Wiggins Discussion thread.

[Mambo95]

All the top 5 finishers in the tour had their whole teams working for them in GC this could be a coincident but I would tend to think it plays a big part.

Yet, none had much mountain support either. The Schlecks had each other and Voeckler had Rolland, but that was about it.

 

[uphillstruggle]

Yet, none had much mountain support either. The Schlecks had each other and Voeckler had Rolland, but that was about it.

GC support is not only about the climbs and that's my point you cant just leave your GC man to look after themselves. The shlecks had a man each at least detailed to protect them on the flats. Europcar spent days protecting the jersey (not just Rolland). And Monfort's ride on the Galibier stage was one of the rides of the tour.

 

[Midnightfright]

GC support is not only about the climbs and that's my point you cant just leave your GC man to look after themselves. The shlecks had a man each at least detailed to protect them on the flats. Europcar spent days protecting the jersey (not just Rolland). And Monfort's ride on the Galibier stage was one of the rides of the tour.

I think its very unlikely he's going to be defending the jersey at the tour or in a position to have his team set the pace. But obviously he would want atleast one guy protecting him on the flats. I think Cav would be more likely to feel the fallout as u would imagine he would have atleast 2-3 less riders on a flat stage to leadout him out/pull back the break. I think having Greenedge there will be a huge boost as the set up of there team requires them to compete in the sprints so they could be forced to help bring breaks back. my main worry is having EBH in full domestique mode. I would avoid this at all costs he could surely do the Giro where he would get over climbs almost all sprinters wouldn't and could win a good few stages.

 

[uphillstruggle]

I think its very unlikely he's going to be defending the jersey at the tour or in a position to have his team set the pace. But obviously he would want atleast one guy protecting him on the flats. I think Cav would be more likely to feel the fallout as u would imagine he would have atleast 2-3 less riders on a flat stage to leadout him out/pull back the break. I think having Greenedge there will be a huge boost as the set up of there team requires them to compete in the sprints so they could be forced to help bring breaks back. my main worry is having EBH in full domestique mode. I would avoid this at all costs he could surely do the Giro where he would get over climbs almost all sprinters wouldn't and could win a good few stages.

The negatives are that guys like Froome, EBH, Svitsov, Thomas will be working every day in the mountains/hills and on the flat sages due to them being all rounders. This will surely mean they are less effective at their tasks, especially as the races goes on. This will mean Wiggins will have less people to set a tempo for him that he obviously needs, so he'll have to do it himself or just hope the race pans out favourable to him a la 2009 tour de France.

The upshot from an entertainment perspective is that Cav will be more likely to fend for himself in the closing kilometres.

 

[Midnightfright]

The negatives are that guys like Froome, EBH, Svitsov, Thomas will be working every day in the mountains/hills and on the flat sages due to them being all rounders. This will surely mean they are less effective at their tasks, especially as the races goes on. This will mean Wiggins will have less people to set a tempo for him that he obviously needs, so he'll have to do it himself or just hope the race pans out favourable to him a la 2009 tour de France.

The upshot from an entertainment perspective is that Cav will be more likely to fend for himself in the closing kilometres.

That's my point I don't think Wiggins nessecarily needs people with him all the time. he rides at his own pace on the big climbs anyway and isn't likely to need his team to force the pace very often so even 1 guy helping would be more than enough of most stages I do feel Cav will be the one who will suffer

 

[just some guy]

Or maybe the deal is Tour 2012 6 riders brad 3 riders Cav - so no massive train.

Cav drops out after 2 weeks, Brad goes all for the tour and then repays Cav with a great team ride in the RR at the Olympics.

 

[Captain_Cavman]

Or maybe the deal is Tour 2012 6 riders brad 3 riders Cav - so no massive train.

Cav drops out after 2 weeks, Brad goes all for the tour and then repays Cav with a great team ride in the RR at the Olympics.

This is the one. Cavendish gets two to look after him. There is no chasing down of breaks for 150km. The rest work for Wiggins but includes guys who can pilot Cavendish in a bunch sprint, e.g. EBH or Thomas if he rides.

But of course, riders can fulfil a range of roles within a team, so it won't be as rigid as that.

 

[hatcher]

If they've got Cav it would be ridiculous for them to not chase breaks down. That doesn't mean they have to put the whole team on the front HTC/GB style for the entire stage; it could be one strong rouleur helping the other sprint teams who are no longer facing HTC. Unlike HTC, Sky will have a second card to play in the Tour so teams can't call their bluff quite so easily.

If you offered Sky 5 stage wins and no podium I bet they'd grab it.

 

[Midnightfright]

If they've got Cav it would be ridiculous for them to not chase breaks down. That doesn't mean they have to put the whole team on the front HTC/GB style for the entire stage; it could be one strong rouleur helping the other sprint teams who are no longer facing HTC. Unlike HTC, Sky will have a second card to play in the Tour so teams can't call their bluff quite so easily.

If you offered Sky 5 stage wins and no podium I bet they'd grab it.

And like I said earlier with Greenedge there they will be desperate for sprints also so will surely help working hard to get breaks back.

 

[just some guy]

If they've got Cav it would be ridiculous for them to not chase breaks down. That doesn't mean they have to put the whole team on the front HTC/GB style for the entire stage; it could be one strong rouleur helping the other sprint teams who are no longer facing HTC. Unlike HTC, Sky will have a second card to play in the Tour so teams can't call their bluff quite so easily.

If you offered Sky 5 stage wins and no podium I bet they'd grab it.

I bet they would take an Olympic Gold in the RR above everything except winning the whole show and that will be at the same level.

 

[Angliru]

And why can't a team do that and support a sprinter?

People keep saying that you can't support a sprinter and a GC rider. Yet at this year's Tour Garmin got a top ten, three in the top 20, supported a sprinter (who won a stage) with a lead out, won the team competition, won the TTT, had the yellow jersey for a week and still sent Hushovd off for two stage wins. (And they lost Zabriskie half way through).

...but if one or both fail in their chosen objectives, I can quite easily see the fingerpointing after the Tour, laying blame on their perceived lack of support as the reason for their failures/disappointing results. Sky is going to have much loftier ambitions with riders that are capable of achieving them, especially Cavendish. Wiggins less so but with the proper support, maybe (podium).

 

[uphillstruggle]

That's my point I don't think Wiggins nessecarily needs people with him all the time. he rides at his own pace on the big climbs anyway and isn't likely to need his team to force the pace very often so even 1 guy helping would be more than enough of most stages I do feel Cav will be the one who will suffer

I would have agreed with you that Wiggins can look after himself before this year but if you look at what happened in the Dauphine and the Vuelta (Wiggins' two best GC performances this year) the team did a lot of work to protect him. Now I know it's unlikely he will be in yellow at any point at the tour but he seems to do well when the tempo is high and steady the best way to ensure that is to have your team do it. Climbers like, say, Basso, Sanchez or F. Shleck will not let Wiggins get away with another 2009 hang on effort now they know his potential.

I agree that Cav will suffer a lot with this set up. He has just lost three men at least from the team her had at HTC

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I've got more respect for Wiggins Worlds performance than his Vuelta.

In the Vuelta, in the end, his selfishness cost Froome the win. In copenhagen, his selflessness, made Cavendish world champion

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Do we know if it was Wiggins who caused that with Froome though? Did Wiggins specifically demand Froome do the work for him whilst in the red jersey, or was it the team car either clinging too long to the original plan or not having faith in the completely untested Froome?

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Do we know if it was Wiggins who caused that with Froome though? Did Wiggins specifically demand Froome do the work for him whilst in the red jersey, or was it the team car either clinging too long to the original plan or not having faith in the completely untested Froome?

Team sticking to the original plan, I'd have thought. It was a difficult call to make. Froome looked slightly stronger, generally, but was totally unproven over 1 week, never mind 3. At least Wiggins had proven himself before over 3 weeks. Wiggins was also very complementary of Froome throughout, the tone of which certainly not suggesting that he thought he was the boss.

I'd agree on his WC ride being more impressive, though. One of the rides of the year, that one.

 

[toestrap]

there's a lot of surmising going on about next years tour but it really does depend on the route and who Prudhomme would like to win. He altered the sprint competition to suite Cav, he may want another rider who is 'clean' in the public eye to win so may stick two big ITT in there that would give the Shlecks no chance.

 

[WorldsGreatest]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cycling/15081430.stm

 

[The Hitch]

What does Wiggins know about Contadors case that I dont?

With 80k of tts he might beat Schleck, and with lots of luck Basso Evans Samu. But only ban/ serious injury will stop the Great One from putting minutes into Wiggins.

On the first catergory 2 mtf.

 

[WorldsGreatest]

What does Wiggins know about Contadors case that I dont?

With 80k of tts he might beat Schleck, and with lots of luck Basso Evans Samu. But only ban/ serious injury will stop the Great One from putting minutes into Wiggins.

On the first catergory 2 mtf.

is there any confirmed news on the route? what's the tt situation?

 

[The Hitch]

is there any confirmed news on the route? what's the tt situation?

Sorry, i meant as in if there is 80km tts which there probably wont be.

All i think is confirmed about the route is the Liege prologue and the Ardennes stage.

rumours in this thread though http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=14696

 

[User Guide]

What does Wiggins know about Contadors case that I dont?

With 80k of tts he might beat Schleck, and with lots of luck Basso Evans Samu. But only ban/ serious injury will stop the Great One from putting minutes into Wiggins.

On the first catergory 2 mtf.

Wigans(why cant i even think his name without doing so in a smeagol accent btp) WILL beat Schleklet,Basso and Samu at next years TDF with now standard amount of TT kms (shortish TTT and 40ish kms of ITT, not sure about Evans tho,definetly wont beat Bertie(pending CAS)

 

[bobbins]

Wiggins is obviously still drunk from Sunday night. He won't win the Tour but has to say he thinks he can so that he can demand a team built around him and not Cav, if Cav goes to Sky and not BMC that is.

 

[El Pistolero]

Wiggins is obviously still drunk from Sunday night. He won't win the Tour but has to say he thinks he can so that he can demand a team built around him and not Cav, if Cav goes to Sky and not BMC that is.

Cav going to BMC would be a nightmare.

 

[The Hitch]

If Cav doesnt go to BMC a certain posters repeated "BMC will have the WC for 2008,9,10,11,12 and 13" prediction look down and out.

Wigans(why cant i even think his name without doing so in a smeagol accent btp) WILL beat Schleklet,Basso and Samu at next years TDF with now standard amount of TT kms (shortish TTT and 40ish kms of ITT, not sure about Evans tho,definetly wont beat Bertie(pending CAS)

Huh?

 

[daveinzambia]

Team sticking to the original plan, I'd have thought. It was a difficult call to make. Froome looked slightly stronger, generally, but was totally unproven over 1 week, never mind 3. At least Wiggins had proven himself before over 3 weeks. Wiggins was also very complementary of Froome throughout, the tone of which certainly not suggesting that he thought he was the boss.

I'd agree on his WC ride being more impressive, though. One of the rides of the year, that one.

and going over old ground again but Froome also made it clear that riding for Brad at various points probably helped his chances. Stopped him going off on crazy attacks as soon as his legs felt good (like he has done in the past).

I still think riding for Brad (and Brads experience during stages) helped him more than it hindered him over the race as a whole