Wiggins Discussion thread.

[ray j willings]

Nibs is way above Wiggo when it comes to the road. Remember the Giro Nibs kicked his *** and Wiggo lost his bottle big time.
Lets be honest. Wiggo is the worse tour winner ever. If Froome had big ones he would have won that tour. That was the worse and most tedious Tour I have ever seen and racing is so much better now we have Sky getting their *** kicked and Riders back on top form. I doubt Sky will win a GT for years to come and Wiggo will never podium again that's for sure.
Wiggo can TT better but he never won any TT of note until at Sky, very strange that a rider of his age all of a sudden starts winning TT's, for 10 years before Sky he was nowhere, remember the London TT at the tour is was all about FC . Wiggo has talent but had a very lucky year to win what he did.
No healthy rivals and a team mate letting him suck his wheel to victory...
peace ya all

 

[cineteq]

Lets be honest. Wiggo is the worse tour winner ever

Nah, this guy comes to mind.

 

[Dr. Juice]

Nah, this guy comes to mind.

Sastre put in a magnificent performance on Alpe d' Huez. His time was not bad either for this time and age ( sub 40 minutes). Then he went to the Vuelta and achieved another podium behind Contador and Leipheimer.
He won the Tour on merit. Couldn't repeat that level but that year he was really good.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Nibs is way above Wiggo when it comes to the road. Remember the Giro Nibs kicked his *** and Wiggo lost his bottle big time.
Lets be honest. Wiggo is the worse tour winner ever. If Froome had big ones he would have won that tour. That was the worse and most tedious Tour I have ever seen and racing is so much better now we have Sky getting their *** kicked and Riders back on top form. I doubt Sky will win a GT for years to come and Wiggo will never podium again that's for sure.
Wiggo can TT better but he never won any TT of note until at Sky, very strange that a rider of his age all of a sudden starts winning TT's, for 10 years before Sky he was nowhere, remember the London TT at the tour is was all about FC . Wiggo has talent but had a very lucky year to win what he did.
No healthy rivals and a team mate letting him suck his wheel to victory...
peace ya all

Prior to the World Time Trial Championship these were his principal palmares

Major wins
Grand Tours Tour de France General classification (2012)
2 individual stages (2012
Giro d'Italia 1 individual stage (2010)
(also Tour de France 2009 4thon GC, subsequently promoted to 3rd
and Vuelta a España 2011 3rd on GC)
2011
Stage races
Herald Sun Tour (2009)
Critérium du Dauphiné (2011, 2012)
Paris–Nice (2012)
Tour de Romandie (2012)
Tour of Britain (2013)
Tour of California (2014)
One-day races and Classics
National Time Trial Championships (2009, 2010, 2014)
National Road Race Championships (2011)
Medal record
Olympic Games 4 gold I silver 2 bronze (see below)
Road World Championships 2 silver
Track World Championships 6 gold 3silver 1 bronze
Commonwealth Games 4 silver
Competitor for Great Britain
Road bicycle racing
Olympic Games
Gold 2012 London Time trial
World Championships
Silver 2011 Copenhagen Time trial
Silver 2013 Florence Time trial
Track cycling
Olympic Games
Gold 2004 Athens Individual pursuit
Gold 2008 Beijing Team pursuit
Gold 2008 Beijing Individual pursuit
Silver 2004 Athens Team pursuit
Bronze 2000 Sydney Team pursuit
Bronze 2004 Athens Madison
World Championships
Gold 2003 Stuttgart Individual pursuit
Gold 2007 Palma de Mallorca Individual pursuit
Gold 2007 Palma de Mallorca Team pursuit
Gold 2008 Manchester Individual pursuit
Gold 2008 Manchester Team pursuit
Gold 2008 Manchester Madison
Silver 2000 Manchester Team pursuit
Silver 2001 Antwerp Team pursuit
Silver 2003 Stuttgart Team pursuit
Bronze 2002 Ballerup Team pursuit
Competitor for England
Track cycling
Commonwealth Games
Silver 1998 Kuala Lumpur Team pursuit
Silver 2002 Manchester Individual pursuit
Silver 2002 Manchester Team pursuit
Silver 2014 Glasgow Team pursuit



Those of you who think the road events are all will not be impressed. Anyone can see, however, how busy he was on the track, and with what success he rode. By your description of it, he had many lucky years.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Nibs is way above Wiggo when it comes to the road. Remember the Giro Nibs kicked his *** and Wiggo lost his bottle big time.
Lets be honest. Wiggo is the worse tour winner ever. If Froome had big ones he would have won that tour. That was the worse and most tedious Tour I have ever seen and racing is so much better now we have Sky getting their *** kicked and Riders back on top form. I doubt Sky will win a GT for years to come and Wiggo will never podium again that's for sure.
Wiggo can TT better but he never won any TT of note until at Sky, very strange that a rider of his age all of a sudden starts winning TT's, for 10 years before Sky he was nowhere, remember the London TT at the tour is was all about FC . Wiggo has talent but had a very lucky year to win what he did.
No healthy rivals and a team mate letting him suck his wheel to victory...
peace ya all

Oh this is going to be quoted in the future! To be honest yes Wiggins was quite lucky in 2012, however I believe he would have gone very close in 2011 too had he not crashed.

 

[samhocking]

Some people clearly don't understand what diversity means. Nibali is a great GT rider and just like Contador and Froome are very successful in the discipline. These days it's required to focus on one singe discipline if you want to win the same events multiple times. This is what drives them and there's nothing wrong with that. They will win more GTs than Wiggins and be better at them.

What I am saying is there's no rider in the Peloton who can, wants to, or is capable of switching from Tour winner one year to a classics contender the next, to stage racer the next, to World ITT Champion at will like that - NOBODY!

 

[Angliru]

Nah, this guy comes to mind.

A guy that has consistently over the course of his career been on or near the podium of grand tours, plus in the top ten of grand tour gc's, is the worst? Sastre is a worthy grand tour winner, snatching yellow on Alpe d'Huez no less in an emphatic attack and cementing it with a strong itt. He saved the race for his team with Andy dropping out of contention after booking earlier in the Tour and losing major time and Frank having no chance with his abysmal ability versus the clock and the final itt looming.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Sastre is a worthy grand tour winner, snatching yellow on Alpe d'Huez no less in an emphatic attack and cementing it with a strong itt.

But despite his stage wins and his mountains classification he never won a grand tour and he has no record at all in other disciplines, like Wiggins. You aren't reading what others like Sam Hocking write. If you are, you are ignoring it. I am happy to admire Sastre, but that's not the point.

(As has been pointed out to me, this is not literally correct. he did of course win the TdF but had no previous grand tour win).

 

[42x16ss]

Nah, this guy comes to mind.

No. Just no. His record as a super domestique (pre '06) and a team leader afterwards speaks for itself. And unlike Wigans, Sastre could always climb with the best except for robo-Basso and Ferrari engined Armstrong when they were in an aggressive mood - check the 2004 TdF.

Sastre top 10'd more GT's than LA started FFS...

 

[Angliru]

But despite his stage wins and his mountains classification he never won a grand tour and he has no record at all in other disciplines, like Wiggins. You aren't reading what others like Sam Hocking write. If you are, you are ignoring it. I am happy to admire Sastre, but that's not the point.

He won the Tour. He was one dimensional in that he only excelled in the grand tours. He's as worthy a grand tour winner as Wiggins or any of his contemporaries. And no I'm not at all familiar with Sam Hocking. Please enlighten me on what point I might be missing.

 

[nhowson]

Some people clearly don't understand what diversity means. Nibali is a great GT rider and just like Contador and Froome are very successful in the discipline. These days it's required to focus on one singe discipline if you want to win the same events multiple times. This is what drives them and there's nothing wrong with that. They will win more GTs than Wiggins and be better at them.

What I am saying is there's no rider in the Peloton who can, wants to, or is capable of switching from Tour winner one year to a classics contender the next, to stage racer the next, to World ITT Champion at will like that - NOBODY!

Angliru, Sam Hocking is this commenter.

Also, I believe it was meant that Sastre had never won a GT before winning the TdF.

 

[nhowson]

With wht seem to be the criteria for a " good tour winner" you'd have to say that Lucien Aimar is probably the worst. If someone who won a Tour could be called "worst"

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucien_Aimar#Major_Placings_and_awards

 

[wrinklyvet]

Angliru, Sam Hocking is this commenter.

Also, I believe it was meant that Sastre had never won a GT before winning the TdF.

Thanks for helping me out. Yes. I should have been clearer.

 

[damian13ster]

With wht seem to be the criteria for a " good tour winner" you'd have to say that Lucien Aimar is probably the worst. If someone who won a Tour could be called "worst"

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucien_Aimar#Major_Placings_and_awards

Apparently the criteria seems to be 'not a pure, one-dimensional climber = not a worthy Tour winner'

I respect Wiggins a lot, I love multi-dimensional- 'do it all' riders, and with his leadouts for Cav, TTing skills, really good climbing, very good on cobbles + tons of wins on track, Wiggins is one of the most multi-dimensional and succesful cyclist out there. Worthy Tour winner without a doubt in my mind

 

[elfed68]

Apparently the criteria seems to be 'not a pure, one-dimensional climber = not a worthy Tour winner'

I respect Wiggins a lot, I love multi-dimensional- 'do it all' riders, and with his leadouts for Cav, TTing skills, really good climbing, very good on cobbles + tons of wins on track, Wiggins is one of the most multi-dimensional and succesful cyclist out there. Worthy Tour winner without a doubt in my mind

It seems only pure climbers are deemed worthy on this forum.

 

[Miburo]

I'm talking about success across multiple disciplines - Road, Track, TT in Worlds, Olympic, World Cup & Pro Tour events. Nibali shows no such diversity.

He got a tour win handed to him and i don't think he would have gold in the olympics against a Martin in top shape. He was slightly injured. I don't care about track, is there any competition in that?

 

[elfed68]

He got a tour win handed to him and i don't think he would have gold in the olympics against a Martin in top shape. He was slightly injured. I don't care about track, is there any competition in that?

Yeah, just had to turn up didn't he...

 

[samhocking]

You win Minuro. Wiggins clearly can only win when everyone else in the peloton is ill, injured or not in the race! Nibali, is in fact, the only rider in the peloton to win across multiple disciplines and only wins against fit, healthy riders all on top form.

 

[Angliru]

But despite his stage wins and his mountains classification he never won a grand tour and he has no record at all in other disciplines, like Wiggins. You aren't reading what others like Sam Hocking write. If you are, you are ignoring it. I am happy to admire Sastre, but that's not the point.

(As has been pointed out to me, this is not literally correct. he did of course win the TdF but had no previous grand tour win).

My post was a direct response to cineteq's that Sastre was the worst Tour winner, nothing more. It had no relation to what Hocking posted. Honestly though, who says that a "worthy" Tour winner is only one that is well-rounded in all disciplines? If a rider is so dominant in the mountains that he can reach Paris in less time than his rivals, then he is a worthy winner. The same applies to a rider that is so dominant against the clock, limits their losses in the mountains and does the same. It's 3 weeks of racing. The cream rises to the top over that course of time.

 

[wrinklyvet]

I don't care about track, is there any competition in that?

Perhaps you should. Yes there is.

 

[cineteq]

My post was a direct response to cineteq's that Sastre was the worst Tour winner, nothing more. It had no relation to what Hocking posted. Honestly though, who says that a "worthy" Tour winner is only one that is well-rounded in all disciplines?

I still believe Sastre was "the worst" TdF winner in recent years. IMO, it was a cadeaux from Evans. What do you think of opening a thread: Sastre vs. Wiggins, which TdF victory was more worthy? Miburo, anyone?

 

[Netserk]

It's not about worthiness, it's about who's the better GT rider.

Sastre was a better GT rider during his career than Wiggins was in his. Wiggins is the worst rider (GT strength wise) to win the Tour in the modern era.

In the post-Armstrong era:

1st: Contador
2nd: Landis
3rd: Froome
4th: Nibali
5th: Evans
6th: Sastre
7th: Wiggins

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

Worthy...
Wiggins Tour win was the most invisible one...
The only time you saw him in the wind was when he tried to prepare some sprints for EBH and when Froome dropped him. Ah, and in the TT of course.
Not unworthy at all, and he would have won even if Froome had attacked him IMO. Too much time gain in the TT.

From that to declare Wiggins that Wiggins is so "diverse"...
Before his transformation to GT man he won the occasional prologue or TT. Not more. In 2012 then he won everything, even a sprint in the TdR. Since then it's been ITT and prologues, lesser stage races and the ITT WC. Contender in the classics? 1 good Roubaix...
Nibali since he's been mentioned is a contender in MSR, LBL and Lombardia. And a serious contender in LBL and Lombardia, while MSR really everything would have to fit.
Wiggins 9th PR is more like Nibali and MSR than Nibali (and x other GT riders) in LBL and Lombardia. He's there, but to win.... difficult. And actually I think quite a few GT riders would have the ability to be more or less on Wiggins level in PR, the problem is not lack of ability, but that they don't want to take the risk. And, that from a place somewhere between 5-20 to the win, it's still a big difference.

 

[Irondan]

It's not about worthiness, it's about who's the better GT rider.

Sastre was a better GT rider during his career than Wiggins was in his. Wiggins is the worst rider (GT strength wise) to win the Tour in the modern era.

In the post-Armstrong era:

1st: Contador
2nd: Landis
3rd: Froome
4th: Nibali
5th: Evans
6th: Sastre
7th: Wiggins

My eyes keep going back to Landis, to see if it's a mistake. Granted, I'm a newbie so I don't know if Floyd's your hero or not, although I was onboard when he won the TDF. BUT, he's never won a GT. At least the other guys all have wins that haven't been nullified yet.

 

[Irondan]

A guy that has consistently over the course of his career been on or near the podium of grand tours, plus in the top ten of grand tour gc's, is the worst? Sastre is a worthy grand tour winner, snatching yellow on Alpe d'Huez no less in an emphatic attack and cementing it with a strong itt. He saved the race for his team with Andy dropping out of contention after booking earlier in the Tour and losing major time and Frank having no chance with his abysmal ability versus the clock and the final itt looming.

I'm curious as to how Sastre won the TDF clean (supposedly) when it's now clear that the peloton was doped to the gills during this time? He must be one of the greatest GT riders of the modern era to overcome those odds...