Will Astana Financial Collapse Lead To Armstrong Owning The Team?

[franciep10]

stop with this political bull crap this a cycling circus, not a political one if you want to talk politics go to the cnn forum not this one I don't care about Republican or Democrat I care about cycling

 

[Seth Bullock]

Hopefully sooner or later there can be some posts about cycling again.... or perhaps certain posts in this thread could be moved to lancepoliticaldopingconspiracieshiddenagendaforum.com. Of course I could probably just not read them (as many will no doubt suggest), but I don't know, I keep on scrolling through in the vain hope that the thread will get back on topic..... And of course there are the countless other threads that time and again degenerate into the "D" word with associated accusations being levelled at a certain cyclist whom many seem to have a real and very personal gripe with. It's almost as though this certain cyclist, ooh I don't know, did he leave a big steaming pile of s**t under certain poster's pillows?.... Seeing as how he's apparently soley responsible for putting pro-cycling into the gutter, I imagine he's also responsible for global warming and the world economic crisis.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Just to clarify, John Kerry was actually in France in 2005 watching the Tour and hung out with Lance a few times, and remember that Lance was dating the liberal activist Sheryl Crow for a while. Though most people do think he's a Republican, he's never really said that I know of.

Also, plenty of Republicans voted for all of the bailouts as well, though there seems to be a schism developing in the party. A lot of neocons like many currently in office tended to vote for them, while more traditionalists like Peter Schiff or Art Laffer (who got into a famous debate once on mortgage investment!) were completely against them; While the generally Democratic leaning Joseph Stiglitz was mostly against them as well as Democratic Reps Max Backus and Peter DeFazio, who come from pretty different districts (Montana, Oregon), and different backgrounds.

Sorry, yes political diversions suck, I just wanted to clarify before the conversation got really mired down in hyperbole without knowing some details.

Still curious where Lance is going to get the money. And I support WBT's previous post for the most part.

 

[jaylew]

Anyone who still believes AC will get full team support, or even half the team's support at the Tour is delusional. Astana belongs to Lance, and the man he made big (JB) will forever be indebted to him.

Man, I hope you're wrong. I guess I might be a tad bit delusional as I still think(hope) Contador will have a chance to race for himself.

 

[jaylew]

I like your handle. Deadwood might be my 2nd favorite TV show of all time.

 

[Bala Verde]

Just to clarify, John Kerry was actually in France in 2005 watching the Tour and hung out with Lance a few times, and remember that Lance was dating the liberal activist Sheryl Crow for a while. Though most people do think he's a Republican, he's never really said that I know of.

Also, plenty of Republicans voted for all of the bailouts as well, though there seems to be a schism developing in the party. A lot of neocons like many currently in office tended to vote for them, while more traditionalists like Peter Schiff or Art Laffer (who got into a famous debate once on mortgage investment!) were completely against them; While the generally Democratic leaning Joseph Stiglitz was mostly against them as well as Democratic Reps Max Backus and Peter DeFazio, who come from pretty different districts (Montana, Oregon), and different backgrounds.

Sorry, yes political diversions suck, I just wanted to clarify before the conversation got really mired down in hyperbole without knowing some details.

Still curious where Lance is going to get the money. And I support WBT's previous post for the most part.

can he take out a loan?

well, back on topic. He is one helluva fundraiser, so it wouldn't surprise me if he pulls one or two big sponsors from his sleeve. His name stands for success, he has a story to tell, and he is a determined, passionate athlete.

That's probably why Nike is probably brought in connection with LA. Nike likes the winning individual to seel their goods. However, Nike, IMO, is not really a cycling brand, and given the fact - see Alpe's post - that they are a little cash strapped, it would make more sense to focus on the market they already shape, such as Bball, instead of branching out in a relatively less interesting field, such as cycling. Bball fans hugely outnumber cycling fans, so I think there seems nothing to gain for Nike. Cycling fans wear high tops, but no bball fan would buy cycling shoes...it's that simple.

I do think AMGEN might be an interesting option, especially because they have huge stakes in the cancer medication field. Biotech and pharmaceutical companies do have a lot of money, and I heard that they, compared to other industries, were already rebounding out of the recession. In other words, they are hiring again. What would be a better connection then LA and AMGEN. On the downside, the connection with EPO is probably something LA does NOT want to be associated with. Another thing, why would a pharmaceutical company want to advertise, while they operate in such a highly specialized field. Doctors prescribe, so often teh consumer does not get to choose.

I doubt a US bank, will chip in in this climate, although it seems to be a popular thing in cycling with Caisse, Rab, Saxo, Credit Agri, Landbouw Krediet. As Rabobank reps say, 'cycling is one of the cheapest forms of advertising'. You get a lot of exposure, lots of days throughout the year, and it only costs them what, 9 Million... now that's a steal compared to soccer...

So maybe a tech company, like Oracle, IBM, Windows? It has been tried before (CSC, Oracle). Or what about a big blue chip company like Coca Cola, or Pepsi?

 

[Seth Bullock]

I like your handle. Deadwood might be my 2nd favorite TV show of all time.

With you on that - why on earth did they cancel? (whoops, off topic again). How about that episode with the 'bone shaker' - there's not nearly enough 'bone shakers' been ridden these days (sort of back on topic).

 

[jaylew]

And the creators went to work on John in Cincinnati which lasted all of one season.

Back when I worked at a bike shop, we actually had a couple of those Boneshaker style bikes as the owner was a bit of a collector. Not rideable, though.

 

[grimpeur]

@Bala Verde—Thanks for putting that post into perspective with your answer. Fox News talking points you've been pwned.

 

[Anonymous]

The other alternative is to bring back Vino early - maybe not as a rider, but some role on the team and see if that opens up some purses in the Kazach Republic to have their hero involved. That way, the immediate need gets fulfilled, the GT gets underway and the new team can get formed and AC can stay or go !!

Well, that was a daydream - now I just spilled my coffee !!!

vino is an arongant dope filled scum bag.
if this line up makes it to the tour i'm certain lance will do just what he has said he'll do. he'll honor the sport he loves for the sake of livestrong and he'll adhere to cycling tradition and support the strongest rider, which will be ac.
he's the best in the world.
even if lance owns the team lock stock and barrel he not going to dishonor the livestrong image by makeing a vulgar power grab against ac.

 

[nathan_peace]

vino is an arongant dope filled scum bag.
if this line up makes it to the tour i'm certain lance will do just what he has said he'll do. he'll honor the sport he loves for the sake of livestrong and he'll adhere to cycling tradition and support the strongest rider, which will be ac.
he's the best in the world.
even if lance owns the team lock stock and barrel he not going to dishonor the livestrong image by makeing a vulgar power grab against ac.

I totally agree, I think lance knows that AC would probably beat him head to head and wiill therefore not try to 'race' him. Lance will be there in about second or third place incase AC has to abandon.

 

[bianchigirl]

Lance Armstrong be honourable and not vulgar? Best laugh I've had all day

But he doesn't have the PT license and I can't imagine the present sponsors handing it over lock, stock and barrel when their teams has been hijacked and their riders sidelined.

If Vino is back in the team that will come with some strings attached and Astana will never get a TdF ride again. Armstrong & Bruyneel don't hold the license - and with a UCI election coming up McQuaid would be unwise to look like a corrupt, double dealing shyster (though it may be too late for that).

 

[Anonymous]

theres quiet an intelligent and informative article on the whole thing here
http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/tag/johan-bruyneel/

fills in a lot of the gaps regarding salaries (they have been paid) and the confusion (cycling news caused) over who owns the licence.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Lindsey's assessment seems a little rosy to me. I'm still looking for someone to explain to me why Nike would be the major sponsor of a cycling team considering their recent financial setbacks, and tradition of sponsoring specific athletes as opposed to teams (except in college as possible), and cycling's current dismal reputation.

It's going to be interesting to see how Astana prepares for the Tour, when they probably won't be racing in Europe after the Giro ends. The only major race in the US during that time is the Pennsylvania Classic. A UCI Continental 1.1 race.

Curious how well Lance will be able to raise money for the new team if Astana doesn't win the Giro or Tour.

vino is an arrogant dope filled scum bag.

Tell us how you really feel, Jackhammer! Don't hold anything back.

 

[Anonymous]

i thought vino was a transfusion...

did he ever officially get banned by the uci or was it just his federation that banned him

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Kazaks tried to give him a 1 year ban. UCI pushed it to two years, which was upheld by CAS.

Rumor is the UCI does not want him racing, and plans on enforcing the Anti-Doping Charter on him, which will require him to pay a full year's salary. I say good. Same with Kashekin.

They also need to pressure PT teams to not sign him, and fight them if they try. If Roberto Heras (who has all but confessed and is contrite, and not bitter) can't ride for a PT team and has basically been blackballed from the sport, the last person we need racing is Vino.

 

[cyclevelo]

To answer your question. Why should the people that start companies and are successful have to support the people that aren't. Isn't that stealing?
I also want to know where in the constitution it says that the gov't has to provide you your basic needs. It is your responsibility to provide you your individual needs. There are exceptions: people with disabilities and elderly. Not people that can support their selves and just want handouts. Again as I stated before, I agree with my take dollars going the infrastructure but not to bail out companies that were not run correctly. Again, why is it the gov'ts responsibility to decide who succeeds and fails. Is that capitalism?
Have you ever spoken to the bumb down the street. I supported the troops but if you give up why should I support you. Bottom line. I take care of my family. Why should my tax dollars go to someone that doesn't take care of themselves. Why doesn't the govt use donations instead of stealing. Or go to the Fair Tax. And to answer that question the Gov't wants power.

Why can't the threads be about Cycling and no one put political junk in them. Just stick to cycling and leave it there.

 

[Zoncolan]

Kazaks tried to give him a 1 year ban. UCI pushed it to two years, which was upheld by CAS.

Rumor is the UCI does not want him racing, and plans on enforcing the Anti-Doping Charter on him, which will require him to pay a full year's salary. I say good. Same with Kashekin.

They also need to pressure PT teams to not sign him, and fight them if they try. If Roberto Heras (who has all but confessed and is contrite, and not bitter) can't ride for a PT team and has basically been blackballed from the sport, the last person we need racing is Vino.

For once, I disagree. Why should we welcome back Moreau, Zulle, Virenque, Hamilton, Scarponi, Millar, Basso, Landis... and not do the same with Vino and Kasheshkin?
It's not their fault they were super stupid to dope with someone else's blood, and not use their own, like so many others still do.
I'd say, OK guys, you have another chance, next strike and you're out.
The same rules should be applied to everyone.
The fact that Vino still denies ever doping, shows what an a$$ he is, but the same goes for Floyd, for whom many have sympathy.
When Valverde gets banned, and it looks increasingly like he will be soon, I would like to see him back once his time is served.
I don't know about Heras, has he even attempted a comeback?
My 0.02$

 

[bianchigirl]

You forget, it's only the dirty Euros that dope, not any clean living English speaking riders :roll:

Sport is interesting in that it must be the only profession where you can defraud promoters, fans and fellow athletes and walk straight back into the same job. Imagine if someone who had ripped off a bank was allowed to do that? But the rules say you can come back once you've served your ban and should be applied uniformly across the board - if one is allowed to ride then you have to let them all in.

 

[Bala Verde]

For once, I disagree. Why should we welcome back Moreau, Zulle, Virenque, Hamilton, Scarponi, Millar, Basso, Landis... and not do the same with Vino and Kasheshkin?
It's not their fault they were super stupid to dope with someone else's blood, and not use their own, like so many others still do.
I'd say, OK guys, you have another chance, next strike and you're out.
The same rules should be applied to everyone.
The fact that Vino still denies ever doping, shows what an a$$ he is, but the same goes for Floyd, for whom many have sympathy.
When Valverde gets banned, and it looks increasingly like he will be soon, I would like to see him back once his time is served.
I don't know about Heras, has he even attempted a comeback?
My 0.02$

I agree. There are basic rules, hence, you have to stick with them. If the rules seem out of place, they can/should be altered and applied to anyone, regardless of his nationality or his stupidity.

@ Alpe, as a I said before. I don't believe Nike will step in, but the reason you mention, 'nike supports persons', is exactly the reason why they would support LA. In popular opinion, he 'embodies' the sport, and is of the same statute as Air Jordan and Tiger Woods were/are. I just don't think they will sponsor him or his team (although that would probably still be cheaper than contracting Tyler Hansboro), because they are not a real cycling brand and if you say, they have financial problems, it would not be smart to branch out to a market where they have nothing to gain. It's better to consolidate the markets they already own.

What about other big US companies?

 

[whiteboytrash]

whiteboytrash, in 10 words or less, tell us your message.

Don't drink paint. If you drink paint you die.

 

[whiteboytrash]

What about other big US companies?

The guy is a wash up. It’s all about ROI. What US company is going to get something out of their $20mill from advertising in the a predominately European sport ? Along with the fact that Lance's name is not the good clean Lance he was in 2000. I can’t see any US companies throwing money behind him.

At least Stapleton and Vaughters came forward with a business model based on clean cycling. The CEO of Garmin had never been to a cycling race before he came on board with Vaughters. He has now seen a whole new market for Garmin products. The technology has been developed and now they are working out ways how to get that technology into cycling computers. In addition the Garmin team provide “free” R&D for future products. Win – Win. Vaughters is way more business focused than Armstrong and much more intelligent in this area. Armstrong will attempt to bank on his name whereby Vaughters had a business model. Legend.

 

[tifosa]

Don't drink paint. If you drink paint you die.

Knew you had it in you. Finally. Now if you'd just be consistent.

 

[flyor64]

I don't know about Heras, has he even attempted a comeback?

He rode La Ruta de Conquistadors (sp?) last year...he did pretty good I think. Not sure if that's a comeback or not...

 

[tifosa]

Does anyone truly believe that Armstrong's financial backing of a team has ANYTHING to do with Armstrong "owning" said team?







Really?