Wiggins Discussion thread.

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Who exactly are we supposed to think will wallop Wiggins in the mountains?

He's not going to be racing Contador, Schleck or Froome. Who else has been consistently better than him in GT climbing recently? And so much better that they can afford to lose TT minutes?
 
Ryo Hazuki said:
wiggins would've never won the giro this year. not enough itt and purito >>>>>>>>>>>> wiggins any day and even he couldn't defeat hesjedal in the end and then there was de gendt and his show, that wiggins could've never followed either as he sucks too much in downhil too

the most important problem wiggins will face is 3 or 4 back to back mountainstages. he always sucked in more than 2 back to back mountainstages. same problem nibali has for instance. the giro seperates the climbers from the wannabees

wow ryo i was about to post this myself.

hitch where in my post did i mention nibali? and if you want to talk nibali, just like ryo said his problem never was the type of mountain but what mountain he had the day before.

don't believe me? then allow me to provide evidence:

tour de france 09:
stage 15 to verbier: 3rd 1:03 behind contador and 20 seconds behind andy
stage 16 Bourg-Saint-Maurice: same time as the big favorites, was on the important move caused by the schlecks but when andy's pace setting dropped frank just as they caught voight from the break, andy decided to have voight work instead of push on which allowed both frank and armstrong to get back and then a bunch more riders on the downhill.
stage 17 to Le Grand-Bornand: cracked at the bottom of the col du romme when the group was still like 10+ man strong just as the schlecks start attacking managed to catch a paced by VDV wiggins and armstrong a couple k before the top. then attacks on the descent as is caught straight away as soon as they start to climb the col de colombiere. he then follows wiggins and armstrong up the climb and tried to follow armstrong when he attacked 1k from the top. he managed to catch armstong on the descent finishing same time with him and almost an entire minute ahead of wiggins who struggled a lot on what was the only proper mountain stage of that tour and the best mountain stage the tour had in a while in terms of design.
stage 18 annecy itt: average ride losing 21 seconds on andy schleck.

see the pattern? at the second day of proper effort in a short time both nibali and wiggins cracked with nibali being the better natural climber of the 2 eventually handling the situation better despite starting much worse.

giro 2010:
stage 14 to asolo: win, caused the selection up the climb one of the best performances of his career.
stage 15 to zoncolan the following day: cracked mightily, finished a whole 3 minutes down on basso and 2 on evans despite being stronger then evans the previous day.
stage 16 to plan de corones: rest day in btw so he is back on the game and gains time on both basso and scarponi.
stage 19 to aprica: was strong, not super but clearly the third strongest a tier bellow basso and scarponi. basso clearly had to ease off a couple k from the top of the mortirolo not to drop him which is clear by the fact that they stop gaining time on vino/sastre/gadret. he still was extremely useful to basso guiding him on the descent and pushing up aprica which he still did very well.
stage 20 to tonale: cracked a bit on the ascent to tonale after evans attack losing 30 seconds to evens and 20 scarponi/basso.

once again make it 2 days in a row and he struggles.


vuelta 2010 on the typical vuelta triffecta:
good on penã cabarga and the following day on lagos but awful on the third day to cotobello.

some improvement as he handled the second day very well but was really awful on cotobello and would have lost the vuelta there had mosquera been more aggressive there like frank schleck was.

giro 2011:
good on gloss and on the zoncolan, cracked the following day on gardeccia but managed to cut his losses pretty well despite everything. a rest day later and he is second on the itt behind contador so he is back on the game.
he then gains time on scarponi on Macugnaga but struggles a lot the next day on finestre and loses his second place there.

i would say he showed some improvement btw 2010 and 2011.

tour 2012:

was very consistent all race cept on Peyragudes when he cracked bit which he blamed on an injury getting worse but i will call BS and say it was just his trademark bad day.

well that was long wasn't? what i was really trying to say? ya right the type of mountain isn't the problem, recovery and consistency are.
 
Oct 11, 2010
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Zinoviev Letter said:
Who exactly are we supposed to think will wallop Wiggins in the mountains?

He's not going to be racing Contador, Schleck or Froome. Who else has been consistently better than him in GT climbing recently? And so much better that they can afford to lose TT minutes?

Pellizotti, Scarponi, Nibali, Rodriguez, Rujano, Pozzovivo, Basso, Anton are all superior climbers. He might be able to recover enough time in the TT to make the podium but that's a stretch.
 
as for wiggins, i could definitively see the high altitudes and back to back tough mountain stages of the giro becoming a serious problem for him.

let's not forget that just like nibali he doesn't has a perfect record on back to back mountain stages, just look at the vuelta and at how strong he was on la farrapona and how bad he was the following day up the angliru.
 
Aug 16, 2011
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Zinoviev Letter said:
Who exactly are we supposed to think will wallop Wiggins in the mountains?

He's not going to be racing Contador, Schleck or Froome. Who else has been consistently better than him in GT climbing recently? And so much better that they can afford to lose TT minutes?

A few guys that could make the race difficult for Wiggins: Nibali, Purito, Pozzovivo, Hesjedal, De Gendt, Nieve, Pellizotti, Quintana, Betancur, Scarponi (if he's not past his prime), Basso (again unless he's past his prime), Rujano (if in form).
 
Altitude said:
Pellizotti, Scarponi, Nibali, Rodriguez, Rujano, Pozzovivo, Basso, Anton are all superior climbers. He might be able to recover enough time in the TT to make the podium but that's a stretch.

Anton, Rujano and Pozzovivo are superior climbers on their day, certainly. That, however, is a very different thing to being a reliably better climber over three weeks as their GC record should tell anyone.

Pellizoti is coming back from a suspension, so even assuming a high natural level we aren't likely to see him at it. Basso is past it. Scarponi and Nibali are well within Wiggins range.

Wiggins might have no motivation. He might never again ride as well as he did in the Tour. But on Tour 2012 form, he's the favourite over any of those guys in the mountains over three weeks with the possible exception of Vuelta 2012 JRod. And even aside from JRod's previous flakiness in Grand Tours, he'll get murdered in the TT.

I don't particularly like Wiggins. And I think he'd get a hiding against the Tour field. And I think there's a very good chance that he won't be able to prepare with the same discipline and hunger. But there's really nobody a Tour 2012 Wiggins should fear at the Giro.
 
Giro/Tour Squad Predictions:

Giro:

Wiggins (Leader)
Porte
Rogers
Cataldo
Kiryienka
Knees
Pate
Stannard
Swift

Tour:

Froome (Leader)
Wiggins
Porte/Rogers
Henao
Uran
Sivtsov
Eisel
Thomas
Boasson Hagen
 
Aug 16, 2011
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Zinoviev Letter said:
I don't particularly like Wiggins. And I think he'd get a hiding against the Tour field. And I think there's a very good chance that he won't be able to prepare with the same discipline and hunger. But there's really nobody a Tour 2012 Wiggins should fear at the Giro.

Be afraid Wiggins, be very afraid. Cause shark weeks coming...The shark is hungry...

bettiniphoto_0102524_1_full_600.jpg


...And Wiggins is on the menu.

SharkAttack.jpg


:D
 
Zinoviev Letter said:
I'd love to see Nibali smash Wiggins in the climbs. I just don't see that his actual record provides much reason to expect it.

Wiggins may lose marginal time on the climbs to Nibali as he has improved his climbing and then can easily add time to Nibali in the TTs. Nibali has to attack in the mountains otherwise the result is inevitable. Which makes for a better race but Ryder and Rodriguez will have to do the same. Once again the Sky team will be hard to crack in the mountains. Potentially the Giro could be a more entertaining race than the Tour especially if Contador turns up in much better form than Froome and the others.
 
Sep 14, 2011
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The Hitch said:
Did you see the Vuelta? Quintana was flying away from the other Colombians for minutes. He then procceeded to match them in Lombardia when no one expected it, and took hisself a classic.

Henao was good for his first year in europe, but he never matched the heads of state all the way up a mountain like Quintana did in the Vuelta when it was absolute carnage. And as a 22 year old moving to 23 he should improve more than a 24 year old moving 25.

You appear to live in some sort of fantasy world, Quintana finished behind Henao and Uran in the Vuelta and Lombardia and that was after they had had much, much harder seasons than Quintana had. I don't doubt Quintana's potential for one second but to suggest he is ready to compete for the GC in the Giro next year is nothing short of wishful thinking.
 
Sep 14, 2011
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Ferminal said:
Quintana was easily better than Henao/Uran in the Vuelta. Those two only really made an impact early on, the day Froome dropped Contador?

I think it's called selective memory syndrome, Quintana was excellent on a couple of stages, he was invisible for most of the race. Take the anti Sky glasses off for a moment and look at the facts.
 
Bernie's eyesore said:
I think it's called selective memory syndrome, Quintana was excellent on a couple of stages, he was invisible for most of the race. Take the anti Sky glasses off for a moment and look at the facts.

lol, what anti Sky glasses? Quintana was the best domestique in the race when it mattered. He was helping Valverde trade blows with Purito and Contador whilst Henao and Uran were minutes back chauffeuring Froome or dropped off the back themselves.
 
Sep 14, 2011
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Ferminal said:
lol, what anti Sky glasses? Quintana was the best domestique in the race when it mattered. He was helping Valverde trade blows with Purito and Contador whilst Henao and Uran were minutes back chauffeuring Froome or dropped off the back themselves.

That was one stage, Henao finished almost an hour ahead of Quintana but, apparently, Quintana was easily the better rider in the race. From a domestiques point of view, Henao's ride on stage 6 was more effective anyway, it helped to drop Contador and would have been very significant if Froome had been there in top shape. On the Quintana ride you mentioned, he didn't prevent Valverde getting dropped by Contador and Purito.
 
Bernie's eyesore said:
That was one stage, Henao finished almost an hour ahead of Quintana but, apparently, Quintana was easily the better rider in the race. From a domestiques point of view, Henao's ride on stage 6 was more effective anyway, it helped to drop Contador and would have been very significant if Froome had been there in top shape. On the Quintana ride you mentioned, he didn't prevent Valverde getting dropped by Contador and Purito.

Looking at overall time for guys who clearly were not riding for it is a great argument.

Quintana's rides on Covadonga and Cuitu Negru beat anything the others did. Even Moreno went missing when it mattered (although according to your logic he is automatically the best domestique in the race).
 
cineteq said:
Rocks? Look yourself in the mirror. Wiggins hinted he might be willing to defend his title, thus be Sky's Tour leader, i.e. no Giro for him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHOZQwnJGRA


Funny? he seems to have said exactly what webvan quote, namely:
"I'll be at the start (of the Tour de France), that's for sure. Whether or not, I defend......
My priority is the Giro d'Italia."

Great to see a TDF winner treat the Giro with the true respect it deserves.
Given that we all rate the Italian epic more highly than the overly-commercialised Tour, this should be music to our ears.
Were it any other top rider, I'm sure he would be applauded.

For a guy who rides like a calculating machine, this is quite the enigmatic decision.
Gambling his season on the unpredictable Giro.
 
Sep 14, 2011
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Ferminal said:
Looking at overall time for guys who clearly were not riding for it is a great argument.

Quintana's rides on Covadonga and Cuitu Negru beat anything the others did. Even Moreno went missing when it mattered (although according to your logic he is automatically the best domestique in the race).

I can't be bothered arguing about it anymore, if you genuinely believe that Quintana was easily better than Henao in the Vuelta based on one or two stages then good luck to you.
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Bernie's eyesore said:
That was one stage, Henao finished almost an hour ahead of Quintana but, apparently, Quintana was easily the better rider in the race. From a domestiques point of view, Henao's ride on stage 6 was more effective anyway, it helped to drop Contador and would have been very significant if Froome had been there in top shape. On the Quintana ride you mentioned, he didn't prevent Valverde getting dropped by Contador and Purito.

this has the be the most idiotic post currently on cn.com forums, which is a feta of itself considering all what is posted in the clinic
 
Mar 31, 2010
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Bernie's eyesore said:
I can't be bothered arguing about it anymore, if you genuinely believe that Quintana was easily better than Henao in the Vuelta based on one or two stages then good luck to you.

he, he, he?? you are the only one that things otherwise in this topic :rolleyes:
 
Jun 15, 2010
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b.broadhurst said:
Giro/Tour Squad Predictions:

Giro:

Wiggins (Leader)
Porte
Rogers
Cataldo
Kiryienka
Knees
Pate
Stannard
Swift

Tour:

Froome (Leader)
Wiggins
Porte/Rogers
Henao
Uran
Sivtsov
Eisel
Thomas
Boasson Hagen

No Kennaugh.I think he might get a GT this year.Not sure what they will do with JTL
 
Sep 2, 2010
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pastronef said:
I think one of the 2 colombians wil ride the Giro too

Those two almost never get split. I think Dombrowski will ride the Giro since he's already a baby giro winner.

I still think it'll be interesting to see how Wiggins will fare when Nibali attacks on a properly technical giro descent especially if the weather isn't great.