Wiggins Discussion thread.

[King Of The Wolds]

Cav will ride the TdF, all the way to Paris with his usual target of green and stage wins. Wiggins will do likewise, with a podium place as his target. Absolutely no question whatsoever.

Wiggo gets Uran and Froome

Cav gets Cummings, Stannard, Sivtsov (if he's joining), EBH, Eisel, Swift

Enough there to give Brad support in the mountains and the TTT, enough to help pull back the breaks and enough to lead out Cav. Thomas will do the Classics and then concentrate on the Team Pursuit, I'd imagine.

 

[Catwhoorg]

I would aimagine Froome will be gvien leadership at one of the others, which could made him being a domestique for Brad tough.

I see the 9 man team broken up into thirds

3 for the GC (Wiggins, Uran, maybe Henao)
3 for Sprints (Cav, Bernie, and a leadout - Geraint if he rides the tour, maybe Swifty if not)

3 swing guys, mainly good motors to drive the peloton, or go for breakway stage wins (EBH, Flecha , maybe Stannard ). These can work for themselves or for the GC/Sprint group as needed.


No matter what next year is going to be a huge year for DB and the team management in terms of trying to keep a lot of very good talents happy with their race schedule.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Cav will ride the TdF, all the way to Paris with his usual target of green and stage wins. Wiggins will do likewise, with a podium place as his target. Absolutely no question whatsoever.

Wiggo gets Uran and Froome

Cav gets Cummings, Stannard, Sivtsov (if he's joining), EBH, Eisel, Swift

Enough there to give Brad support in the mountains and the TTT, enough to help pull back the breaks and enough to lead out Cav. Thomas will do the Classics and then concentrate on the Team Pursuit, I'd imagine.

Siutsou, if he joins, could do a good job for both.

 

[Mambo95]

Siutsou, if he joins, could do a good job for both.

So can Porte if he gets some form back.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

So can Porte if he gets some form back.

Froome too, actually. I see a plan.

 

[JRanton]

In terms of domestiques the squad is actually set up very well to target the dual goal of sprint wins and a good GC result. Lots of strong, versatile riders. Mick Rogers will definitely be included if he can find his 2010 form.

 

[Mambo95]

In terms of domestiques the squad is actually set up very well to target the dual goal of sprint wins and a good GC result. Lots of strong, versatile riders. Mick Rogers will definitely be included if he can find his 2010 form.

It's almost as though they've thought about it.

 

[The Hitch]

Sky dont really report the Tour either though.

And the worlds havs been portrayed in the British media like a London 2012 warm up. Yey Cav wins a gold now can he do it in London when it matters.

Taking that into account not riding the Tour, or not riding all of it would be worth it for a year.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Froome too, actually. I see a plan.

Froome, since his overnight transformation, can out-TT and out-climb Wiggins, so he should be the GC guy, allowing Wiggins to focus more on the TP.

 

[BillytheKid]

Sky dont really report the Tour either though.

And the worlds havs been portrayed in the British media like a London 2012 warm up. Yey Cav wins a gold now can he do it in London when it matters.

Taking that into account not riding the Tour, or not riding all of it would be worth it for a year.

Cycling will always remain a side-show in most english-speaking, main-stream media. I just turn the sound off to block out the dumbed-down commentary, but have a laugh at print media attempts at it. I also enjoy hyphenated adjectives.

 

[uphillstruggle]

I think they are capable of giving Wiggins a team to support him capably in the mountains, but he's not good enough to fend for himself (like Contador for example)

Nobody is good enough to fend for themselves any more. Contador was left out of position and without support in the mountains and he suffered for it big time.

I hope the the don't sent 6 riders to support Cav. If they only send 3-4 for Cav the psrints will be more open and the breaks will have more chance - better racing all round.

 

[Mambo95]

Nobody is good enough to fend for themselves any more.

Who did Evans have in the mountains?

The bottom line is Cav doesn't need a full-on HTC style team and Wiggins doesn't need some sort of US Postal replica. What they need is few people who can help both.

 

[BillytheKid]

Back on topic: GB team, especially Wiggins' efforts, made for a well-derseved win. US? A young team like that should have included Hincapie. Not unlike the Aussie goof with Renshaw. George is not in the same class, but could have been a "coach" on the road. Another genius decision from over here.

 

[Winterfold]

Eisel,

Something like that should provide good enough support to both.

How stupid of me - that's my other Barry kind of guy LOL So for most of the time Bernie will be protecting Cav and Wiggo then Wiggo has Froome and Uran on the hills and Cav has a leadout as good as anyone.

Really, it isnt very hard to see Sky putting together a team for both Brad and Cav and that will still get some other stages.

Cav will want to win on the Champs in the rainbow jersey surely? So will Prudhomme.

I dont think it is in compatible with the olympics road race. Box Hill is a gentle climb.

 

[Winterfold]

Cav will ride the TdF, all the way to Paris with his usual target of green and stage wins. Wiggins will do likewise, with a podium place as his target. Absolutely no question whatsoever.

Wiggo gets Uran and Froome

Cav gets Cummings, Stannard, Sivtsov (if he's joining), EBH, Eisel, Swift

Enough there to give Brad support in the mountains and the TTT, enough to help pull back the breaks and enough to lead out Cav. Thomas will do the Classics and then concentrate on the Team Pursuit, I'd imagine.

I should have just +1

 

[The Hitch]

Nobody is good enough to fend for themselves any more. Contador was left out of position and without support in the mountains and he suffered for it big time.

I hope the the don't sent 6 riders to support Cav. If they only send 3-4 for Cav the psrints will be more open and the breaks will have more chance - better racing all round.

What race are you talking about. Most people though Saxo had simply changed their jersey to pink in the 2011 Giro so invisable was his support and he won that by miles.

2009 he crushed the Tour with no team support.

Everyone knows a fully fit Contador would have destroyed the 2011 Tour, even if some of his most ardent haters try to pretend Cadel and Andy Schleck are just better than him.

 

[uphillstruggle]

Who did Evans have in the mountains?

The bottom line is Cav doesn't need a full-on HTC style team and Wiggins doesn't need some sort of US Postal replica. What they need is few people who can help both.

Evans had little help in the mountains, true. He was, however, very well looked after at all other times, at the front yet out of the wind, placed at a good position at the foot of climbs.

The problem Sky will have next year if they take Cav and Wiggo is fatigue. The domestiques are working twice as hard as those on other teams simply to put their men in position every day. Bmc were AT the front on the flat stages this year to protect Cadel but that is a lot less taxing than actually pulling back the break.

Frankly I see this as curtains for wiggins' GC hopes before we got to see what he could do which I personally think is a shame. I get more from seeing a Brit do well in GC than win sprints.

 

[Winterfold]

Froome, since his overnight transformation, can out-TT and out-climb Wiggins, so he should be the GC guy, allowing Wiggins to focus more on the TP.

Oooh you're so mean.

I think Froome will be on a tighter leash next year and unlikely to repeat the Vuelta.

He should have gone to Bjaarne . Actually cut the rolleyes, if the Hog is taking on the Schlecks then Froome on Saxo working for Contador would have been good. A Schleck/Hog win at the Tour would make me weep. Even after that epic attack on the Galibier stage this year, AS still descends like a wuss and does not take the pain on TTs, and I think the winner must be respectable in all areas.

Brad will podium the Tour next year, he was almost good enough on Angliru, and that is just a different level of insanity to Tour climbs, and the W/kg at the Tour will be believeable.

Sorry if that is bordering on Clinic talk.

 

[Winterfold]

Evans had little help in the mountains, true. He was, however, very well looked after at all other times, at the front yet out of the wind, placed at a good position at the foot of climbs.

The problem Sky will have next year if they take Cav and Wiggo is fatigue. The domestiques are working twice as hard as those on other teams simply to put their men in position every day. Bmc were AT the front on the flat stages this year to protect Cadel but that is a lot less taxing than actually pulling back the break.

Frankly I see this as curtains for wiggins' GC hopes before we got to see what he could do which I personally think is a shame. I get more from seeing a Brit do well in GC than win sprints.

Some good points there.

Particularly the last one, we have got used to Cav, but podiuming the Tour is a bigger prize than another 5 stage wins, even in the rainbow jersey.

I do however think that, at the Tour, the McEwan sneaky style Cav does not need much more than Bernie Eisel and then using his guile.

Watching repeats of the Worlds when Geraint goes back looking for him he clearly chooses to stick with Matt Goss, and maybe had already done that when Stannard and G 'dropped' him.

At the Vuelta, because of when itv started coverage I only ever saw the last hour or two when it was all kicking off - how much work were Sky doing for the first 2-3 hours when Froome and Wiggins were in the red jersey?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Froome's figures are more Clinic talk than Wiggins, since he came from doing nothing to out-TTing the guys who came 2nd and 3rd at the Worlds and outclimbing his team leader who has been 4th at the Tour before.

Wiggins podiuming the Tour after the 2011 he's had wouldn't surprise me and would inspire great kudos from a guy many (including at times myself) wrote off as a flash in the pan, who wouldn't be able to back it up on a properly tough route (the 2009 route only really had the one tough stage). Froome would make me roll my eyes and say "here we go again", especially if he did so for Riis!

 

[Mambo95]

Evans had little help in the mountains, true. He was, however, very well looked after at all other times, at the front yet out of the wind, placed at a good position at the foot of climbs.

And why can't a team do that and support a sprinter?

People keep saying that you can't support a sprinter and a GC rider. Yet at this year's Tour Garmin got a top ten, three in the top 20, supported a sprinter (who won a stage) with a lead out, won the team competition, won the TTT, had the yellow jersey for a week and still sent Hushovd off for two stage wins. (And they lost Zabriskie half way through).

 

[Winterfold]

Froome's figures are more Clinic talk than Wiggins, since he came from doing nothing to out-TTing the guys who came 2nd and 3rd at the Worlds and outclimbing his team leader who has been 4th at the Tour before.

Wiggins podiuming the Tour after the 2011 he's had wouldn't surprise me and would inspire great kudos from a guy many (including at times myself) wrote off as a flash in the pan, who wouldn't be able to back it up on a properly tough route (the 2009 route only really had the one tough stage). Froome would make me roll my eyes and say "here we go again", especially if he did so for Riis!

Im with you on most of that, except I have never found it that surprising that a best of his generation pursuiter can take that power and put it down on the road and in the mountains. Psychologically he was all over the place, but that is sorted through fair means. And has been.

I would think the biggest and best goals would be Cav Olympic RR gold and Brad Tour podium.

Something Brits can understand, unlike eg why is that guy world champion and won the last stage and come 163rd?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I think you can quite reasonably support a peripheral contender and sprinter, and it is this that Garmin did - they defended yellow on mostly flat stages, and had a GC rider who could limit his losses in the climbs, and could be allowed to sit on. The same happened with Vande Velde in '08 and to an extent Wiggins in '09, though he had Vande Velde killing himself for him.

However, once you come to start looking at contenders who aren't just aiming at a top 10 but aiming to win, it becomes harder. If you're going to win the race you're going to need to gain the time required to win that jersey (difficult if other teams' riders have domestiques and you don't, because said domestique can share the work of bringing you back if you attack), and then defend that jersey at some point too, probably in mountain stages. Unless you find yourself in the situation Evans did of being able to win the jersey the day before Paris (but even then he had to do some herculean turns on his own). Sky can use some engines who can help in both roles (Froome, Siutsou?), which softens the blow, as long as they don't overwork them to help Cavendish early in the race.

 

[Winterfold]

Hopefully Murdoch Jnr will get his cheque book out and there will be two 40km plus ITTs in 2012.

Mind you, Tony Martin might win in that case

 

[uphillstruggle]

And why can't a team do that and support a sprinter?

People keep saying that you can't support a sprinter and a GC rider. Yet at this year's Tour Garmin got a top ten, three in the top 20, supported a sprinter (who won a stage) with a lead out, won the team competition, won the TTT, had the yellow jersey for a week and still sent Hushovd off for two stage wins. (And they lost Zabriskie half way through).

When I say Evans had no support in the mountains I meant that his support wasn't there for very long, they were trying to pull back AS on the Galibier but weren't able to. the HTC team had all sat up long ago.

Cav is the best sprinter in the world so his team has the responsibility for doing most of the work to pull back breaks that takes away at least 4 riders plus Cav leaving 3 guys to help Wiggins stay out of trouble and in the mountains its just too much to ask. All the top 5 finishers in the tour had their whole teams working for them in GC this could be a coincident but I would tend to think it plays a big part.