Wiggins Discussion thread.

[Kwibus]

A whole lot of what 'if's' going on here.

Just saying that discussing these kind of 'what if' issues is really a waste of time, because you will never know for sure.
Sure some think that they know for sure that ' if ' this happened and ' if ' that rider was there that the result would've been this and that. The point is they think they know it, but they can't know it. It's just wasting energy on a useless debate, because we will never know since it didn't happen.

 

[Netserk]

I think everyone could see on Toussuire that Wiggins would've lost significant time if he was on his own.

 

[Kwibus]

Maybe, maybe not.

 

[samhocking]

Lemond had to hold back for Hinault, Indurain for Delgado etc etc. It's really no different to this and it will happen again, it's the nature of racing as a team and different generations of rider racing together. The Tour is won as a team in what was decided over previous 12 months, not what is known in the middle of cycling biggest race. There would be absolutely no moral or even personal justification you could give Wiggins, already in Yellow, already having morphed himself into the rider he isn't naturally for 2 years with the race almost won anyway that he should let his better climbing domestique win instead. It would be disrespectful to Wiggins and irresponsible to switch a 12 month plan in the middle of a race. Totally crazy logic to think that individual rider performance should change a teams race strategy and switch leader will-nilly when it isn't necessary.

 

[Miburo]

Re:

Maybe, maybe not.

Really? Come on really?

This is discussion forum, and this is a close to a fact as you can get. Froome was way way stronger than wiggins in the mountains. You're gonna dispute that with your maybe or maybe not?

 

[Jelantik]

Re:

A whole lot of what 'if's' going on here.

Just saying that discussing these kind of 'what if' issues is really a waste of time, because you will never know for sure.
Sure some think that they know for sure that ' if ' this happened and ' if ' that rider was there that the result would've been this and that. The point is they think they know it, but they can't know it. It's just wasting energy on a useless debate, because we will never know since it didn't happen.

Agreed. I would rather discuss what will happen on Sunday with Wiggin? Will he win it, podium it, or nada? So far, looks like he got his star lines up to start with. No Cancellara and Boonen. Ettix still can't get their strategy right and this year with a splendid strong team to back him up. Looks like he got greater chance than before to win it or at least podium it. And he got the engine to go. His star was aligned at 2012 TDF. Starting with the perfect parcour for him, no Contador or Andy to contents, backed up by a strong team with even the strongest rider in mountain towed him across the mountain. So Sunday might be a de ja vu.

 

[elfed68]

Re: Re:

A whole lot of what 'if's' going on here.

Just saying that discussing these kind of 'what if' issues is really a waste of time, because you will never know for sure.
Sure some think that they know for sure that ' if ' this happened and ' if ' that rider was there that the result would've been this and that. The point is they think they know it, but they can't know it. It's just wasting energy on a useless debate, because we will never know since it didn't happen.

Agreed. I would rather discuss what will happen on Sunday with Wiggin? Will he win it, podium it, or nada? So far, looks like he got his star lines up to start with. No Cancellara and Boonen. Ettix still can't get their strategy right and this year with a splendid strong team to back him up. Looks like he got greater chance than before to win it or at least podium it. And he got the engine to go. His star was aligned at 2012 TDF. Starting with the perfect parcour for him, no Contador or Andy to contents, backed up by a strong team with even the strongest rider in mountain towed him across the mountain. So Sunday might be a de ja vu.

Here we go again, so if he does manage to win, it won't be because he's a good rider it'll be because of all the other stuff giving him a lucky break.
The trolls will be lighting fireworks if it happens, even more if he doesn't!

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

A whole lot of what 'if's' going on here.

Just saying that discussing these kind of 'what if' issues is really a waste of time, because you will never know for sure.
Sure some think that they know for sure that ' if ' this happened and ' if ' that rider was there that the result would've been this and that. The point is they think they know it, but they can't know it. It's just wasting energy on a useless debate, because we will never know since it didn't happen.

Agreed. I would rather discuss what will happen on Sunday with Wiggin? Will he win it, podium it, or nada? So far, looks like he got his star lines up to start with. No Cancellara and Boonen. Ettix still can't get their strategy right and this year with a splendid strong team to back him up. Looks like he got greater chance than before to win it or at least podium it. And he got the engine to go. His star was aligned at 2012 TDF. Starting with the perfect parcour for him, no Contador or Andy to contents, backed up by a strong team with even the strongest rider in mountain towed him across the mountain. So Sunday might be a de ja vu.

I think he has a chance; I believe him when he says he is ready form wise. He also has very strong team around him. He'd have to pull a win off going solo which I think he could manage. He is the strongest tter here...definitely a top contender imo.

 

[sir fly]

If Brailsford & co. have figured out how to translate the pursuit to the cobbles Sir Wiggins might lift the stone on the velodrome.
There's plenty of symbolism in this effort. It's good for storytelling.
ASO has already given a discount to the Brits on the similar basis several years ago, but I'm sure the cobbles don't hold any shares in the business.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Re:

...
ASO has already given a discount to the Brits on the similar basis several years ago, but I'm sure the cobbles don't hold any shares in the business.

Brailsford's 007 (shaken not stirred)
put out both Boonen and Cancellara
so to give Wiggo this chance.

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

...
ASO has already given a discount to the Brits on the similar basis several years ago, but I'm sure the cobbles don't hold any shares in the business.

Brailsford's 007 (shaken not stirred)
put out both Boonen and Cancellara
so to give Wiggo this chance.

It's been less obvious in Cancellara's case.
Possibly some witchcraft.

 

[DBotero]

Last year he surprised everybody,hopefully this year will be better.I'm naive,i think he has a chance to win this damn race

 

[elfed68]

Good luck tomorrow Wiggo, let's shut up the trolls good and proper!

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Maybe, maybe not.

Really? Come on really?

This is discussion forum, and this is a close to a fact as you can get. Froome was way way stronger than wiggins in the mountains. You're gonna dispute that with your maybe or maybe not?

No, you think it's close to a fact.
Froome was stronger in the mountains yes. He dropped him once and he could gain time there, but we will never know how much. If Froome would've taken 3 minutes and 21 seconds on Wiggins we will never know.

 

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

Maybe, maybe not.

Really? Come on really?

This is discussion forum, and this is a close to a fact as you can get. Froome was way way stronger than wiggins in the mountains. You're gonna dispute that with your maybe or maybe not?

No, you think it's close to a fact.
Froome was stronger in the mountains yes. He dropped him once and he could gain time there, but we will never know how much. If Froome would've taken 3 minutes and 21 seconds on Wiggins we will never know.

What's the point in discussing anything? We'll never know right?

Froome was riding wiggins from his back with a finger in his nose. Think, use your brain. What if he really tried and didn't have to work for him.

Using your brain isn't that hard.

 

[Guerrillero Heroico]

"Using your brain isn't that hard."

No, it's not.

Why don't you?

 

[elfed68]

Re: Re:

Maybe, maybe not.

Really? Come on really?

This is discussion forum, and this is a close to a fact as you can get. Froome was way way stronger than wiggins in the mountains. You're gonna dispute that with your maybe or maybe not?

No, you think it's close to a fact.
Froome was stronger in the mountains yes. He dropped him once and he could gain time there, but we will never know how much. If Froome would've taken 3 minutes and 21 seconds on Wiggins we will never know.

What's the point in discussing anything? We'll never know right?

Froome was riding wiggins from his back with a finger in his nose. Think, use your brain. What if he really tried and didn't have to work for him.

Using your brain isn't that hard.

Based on this type of thinking Porte was the true winner of the 2013 TdF seeing as he saved Froome on the Alps d'Hueuz stage.

 

[Jelantik]

Re: Re:

A whole lot of what 'if's' going on here.

Just saying that discussing these kind of 'what if' issues is really a waste of time, because you will never know for sure.
Sure some think that they know for sure that ' if ' this happened and ' if ' that rider was there that the result would've been this and that. The point is they think they know it, but they can't know it. It's just wasting energy on a useless debate, because we will never know since it didn't happen.

Agreed. I would rather discuss what will happen on Sunday with Wiggin? Will he win it, podium it, or nada? So far, looks like he got his star lines up to start with. No Cancellara and Boonen. Ettix still can't get their strategy right and this year with a splendid strong team to back him up. Looks like he got greater chance than before to win it or at least podium it. And he got the engine to go. His star was aligned at 2012 TDF. Starting with the perfect parcour for him, no Contador or Andy to contents, backed up by a strong team with even the strongest rider in mountain towed him across the mountain. So Sunday might be a de ja vu.

Here we go again, so if he does manage to win, it won't be because he's a good rider it'll be because of all the other stuff giving him a lucky break.
The trolls will be lighting fireworks if it happens, even more if he doesn't!

i thought in cycling, you could have everything: form, strong team, good equipment etc., but you need luck too. It just happen this year is no Cancellara and Boonen. That's kinda an opportunity. The rest is going to happen in the field. I don't say that he is not a good rider, but the circumstances right now is even making him has greater chance to win or podium. That's all.

 

[elfed68]

Re: Re:

A whole lot of what 'if's' going on here.

Just saying that discussing these kind of 'what if' issues is really a waste of time, because you will never know for sure.
Sure some think that they know for sure that ' if ' this happened and ' if ' that rider was there that the result would've been this and that. The point is they think they know it, but they can't know it. It's just wasting energy on a useless debate, because we will never know since it didn't happen.

Agreed. I would rather discuss what will happen on Sunday with Wiggin? Will he win it, podium it, or nada? So far, looks like he got his star lines up to start with. No Cancellara and Boonen. Ettix still can't get their strategy right and this year with a splendid strong team to back him up. Looks like he got greater chance than before to win it or at least podium it. And he got the engine to go. His star was aligned at 2012 TDF. Starting with the perfect parcour for him, no Contador or Andy to contents, backed up by a strong team with even the strongest rider in mountain towed him across the mountain. So Sunday might be a de ja vu.

Here we go again, so if he does manage to win, it won't be because he's a good rider it'll be because of all the other stuff giving him a lucky break.
The trolls will be lighting fireworks if it happens, even more if he doesn't!

i thought in cycling, you could have everything: form, strong team, good equipment etc., but you need luck too. It just happen this year is no Cancellara and Boonen. That's kinda an opportunity. The rest is going to happen in the field. I don't say that he is not a good rider, but the circumstances right now is even making him has greater chance to win or podium. That's all.

 

[argyllflyer]

Re: Re:

Maybe, maybe not.

Really? Come on really?

This is discussion forum, and this is a close to a fact as you can get. Froome was way way stronger than wiggins in the mountains. You're gonna dispute that with your maybe or maybe not?

No, you think it's close to a fact.
Froome was stronger in the mountains yes. He dropped him once and he could gain time there, but we will never know how much. If Froome would've taken 3 minutes and 21 seconds on Wiggins we will never know.

But as has already been stated, from the very beginning he was hampered when he got little to no support to get back on after puncturing on stage 1 and was not permitted by the team to regain that time lost on later stages, TTs apart, which he felt was his right as the GC back-up.They didn't race head to head outwith the TTs and therefore it was not a fair fight. Imagine a reverse scenario of Wiggins being ordered to soft pedal the TT and only race Froome on the Cat 1 / HC climbs. We'll never know by how much Wiggins' advantage over Froome would gave come down but it's fact that his winning margin was inflated by team decisions.

 

[pastronef]

Wiggins and rain don't mix very well. He Has poor handling skills and could not cope.
If it rains at PR he won't finish.

sun and blue sky today

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Maybe, maybe not.

Really? Come on really?

This is discussion forum, and this is a close to a fact as you can get. Froome was way way stronger than wiggins in the mountains. You're gonna dispute that with your maybe or maybe not?

No, you think it's close to a fact.
Froome was stronger in the mountains yes. He dropped him once and he could gain time there, but we will never know how much. If Froome would've taken 3 minutes and 21 seconds on Wiggins we will never know.

What's the point in discussing anything? We'll never know right?

Froome was riding wiggins from his back with a finger in his nose. Think, use your brain. What if he really tried and didn't have to work for him.

Using your brain isn't that hard.

A suggestion to yourself I assume?

I certainly think Froome had a chance of winning that TdF if he could ride for himself, but there is absolute not enough info to be sure he would've made up 3minutes and 24 seconds on Wiggins.

 

[Kwibus]

Wiggins and rain don't mix very well. He Has poor handling skills and could not cope.
If it rains at PR he won't finish.

sun and blue sky today

And a tailwind! Attacking early with his big engine could certainly pay off. With early I mean within 50km from the finish.

 

[Beacon Hill]

Fingers crossed for a strong performance today.

Would like to see him leave with his head held high rather than a whimper.

Dont think he can win, but he will hopefully at least try.

 

[arvc40]

Couple of nice TV Attacks from Big Wigg. Nice to see his team mate beat him to the line also.