Wiggins' Discusses Lance and Landis

[Benotti69]

Thats the one I pulled out on the previous page. There is a big difference between shouting down a cyclist who has been caught and sanction, and one who has had rumours of doping.

oh come on! rumours? if someone in the company is doing half the things pharmastrong got up to and we had former employees saying it you would need to be stupid to think they are only rumours and nothing more.

 

[ultimobici]

Thats the one I pulled out on the previous page. There is a big difference between shouting down a cyclist who has been caught and sanction, and one who has had rumours of doping.

Exactly. If by a miracle Armstrong gets off, you can be sure that he'll be paying his detractors back in spades. Far better to play it neutral until you know which way the wind is actually blowing. I realise that all most of us will really settle for is something in the vein of what Wiggins said in 2007. But he can't be that overt by a long stretch.

 

[andy1234]

why thank you very much an i notice a rise back to a normal level in his hemoglobin near the end of a week grueling race.

rest assured chuffer, the has been jerked back in.

Don't act like you know what those figures actually mean, because you don't....
Of course, if you are confident enough to start an in depth discussion on the subject, Im alll ears....

 

[andy1234]

especially if they are using illegal drugs and introducing others in the company to these drugs, defrauding the company, cheating to make more money than other employees, lying etc, but be careful the CEO might be in on it.

If someone was doing all this and jepordising the future of the company you would need to be a big a$$h@le to keep your mouth shut. maybe that's you wanting to be that sh!thead

Innocent or guilty is not about what you know, its about what you can prove.
WTF can Wiggins prove?

Simple enough for you sh!thead ?

 

[Benotti69]

Innocent or guilty is not about what you know, its about what you can prove.
WTF can Wiggins prove?

Simple enough for you sh!thead ?

wigans proved he's a d!ckhe@d.

as for proof, he's heard it all out of JVs mouth. what proof do you want him to have, holding the blood bag on a rest day while discussing the various merits of american beer versus english lager?

feds seem to think it is simple.

 

[roundabout]

Innocent or guilty is not about what you know, its about what you can prove.
WTF can Wiggins prove?

Simple enough for you sh!thead ?

So what's the difference from 2007 other than Wigans now riding shoulder to shoulder with people who he thought were doping in 2007 instead of 30 minutes back in the bus?

 

[Chuffy]

I like his suggestion of making passport values public. More scrutiny can only improve it, whatever your views on it's current validity.

 

[euanli]

oh come on! rumours? if someone in the company is doing half the things pharmastrong got up to and we had former employees saying it you would need to be stupid to think they are only rumours and nothing more.

Did Benson have any hard evidence to present to Wiggins to comment on? The Federal investigation is still going on and no information has been presented. Armstrong is still to be sanctioned. Wiggins is playing it safe and trying to be tactful. Trying to be.

You say he knows it from Vaughters, but that is still nothing hard thats out there to be presented.

The difference between Wiggins now and the one in 2005-2007 is that he is not commenting on someone who has been sanctioned.

 

[Benotti69]

I like his suggestion of making passport values public. More scrutiny can only improve it, whatever your views on it's current validity.

blood passport has proven to be a load of BS. Frei proved that with his comments about micro dosing and a litre of water.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

Innocent or guilty is not about what you know, its about what you can prove.
WTF can Wiggins prove?

Simple enough for you sh!thead ?

its more about how one defines proof sh*thead ;-)

for armstrong defenders would only be a positive test that they actually agree with, and don't pay or swindle their way out of, and a confession.

anything else is apparently "hearsay" from "bitter liars" and labs not storing samples properly etc.

It is clever shifting of goalposts to "outright undeniable 100% facts" from "balance of probability suggested by the evidence"

and, as this investigation will show - sworn eye witness testimony is considered as actual evidence.

 

[euanli]

So what's the difference from 2007 other than Wigans now riding shoulder to shoulder with people who he thought were doping in 2007 instead of 30 minutes back in the bus?

I would assume this is part of it. The least he needs is trying to move up through the pelaton to find every time he comes across a Radioshack rider the make it hard for him to get past. Or suddenly the Radioshack car won't move for him.

 

[Benotti69]

Did Benson have any hard evidence to present to Wiggins to comment on? The Federal investigation is still going on and no information has been presented. Armstrong is still to be sanctioned. Wiggins is playing it safe and trying to be tactful. Trying to be.

yeah and the 5700 words in a mag like SI means this is all a fluff over very little.

lets ignore the last 7 months of allegations without nothing more than weak defense of lies like 'never tested positive', 'most tested athlete in history', 'credibility' and 'done too much good...' etc try and convince others

lets ignore the books of David Walsh/Pierre ballester

lets ignore the hisotry of recent modern day cyclists testing positive.

lets ignore the history of the sports abuse of PEDs

lets just bury our heads in the sand as it all just nasty rumours.

 

[euanli]

I doubt he had read the SI article at the time of the interview. Again, until Armstrong is convicted or sanctioned Wiggins cannot say anything negative as there will be consequences.

Do you expect Wiggins to be shouting down Contador?

 

[roundabout]

I would assume this is part of it. The least he needs is trying to move up through the pelaton to find every time he comes across a Radioshack rider the make it hard for him to get past. Or suddenly the Radioshack car won't move for him.

Nah, IMO the only thing holding Wiggins back from being honest is his own jump in performance from a gruppetto dweller to finishing within a few seconds of one of the biggest dopers in cycling within a few years.

 

[andy1234]

its more about how one defines proof sh*thead ;-)

for armstrong defenders would only be a positive test that they actually agree with, and don't pay or swindle their way out of, and a confession.

anything else is apparently "hearsay" from "bitter liars" and labs not storing samples properly etc.

It is clever shifting of goalposts to "outright undeniable 100% facts" from "balance of probability suggested by the evidence"

and, as this investigation will show - sworn eye witness testimony is considered as actual evidence.

I will ask the question again, WTF can wiggins prove?
Until the powers that be throw the book at Armstrong, hes going to sit on the fence. Its the right strategy.

 

[Ferminal]

I doubt he had read the SI article at the time of the interview. Again, until Armstrong is convicted or sanctioned Wiggins cannot say anything negative as there will be consequences.

Do you expect Wiggins to be shouting down Contador?

I agree - the best thing Wiggins could have said was "No comment, waiting to see what the investigation brings". Instead he went on a spiel about how unlikely it thinks that Lance cheated, something which strongly conflicts with his opinion circa 2007.

I will ask the question again, WTF can wiggins prove?
Until the powers that be throw the book at Armstrong, hes going to sit on the fence. Its the right strategy.

If he was sitting on the fence he wouldn't have commented, he commented and all were pro-Armstrong/anti-Landis.

Wiggins can't prove that Lance was the most tested in 2009-2010 (but we can disprove it) but he said it...

 

[andy1234]

yeah and the 5700 words in a mag like SI means this is all a fluff over very little.

lets ignore the last 7 months of allegations without nothing more than weak defense of lies like 'never tested positive', 'most tested athlete in history', 'credibility' and 'done too much good...' etc try and convince others

lets ignore the books of David Walsh/Pierre ballester

lets ignore the hisotry of recent modern day cyclists testing positive.

lets ignore the history of the sports abuse of PEDs

lets just bury our heads in the sand as it all just nasty rumours.

Or, leave it up to a court of law to decide.

 

[Benotti69]

Or, leave it up to a court of law to decide.

and in the mean time the clinic will continue to discuss, dissect, debate, argue, dispute, consider, chew over, mull over, ponder, revolve, deliberate, contemplate, muse, meditate and pass judgement

 

[euanli]

If he was sitting on the fence he wouldn't have commented, he commented and all were pro-Armstrong/anti-Landis.

unfortunately I don't think he is capable of a no comment and balls'd it up. then again we are reading an edited interview. who knows what else was said.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Don't put yourself down, some of the things said around here are f***ing hilarious.

I want everyone who has a suspicion or doubt about the credibility of a work colleague (regardless of evidence, and before a court of law decides) to go in to work today and tell EVERYONE who will listen.
Go on, don't be selfish, don't worry about what the consequences might be, be brave!
Report back when you have finished and let me know how you get on....

Shiela burst in to tears and admitted she took home some post-it-notes.

Seriously - if someone asked me what I thought of a colleague who (in your analogy of sales) has access to the cash, the cash goes missing, their statements are shown to be lies, they live in a huge house and have a load of cars, intimidate anyone who questions them and are currently being investigated by law enforcement......... yeah, I would have no problem saying they were the thief.

 

[Benotti69]

Shiela burst in to tears and admitted she took home some post-it-notes.

Seriously - if someone asked me what I thought of a colleague who (in your analogy of sales) has access to the cash, the cash goes missing, their statements are shown to be lies, they live in a huge house and have a load of cars, intimidate anyone who questions them and are currently being investigated by law enforcement......... yeah, I would have no problem saying they were the thief.

only 21 posts after mine and somebody else puts it as succinctly as your truly.


actually a wee bit better than my response

 

[MD FACG FACP]

The old most tested athlete in the world line. We know from USADA documents Kirtsin Armstrong was test more than Lance. Michael Phelps was tested Almost twice as much as Lance.

His spin really is getting old.

 

[blackcat]

Wigans actually drew 2 all with Arsenal a month back. he gotts2be pleezed

 

[Boeing]

I initially agreed with Wiggins but then he started the armstrong crap and I lost all respect I had for him very quickly.

so you don't respect people who have a different opinion than you? or who don't like what you like?

clearly

 

[andy1234]

Shiela burst in to tears and admitted she took home some post-it-notes.

Seriously - if someone asked me what I thought of a colleague who (in your analogy of sales) has access to the cash, the cash goes missing, their statements are shown to be lies, they live in a huge house and have a load of cars, intimidate anyone who questions them and are currently being investigated by law enforcement......... yeah, I would have no problem saying they were the thief.

Sheila deserves eveything she gets.
Mail Wiggins and let him see the example you are setting

BTW the sales analogy wasn't mine.