Hargreaves. As I keep saying, forget Freeman, he has nothing to do with it other Wiggins claims he passed on Hargreaves RAST and Endoscopy report to UCI with the TUE application and we assume, injected Wiggins. The key information missing from Fancy Bears leak are 8 attached documents, some from Hargreaves that belong to each TUE application as supporting evidence. Until you see those it's impossible to determine guilt or innocence really medically and why the best argument is simply one about suspicious timing. However, those million patients treated with Triamcinolone back then would have taken it when not responding to maximum therapy, but needed guaranteed freedom from the allergy during important life events. Most of those million are students taking exams, people getting married, expeditions etc where you simply want to guarantee allergy-free few weeks. My Dad was one who got his annual injection of Triamcinolone in May/June and that would last him the worst of the summer hayfever season. That's when we lived in Cornwall. In midlands where he is now he no longer suffers from it other than a few days of streaming that he copes with using maximum therapy over the counter.
Forget Freeman, eh Sam, he had nothing to with it

Forget the facts as well, how very convenient

But your revisionist history, rinse and repeat please! :rolleyes:

"A Team Sky doctor prevented Dr Richard Freeman from applying for a fourth therapeutic exemption order (TUE) for Bradley Wiggins, just days before the 2013 Tour of Britain, a race he won.

It is reported in today’s Sunday Times that Alan Farrell, another doctor at Sky, changed the team’s password for the World Anti-Doping Agency’s ADAMS (anti-doping administration and management system) – the program where doctors formally request a TUE – after hearing that Freeman was wanting to apply for a Wiggins TUE before the national tour; it is not known what substance Freeman was hoping to be permitted to give Wiggins.

A new password for ADAMS is required every six months, and three days before the Tour of Britain, Farrell changed Sky’s, without informing Freeman. Farrell explained why he refused to notify Freeman of the password to fellow doctor Richard Usher, who was Sky’s medic at the upcoming race. Usher was supportive of Farrell’s actions."

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/sky-doctor-prevented-richard-freeman-applying-fourth-bradley-wiggins-tue-318094
What allows Wiggins to be granted a TUE application via Freeman is Simon Hargreaves. It's in black and white on each TUE - no revision is needed. Each TUE, each year involves a RAST test on Wiggins by Simon Hargreaves at maximial therapy just before each Triamcinolone injection under TUE.

ENT specialist performed endoscopy nasal airway 2/7/11 confirmed diagnosis allergic
rhinits, and that is on maximal topical treatment > 3 years
The surgeon recommends repeating the treatment (Triamcinolone) this year which i'd like to do
when he returns from the dauphine
I have an OPC letter from Mr Hargreaves ENT consultant 1/3/13 to attach
Dr Simon Hargreaves RAST tests: 02/06/11, 15/05/12, 03/03/13

That is not Freeman's diagnosis, that is Hargreaves diagnosis. Hargreaves is the ENT specialist Wiggins visits each year at Bolton NHS who is advising Triamcinolone due to maximal treatment > 3 years not working after each RAST test.
 
Mar 7, 2017
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samhocking said:
Wiggo's Package said:
samhocking said:
The TUEs for Triamcinolone are not to treat asthma though? They appear to exist because Wiggins was not responding to maximial therapy when exposed to timothy grass pollen in the RAST test performed by Dr Simon Hargreaves. As I keep saying, forget Freeman, he has nothing to do with it other Wiggins claims he passed on Hargreaves RAST and Endoscopy report to UCI with the TUE application and we assume, injected Wiggins. The key information missing from Fancy Bears leak are 8 attached documents, some from Hargreaves that belong to each TUE application as supporting evidence. Until you see those it's impossible to determine guilt or innocence really medically and why the best argument is simply one about suspicious timing. However, those million patients treated with Triamcinolone back then would have taken it when not responding to maximum therapy, but needed guaranteed freedom from the allergy during important life events. Most of those million are students taking exams, people getting married, expeditions etc where you simply want to guarantee allergy-free few weeks. My Dad was one who got his annual injection of Triamcinolone in May/June and that would last him the worst of the summer hayfever season. That's when we lived in Cornwall. In midlands where he is now he no longer suffers from it other than a few days of streaming that he copes with using maximum therapy over the counter.
Forget Freeman, eh Sam, he had nothing to with it

Forget the facts as well, how very convenient

But your revisionist history, rinse and repeat please! :rolleyes:

"A Team Sky doctor prevented Dr Richard Freeman from applying for a fourth therapeutic exemption order (TUE) for Bradley Wiggins, just days before the 2013 Tour of Britain, a race he won.

It is reported in today’s Sunday Times that Alan Farrell, another doctor at Sky, changed the team’s password for the World Anti-Doping Agency’s ADAMS (anti-doping administration and management system) – the program where doctors formally request a TUE – after hearing that Freeman was wanting to apply for a Wiggins TUE before the national tour; it is not known what substance Freeman was hoping to be permitted to give Wiggins.

A new password for ADAMS is required every six months, and three days before the Tour of Britain, Farrell changed Sky’s, without informing Freeman. Farrell explained why he refused to notify Freeman of the password to fellow doctor Richard Usher, who was Sky’s medic at the upcoming race. Usher was supportive of Farrell’s actions."

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/sky-doctor-prevented-richard-freeman-applying-fourth-bradley-wiggins-tue-318094
What allows Wiggins to be granted a TUE application via Freeman is Simon Hargreaves. It's in black and white on each TUE - no revision is needed. Each TUE, each year involves a RAST test on Wiggins by Simon Hargreaves at maximial therapy just before each Triamcinolone injection under TUE.

ENT specialist performed endoscopy nasal airway 2/7/11 confirmed diagnosis allergic
rhinits, and that is on maximal topical treatment > 3 years
The surgeon recommends repeating the treatment (Triamcinolone) this year which i'd like to do
when he returns from the dauphine
I have an OPC letter from Mr Hargreaves ENT consultant 1/3/13 to attach
Dr Simon Hargreaves RAST tests: 02/06/11, 15/05/12, 03/03/13

That is not Freeman's diagnosis, that is Hargreaves diagnosis. Hargreaves is the ENT specialist Wiggins visits each year at Bolton NHS who is advising Triamcinolone due to maximal treatment > 3 years not working after each RAST test.
Bolton NHS...

...isn't that where Freeman worked before he joined Bolton FC and from there to Team Sky?


"Forget Freeman, he has nothing to do with it" :D
 
Feb 5, 2018
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samhocking said:
I suggest you read the TUE notes 53x11. Nowhere does Freeman or Hargreaves suggest the TUE is for Asthma, neither has Wiggins. DCMS simply got it wrong i'm afraid believing it's for asthma, like many other details too. Clearly they didn't even look at the TUE document itself as it's not even in the report.

2011 TUE
life long history of upper respiratory and occular allergy.
known allergy to grass pollen.symptoms nasal congestion/rhinorrhoea, eye
irritation/watering , dyspnoea. RAST test june 2011 allergy to grass pollen.ENT
specialist performed endoscopy nasal airway 2/7/11 confirmed diagnosis allergic
rhinits, and that is on maximal topical treatment > 3 years.
2012 TUE
life long allergy to pollen nasal congestion/rhinorrhoea
sneezing throat irritation, wheezing leading to dyspnoea eye watering runny nose
known allegy to grass pollen on maximal therapy> 3 years seen by ENT consultant
last year see tue application 30/5/11 and this year Mr Hargreaves15/5/12. on
maximal therapy flixotide inhaler ventolin clarityn avamys nasal spray opticrom eye
drops see letter attached. last year marked improvement with IM triamcinolone
injection.this year RAST to timothy grass elevated and endoscopy confirms allergy
nose.The surgeon recommends repeating the treatment this year which i'd like to do
when he returns from the dauphine.

2013 TUE
life long allergy to pollen nasal congestion/rhinorrhoea
sneezing throat irritation, wheezing leading to dyspnoea eye watering runny nose
known allegy to grass pollen on maximal therapy> 3 years seen by ENT consultant Mr
Hargreaves last year see tue application 30/5/11 and 15/5/12. on maximal therapy
flixotide inhaler ventolin clarityn avamys nasal spray opticrom eye drops. last year
marked improvement with IM triamcinolone injection.RAST to timothy grass elevated
and endoscopy in march 2013 confirms allergy changes in the nose.
I have an OPC letter from Mr Hargreaves ENT consultant 1/3/13 to attach
big lols. no sam im afraid thats not going to work. once more so - i never said wiggins claimed it prevented asthma, i did say that sky said it and it is in black and white, in evidence they submitted.
cf below; these are skys words, submitted with legal counsel and medical opinion in direct written evidence to the committee.

''Triamcinolone is a synthetic glucocorticosteroid that can be given by a number of different routes
e.g. orally, through inhalation, topically as a cream or by injection. Injections can be given
subcutaneously, intra- articular (into joints), intramuscular or around a tendon. It can be used to
treat a number of different inflammatory or allergenic conditions and in the prevention of asthma.''
 
Feb 5, 2018
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53*11 said:
samhocking said:
I suggest you read the TUE notes 53x11. Nowhere does Freeman or Hargreaves suggest the TUE is for Asthma, neither has Wiggins. DCMS simply got it wrong i'm afraid believing it's for asthma, like many other details too. Clearly they didn't even look at the TUE document itself as it's not even in the report.

and you know this how? this is a stretch even for you. (it does not automatically follow that you can say they did not read the TUE , judged solely from the absence of the TUE in their report)
 
Oct 5, 2010
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right - so its not for preventing asthma ... its for preventing an allergic reaction to grass pollen.

a reaction he was obviously suffering greatly from when he was winning the Dauphine ... :mad:


seriously - trying to move the deck chairs around doesnt change the boat going down.
 
Wiggo's Package said:
samhocking said:
Wiggo's Package said:
samhocking said:
The TUEs for Triamcinolone are not to treat asthma though? They appear to exist because Wiggins was not responding to maximial therapy when exposed to timothy grass pollen in the RAST test performed by Dr Simon Hargreaves. As I keep saying, forget Freeman, he has nothing to do with it other Wiggins claims he passed on Hargreaves RAST and Endoscopy report to UCI with the TUE application and we assume, injected Wiggins. The key information missing from Fancy Bears leak are 8 attached documents, some from Hargreaves that belong to each TUE application as supporting evidence. Until you see those it's impossible to determine guilt or innocence really medically and why the best argument is simply one about suspicious timing. However, those million patients treated with Triamcinolone back then would have taken it when not responding to maximum therapy, but needed guaranteed freedom from the allergy during important life events. Most of those million are students taking exams, people getting married, expeditions etc where you simply want to guarantee allergy-free few weeks. My Dad was one who got his annual injection of Triamcinolone in May/June and that would last him the worst of the summer hayfever season. That's when we lived in Cornwall. In midlands where he is now he no longer suffers from it other than a few days of streaming that he copes with using maximum therapy over the counter.
Forget Freeman, eh Sam, he had nothing to with it

Forget the facts as well, how very convenient

But your revisionist history, rinse and repeat please! :rolleyes:

"A Team Sky doctor prevented Dr Richard Freeman from applying for a fourth therapeutic exemption order (TUE) for Bradley Wiggins, just days before the 2013 Tour of Britain, a race he won.

It is reported in today’s Sunday Times that Alan Farrell, another doctor at Sky, changed the team’s password for the World Anti-Doping Agency’s ADAMS (anti-doping administration and management system) – the program where doctors formally request a TUE – after hearing that Freeman was wanting to apply for a Wiggins TUE before the national tour; it is not known what substance Freeman was hoping to be permitted to give Wiggins.

A new password for ADAMS is required every six months, and three days before the Tour of Britain, Farrell changed Sky’s, without informing Freeman. Farrell explained why he refused to notify Freeman of the password to fellow doctor Richard Usher, who was Sky’s medic at the upcoming race. Usher was supportive of Farrell’s actions."

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/sky-doctor-prevented-richard-freeman-applying-fourth-bradley-wiggins-tue-318094
What allows Wiggins to be granted a TUE application via Freeman is Simon Hargreaves. It's in black and white on each TUE - no revision is needed. Each TUE, each year involves a RAST test on Wiggins by Simon Hargreaves at maximial therapy just before each Triamcinolone injection under TUE.

ENT specialist performed endoscopy nasal airway 2/7/11 confirmed diagnosis allergic
rhinits, and that is on maximal topical treatment > 3 years
The surgeon recommends repeating the treatment (Triamcinolone) this year which i'd like to do
when he returns from the dauphine
I have an OPC letter from Mr Hargreaves ENT consultant 1/3/13 to attach
Dr Simon Hargreaves RAST tests: 02/06/11, 15/05/12, 03/03/13

That is not Freeman's diagnosis, that is Hargreaves diagnosis. Hargreaves is the ENT specialist Wiggins visits each year at Bolton NHS who is advising Triamcinolone due to maximal treatment > 3 years not working after each RAST test.
Bolton NHS...

...isn't that where Freeman worked before he joined Bolton FC and from there to Team Sky?


"Forget Freeman, he has nothing to do with it" :D
Freeman was at East Lancs NHS 2008 to 2010 which was his last full-time position before joining BC/Sky. Bolton FC was long before Sky in 2000-2001 part time and then 2002-2008 full-time so much earlier in his career after he switched from GP to Sports Medicine. He did used to Supervise UK Sport Doping Control tests on behalf of the FA though 1994 to 1996 (Pre- 2004 when WADA was created obviously) and did various consultancy stuff for NHS & Golf etc too.
I would imagine there's only a handful of ENT specialists in Lancs/Bolton NHS as very close to each other, so would imagine Freeman knew of Hargreaves perhaps being only 20 miles away.
 

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