BroDeal said:
so you have some sort of evidence to show that lance is currently doping do you.. anything at all to substantiate that claim.. something solid..
or just your cynical old brain working overtime...
-
The Cycling News forum is still looking to add volunteer moderators with. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to
In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.
Thanks!
so you have some sort of evidence to show that lance is currently doping do you.. anything at all to substantiate that claim.. something solid..
or just your cynical old brain working overtime...
dimspace said:
He doped in the past. What makes you think he would stop now? Especially since McQuaid has his back and even excused him for hiding from a dope tester in a bathroom for thirty minutes.
I'll take cynical over gullible any day of the week.
One scenario
One thing that might happen is a breakdown in team discipline among the main Astana protagonists at the Tour, IF the team gets to the Tour.
I'm thinking of Contador saying at some uncertain point in the race, if Lance is in really great shape, "To hell with it, I'm going to attack whatever the team orders", or whatever. "If the team's not going to be around, I don't care" type of thing.
It might yet be a wild shootout on Ventoux, and I can't see the latter favouring Armstrong. Don't think he's ever done well there. But I would never count him out in any circumstances.
One thing that might happen is a breakdown in team discipline among the main Astana protagonists at the Tour, IF the team gets to the Tour.
I'm thinking of Contador saying at some uncertain point in the race, if Lance is in really great shape, "To hell with it, I'm going to attack whatever the team orders", or whatever. "If the team's not going to be around, I don't care" type of thing.
It might yet be a wild shootout on Ventoux, and I can't see the latter favouring Armstrong. Don't think he's ever done well there. But I would never count him out in any circumstances.
BroDeal said:
so no evidence then...? thanks for clearing that up...
(and asking another question in response to a question is not a valid argument)
by that logic basso is currently undergoing a blood tranfusion, and david millar is doped up to the eyeballs ready for the TTT?
whiteboytrash
BANNED
Look is Lance going to put his money where his mouth is ? The guy has to dip into his own pockets or at least those of Livestrong and pay for the the mechanics and soigneurs. They have families you know.
____
Lance Armstrong has said he is working to save the Astana team from financial collapse and may take over the team with Johan Bruyneel before the Tour de France.
Several Kazakhstan-based sponsors of the Astana team have failed to pay in recent weeks, leaving riders and staff without wages. UCI President Pat McQuaid has confirmed that the team could lose its ProTour licence if wages are not paid and the $2 million bank guarantee is not replenished before May 27.
Speaking to Cycling Weekly, Gazzetta dello Sport and the Associated Press news agency after arriving at his hotel near Venice on Wednesday evening, Armstrong revealed his frustration with the Kazakhstan sponsors and hinted that if they end their backing before the Tour de France, he would try and take over.
“For me nothing's changed because I don't take a salary but there are a lot of soigneurs and mechanics that have family and children and when they sign a contract they expect to be paid. These Kazaks, they don't return phone calls and there's not a lot of clarity about what is going to happen,” Armstrong said.
“Maybe the situation gets resolved and the guys start getting their dough, otherwise I think the licence ought to be transferred to Johan and we try and start a team in the middle of the season.”
Armstrong made it clear he had nothing concrete in place to save the Astana team but seems to have worked through several possible scenarios.
“You have to try and predict what will happen. Will people leave the team? Do people agree to race for free? I'm speculating, I don't have any concrete answers but I suspect we can find some funding that would get us from June to the end of the year. It wouldn't be the full commitment that was promised by Astana but it would be better than nothing.”
Would Armstrong be part owner of any new team?
“I would think so. We obviously have a good crew of dudes that deserve to be there (at the Tour de France) but I don't know how the logistics of how it all shakes out. I think they'd transfer it to Johan.”
Team Livestrong for Tour de France?
With the Tour de France just two months away, Armstrong knows he faces a race against time to find a sponsor if the Kazakhstan sponsors pull the plug. But he seems determined to find a solution, perhaps with the involvement of people or companies who support his Livestrong Foundation.
“If someone commits to funding a team for half a year, that's seven or eight million dollars, for a full season it's 14 to 20 million dollars. That's a serious decision and can't be made in 20 to 30 days. But we'll certainly try and it could be a combination of people that have a shared interest in Livestrong and what to see Livestrong promoted around the world and believe in what we're doing from the foundations perspective in regards to the international cancer fight. That could be a possibility. That's just speculation but we'll figure it out. I'm quite confident of that.”
____
Lance Armstrong has said he is working to save the Astana team from financial collapse and may take over the team with Johan Bruyneel before the Tour de France.
Several Kazakhstan-based sponsors of the Astana team have failed to pay in recent weeks, leaving riders and staff without wages. UCI President Pat McQuaid has confirmed that the team could lose its ProTour licence if wages are not paid and the $2 million bank guarantee is not replenished before May 27.
Speaking to Cycling Weekly, Gazzetta dello Sport and the Associated Press news agency after arriving at his hotel near Venice on Wednesday evening, Armstrong revealed his frustration with the Kazakhstan sponsors and hinted that if they end their backing before the Tour de France, he would try and take over.
“For me nothing's changed because I don't take a salary but there are a lot of soigneurs and mechanics that have family and children and when they sign a contract they expect to be paid. These Kazaks, they don't return phone calls and there's not a lot of clarity about what is going to happen,” Armstrong said.
“Maybe the situation gets resolved and the guys start getting their dough, otherwise I think the licence ought to be transferred to Johan and we try and start a team in the middle of the season.”
Armstrong made it clear he had nothing concrete in place to save the Astana team but seems to have worked through several possible scenarios.
“You have to try and predict what will happen. Will people leave the team? Do people agree to race for free? I'm speculating, I don't have any concrete answers but I suspect we can find some funding that would get us from June to the end of the year. It wouldn't be the full commitment that was promised by Astana but it would be better than nothing.”
Would Armstrong be part owner of any new team?
“I would think so. We obviously have a good crew of dudes that deserve to be there (at the Tour de France) but I don't know how the logistics of how it all shakes out. I think they'd transfer it to Johan.”
Team Livestrong for Tour de France?
With the Tour de France just two months away, Armstrong knows he faces a race against time to find a sponsor if the Kazakhstan sponsors pull the plug. But he seems determined to find a solution, perhaps with the involvement of people or companies who support his Livestrong Foundation.
“If someone commits to funding a team for half a year, that's seven or eight million dollars, for a full season it's 14 to 20 million dollars. That's a serious decision and can't be made in 20 to 30 days. But we'll certainly try and it could be a combination of people that have a shared interest in Livestrong and what to see Livestrong promoted around the world and believe in what we're doing from the foundations perspective in regards to the international cancer fight. That could be a possibility. That's just speculation but we'll figure it out. I'm quite confident of that.”
Parrot23 said:
second to pantani in 2000, well second allegedly..
third to virenque and botcherov in 2002
(just noticed levi was 11th in 2002.. id forgotten hed been around that long.. )
whiteboytrash said:
the plot thickens.. maybe cycling news misreported that JB held the licence..
whiteboytrash
BANNED
Fitch Ratings-London/Moscow-6 May 2009: Fitch Ratings has today downgraded three Kazakh banks - Halyk Bank (Halyk), Kazkommertsbank (KKB) and Bank CenterCredit (BCC) - and non-bank lender Astana Finance (AF) on support and asset quality concerns. Halyk has been downgraded to Long-term Issuer Default (IDR) ‘B+’ from ‘BB-’, KKB to ‘B-’ from ‘BB-’, BCC to ‘B’ from ‘B+’ and AF to ‘CCC’ from ‘B+’. The agency has also downgraded Moskommertsbank, the Russian subsidiary of KKB, to ‘CCC’ from ‘B-’, and Astana Finance Leasing (AFL), a subsidiary of AF, to ‘CCC’ from ‘B+’. A full list of rating actions is provided at the end of this commentary.
The downgrades reflect a combination of support and asset quality concerns. Fitch has revised downwards its expectations of government support for the country’s leading financial institutions following the defaults of BTA Bank (‘RD’ (Restricted Default)) and Alliance Bank JSC (‘RD’) and the agency’s understanding that there is now a limited willingness on the part of the Kazakh authorities to provide further capital support to the banking sector. In Fitch’s view, the Kazakh authorities might consider moderate further capital injections, beyond those already announced, for the country’s leading banks, but substantial contributions are now unlikely to be forthcoming. At the same time, Fitch’s concerns about banks’ potential capital requirements have increased following further sharp deterioration in reported asset quality in Q109 and reviews of individual banks’ loan books during recent meetings. In the agency’s view, reported asset quality metrics are likely to continue to worsen in the next few months as the extent of underlying problems in banks’ loan books becomes more apparent, portfolios continue to season and the impact of the February 2009 KZT devaluation continues to feed through into loan performance.
Halyk’s reported asset quality has deteriorated sharply, with loans overdue by 90 days according to local regulatory data up to 8.7% at end-Q109 from 6.4% at end-2008, and those overdue by one day increasing to a high 22% from 13.1%. The regulatory total capital ratio of 11.3% at end-Q109 (pro forma 13.1% allowing for the expected KZT33bn preference share issue) and reserves/gross loans ratio of 14.4% provide only limited loss absorption capacity, given asset quality trends. Relative to KKB, Halyk’s credit profile is supported by its somewhat less high risk loan book, the much lower proportion of foreign funding (reducing the potential attractiveness of debt restructuring), the bank’s smaller size (reducing the potential cost of government support) and the close relationship between the ultimate majority shareholders (the President’s daughter and son-in-law) and the Kazakh authorities. However, if asset quality continues to deteriorate without further new capital injections (beyond the planned KZT33bn) coming in, Halyk will likely be downgraded further, a risk reflected in the Negative Outlook on the bank.
The recent worsening in reported asset quality numbers at KKB has not been as sharp as at some peers (90 day overdues reported to the local regulator up to 6.3% from 5.4% during Q109; one day overdues up to 16% from 11.5%). However, in Fitch’s view these numbers severely underestimate the scope of asset quality problems at the bank, with a significant part of the portfolio already restructured and the majority of the bank’s largest loans showing clear signs of impairment. The regulatory capital ratio of 12.1% at end-Q109 (13.2% pro forma allowing for the expected KZT36bn equity injection) and reserves/loans ratio of 19.8% provide inadequate loss absorption capacity, in the agency’s view, given the scope of asset quality problems, and significant recapitalisation is likely to be needed. The very high proportion of foreign funding is a further weakness, and restructuring of this could ultimately be seen by the Kazakh authorities as the preferred way to support the capital position of the bank should its credit profile continue to weaken. The Negative Outlook reflects the potential for further asset quality deterioration, which could lead to the bank’s recapitalisation needs crystallising in the forthcoming months.
Although BCC’s reported loan impairment has increased (90 day overdues reported to the local regulator up to 4.4% from 2.5% in Q109; one day overdues up to12.2% from 7.7%), asset quality remains less bad than at peers. Loss absorption capacity is also reasonable, with the end-Q109 regulatory capital ratio standing at 18.3% and reserves/loans ratio 10.2%, and, as at Halyk, the proportion of foreign funding is more moderate than at peers. The Evolving Outlook reflects the potential for BCC to be downgraded further, should asset quality continue to deteriorate without minority shareholder Kookmin Bank (‘A+’/Negative Outlook) completing its takeover of the bank. However, the Outlook also takes into account the potential for a multi-notch upgrade of BCC should Kookmin ultimately increase its ownership from the current 30% to a majority stake and become a strategic shareholder of the bank.
The downgrade and RWN on AF reflect increased uncertainty about the readiness of the Kazakh authorities to support the company, and the risk that deterioration in the company’s credit profile could result in it needing to restructure its liabilities. AF’s credit profile is undermined by its weak capital and liquidity positions, deteriorating asset quality, high individual borrower concentrations and exposure to the construction/real estate sector and high dependence on foreign wholesale funding.
The downgrades reflect a combination of support and asset quality concerns. Fitch has revised downwards its expectations of government support for the country’s leading financial institutions following the defaults of BTA Bank (‘RD’ (Restricted Default)) and Alliance Bank JSC (‘RD’) and the agency’s understanding that there is now a limited willingness on the part of the Kazakh authorities to provide further capital support to the banking sector. In Fitch’s view, the Kazakh authorities might consider moderate further capital injections, beyond those already announced, for the country’s leading banks, but substantial contributions are now unlikely to be forthcoming. At the same time, Fitch’s concerns about banks’ potential capital requirements have increased following further sharp deterioration in reported asset quality in Q109 and reviews of individual banks’ loan books during recent meetings. In the agency’s view, reported asset quality metrics are likely to continue to worsen in the next few months as the extent of underlying problems in banks’ loan books becomes more apparent, portfolios continue to season and the impact of the February 2009 KZT devaluation continues to feed through into loan performance.
Halyk’s reported asset quality has deteriorated sharply, with loans overdue by 90 days according to local regulatory data up to 8.7% at end-Q109 from 6.4% at end-2008, and those overdue by one day increasing to a high 22% from 13.1%. The regulatory total capital ratio of 11.3% at end-Q109 (pro forma 13.1% allowing for the expected KZT33bn preference share issue) and reserves/gross loans ratio of 14.4% provide only limited loss absorption capacity, given asset quality trends. Relative to KKB, Halyk’s credit profile is supported by its somewhat less high risk loan book, the much lower proportion of foreign funding (reducing the potential attractiveness of debt restructuring), the bank’s smaller size (reducing the potential cost of government support) and the close relationship between the ultimate majority shareholders (the President’s daughter and son-in-law) and the Kazakh authorities. However, if asset quality continues to deteriorate without further new capital injections (beyond the planned KZT33bn) coming in, Halyk will likely be downgraded further, a risk reflected in the Negative Outlook on the bank.
The recent worsening in reported asset quality numbers at KKB has not been as sharp as at some peers (90 day overdues reported to the local regulator up to 6.3% from 5.4% during Q109; one day overdues up to 16% from 11.5%). However, in Fitch’s view these numbers severely underestimate the scope of asset quality problems at the bank, with a significant part of the portfolio already restructured and the majority of the bank’s largest loans showing clear signs of impairment. The regulatory capital ratio of 12.1% at end-Q109 (13.2% pro forma allowing for the expected KZT36bn equity injection) and reserves/loans ratio of 19.8% provide inadequate loss absorption capacity, in the agency’s view, given the scope of asset quality problems, and significant recapitalisation is likely to be needed. The very high proportion of foreign funding is a further weakness, and restructuring of this could ultimately be seen by the Kazakh authorities as the preferred way to support the capital position of the bank should its credit profile continue to weaken. The Negative Outlook reflects the potential for further asset quality deterioration, which could lead to the bank’s recapitalisation needs crystallising in the forthcoming months.
Although BCC’s reported loan impairment has increased (90 day overdues reported to the local regulator up to 4.4% from 2.5% in Q109; one day overdues up to12.2% from 7.7%), asset quality remains less bad than at peers. Loss absorption capacity is also reasonable, with the end-Q109 regulatory capital ratio standing at 18.3% and reserves/loans ratio 10.2%, and, as at Halyk, the proportion of foreign funding is more moderate than at peers. The Evolving Outlook reflects the potential for BCC to be downgraded further, should asset quality continue to deteriorate without minority shareholder Kookmin Bank (‘A+’/Negative Outlook) completing its takeover of the bank. However, the Outlook also takes into account the potential for a multi-notch upgrade of BCC should Kookmin ultimately increase its ownership from the current 30% to a majority stake and become a strategic shareholder of the bank.
The downgrade and RWN on AF reflect increased uncertainty about the readiness of the Kazakh authorities to support the company, and the risk that deterioration in the company’s credit profile could result in it needing to restructure its liabilities. AF’s credit profile is undermined by its weak capital and liquidity positions, deteriorating asset quality, high individual borrower concentrations and exposure to the construction/real estate sector and high dependence on foreign wholesale funding.
Non-profit/charity organizations in the U.S. may be required by law to give some minimum percent of their revenue to their charity cause. I am not sure about the details. The Livestrong Foundation is already gives a fairly low percentage compared to similar operations.
whiteboytrash
BANNED
BroDeal said:
The truth of the "foundation":
Firstly, despite the claims of some, the LAF does not make any significant contribution to the field of cancer research. Of the 270 million US dollars the LAF has raised, just 19.1 million has gone to cancer research. This is a mere drop in the ocean of the billion dollar world of cancer research.
Secondly the LAF does not directly save lives by paying for cancer treatment. In fact, the LAF says that it`s primary aim is to: `help you understand what to expect, teach you what questions to ask and give you one-on-one support along the way. We help you learn about your treatment options`.
Many would argue that Armstrong could help cancer sufferers far more by persuading his corporate and Republican buddies to support the provision of universal health care in the USA.
Thirdly, the LAF is not on the list of charities approved by charity watchdog organisations, largely because it spends so much of what it receives on promoting the LAF. Of the 270 million dollars it has raised, a whopping 45% has gone on promoting the LAF. (And so, of course, Lance Armstrong). See
http://www.charitywatch.org/articles/cancer.html
Figures such as those above must cause one to wonder whether the true purpose of the LAF is to provide Armstrong with a PR shield which acts to deflect criticism as to how he achieved his Tour `wins`. Stephanie McIlvain (his former personal liaison with Oakley) certainly seems to believe this, as she made clear in that talk she had with Greg Lemond. (The one where she also admits that she heard Armstrong admit to doping). See:
http://j.b5z.net/i/u/2132106/m/gregstef.mp3
Fourthly, foundations are not always created for genuinely philanthropic reasons. The sports philanthropy project says the following of foundations created in the names of sports stars:
`Foundations... serve two immediate purposes: They can provide a hefty and long-term tax deduction on windfall signing bonuses and salaries. And they can supply positive public relations, if they flourish.
...On its own Web site, the National Heritage Foundation lists several reasons why agents should encourage their clients to start foundations. For one thing, agents may continue to be paid from the foundation after the athletes' retirement. Also listed: Community prestige, lower taxable income and the Pester Factor.
"Athletes are besieged with requests for funds by almost everyone they see," the site offers. "They would be able to say, 'All these matters are handled by my foundation.'"
On the 990 tax forms, charity for the wrong reason still counts as a write-off.`
http://www.sportsphilanthropyprojec...ails.php?id=426
Of course, Armstrong is not alone in his `good work`. Others who operate similar PR scams, sorry, who are involved in similar work for good causes, include Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton...
http://www.floydlandisfoundation.org/
http://www.tylerhamilton.com/
Astana on Ventoux
Dimspace, thanks for that; I just had some vague recollections.
Another is I think, but could be wrong, Mayo beat Armstrong decisively on Ventoux during one Dauphine.
I just see Ventoux as ideal for Contador and Schleck.
Dimspace, thanks for that; I just had some vague recollections.
Another is I think, but could be wrong, Mayo beat Armstrong decisively on Ventoux during one Dauphine.
I just see Ventoux as ideal for Contador and Schleck.
whiteboytrash said:
Great. Forty-five cents of every dollar is apparently used by Armstrong to fly around the world, stay at first class hotels, and live high on the hog. What a scam that is.
whiteboytrash
BANNED
BroDeal said:
He's not collecting a salary from Astana therefore pays no tax and to fly around the word takin blow is paid for from donations at LAF. Which also is tax deductable. Meaning you & I get nothing from this rock-star rort ! The guy don't pay tax. He recieved 1 million of tax payers money for the TDU and how many people turned up to his 15 minute presentation ? 87 ! Well sorry how many paid to see his presentation ? 86 leaving over 300 empty seats. Rort.
Could something be brewing with Lance and the Governor of Colorado buying out Astana? That would be very cool to see a international pro team (old Astana) stationed in Boulder.
Excellent post there WBT. Thanks for supplying all the links and doing your homework. Very compelling information there. And just more disappointing news for our sport if you ask me. Lance reminds me of the former governor of his state.
Robert Merivel said:
he should be calling George W Bush to help him bull**** the world once more
What's odd to me is that the Russian mob is running out of money and can't seem to pay the team.
He should also be calling Billary Clinton and the other Demo's to also help him Bull**** the world once more. Since they all agreed with George W Bush and you can't tell me that the Clintons didn't have the same information that G. W had to commit on your statement above.
You left wing loons are all the same. Blame everyone but yourself and want everyone but yourself to take care of you.
Remember there are also Republicans that ride and read this forum.
You left wing loons are all the same. Blame everyone but yourself and want everyone but yourself to take care of you.
Remember there are also Republicans that ride and read this forum.
whiteboytrash said:
He is a republican, and I believe I saw him at one of those Tea bagging parties recently.
I hope he is a Republican. If I made the money he did why would I want the government to give it to people that didn't. Tax for roads and public works is fine. Tax to bail out banks and businesses is a different story. Is it the Gov't responsibility to decide what company succeeds and what company fails? The answer is "NO". Is it the Gov't's responsibility to provide everything for the people "NO"? I don't make a lot of money but do not want the gov't taking my money away from my family and giving it to some bumb down the street because he doesn't want to work or made bad decision's to get where he is at. That is what the Tea Party's were all about.
I have seen Lance hang out with John Kerry but does that make him a Demo. The answer is "NO".
I have seen Lance hang out with John Kerry but does that make him a Demo. The answer is "NO".
cyclevelo said:
I hate to see this thread get political, but BS like this can't stand.
These recent Tea Parties were pure partisan tripe. Where were all you concerned "tea baggers" when GWB and the Republican majority were pissing our tax money into the Persian Gulf sand?
Armstrong rides Giro to raise funds for Astana
My theory is that Armstrong is riding the Giro not just to raise money for cancer; he's going to pass the donation hat for three weeks, on every stage, to raise money to keep Astana financially afloat. 2 million works out to about $100,000 oer stage. Lance can do it, baby. Check out my comedy cycling bog Twisted Spoke for the whole story.
The GCW said:
My theory is that Armstrong is riding the Giro not just to raise money for cancer; he's going to pass the donation hat for three weeks, on every stage, to raise money to keep Astana financially afloat. 2 million works out to about $100,000 oer stage. Lance can do it, baby. Check out my comedy cycling bog Twisted Spoke for the whole story.
Me too, because I don't like him too much.cyclevelo said:
cyclevelo said:
Because if you would have ended up on the other side of the economic spectrum, you would have wanted your basic needs met. It's called maximizing the minimum.
Define "public" works... Does that include health care, education, elections, the judicial process, land preservation, the death penalty, taking care of the elderly, refugees, veterans, fighting wars, supporting the weapons industry, taking care of the mentally ill, infusing religion in the bureaucracy, improving the railway network, the internet infrastructure? Someone is going to foot the bill.cyclevelo said:
cyclevelo said:
The government before the current one already decided which companies it wanted to succeed and which it did not, merely by passing 'financial and economic' legislation. As a matter of fact, every government favours certain industries and by means of legislation, it determines the criteria, and hence the basis for success and failure. And to make all of this possible, your tax dollars are used, regardless of your political orientation
cyclevelo said:
I don't know what a lot of money is, but if it is as little as you pretend it is, you probably got a tax return. And with regard to homeless people down the street, high chance it's Vet, who you wanted to fight a war years or decades ago, while you supported him with a silly little bumper sticker saying 'support our troops'. I am glad you never made a bad decision, you better keep it that way, because otherwise you'll have a jolly good time in the streets.
cyclevelo said:
The Boston tea party was about taxation without representation. You've got representation, so stop complaining about taxation. If you don't like what government does with your bucks, go emigrate to the country that always uses your tax dollars the way you think it should be used.
cyclevelo said:
I have seen him with Bill Clinton as well, I think they were smoking cigars...
md2020 said:
They were pushing for the removal of all regulations on capitalism, which destroyed the world economy. Now they are outraged that money is being spent to alleviate the mess they caused. Guess they never got the message about what an ounce of prevention is worth.
TRENDING THREADS
-
World Championships 2024: Men's Road Race (September 29)- Started by Devil's Elbow
- Replies: 2K
-
Il Lombardia 2024, one day monument, October 12, farewell to Domenico Pozzovivo- Started by Lequack
- Replies: 203
-
Coppa Bernocchi Oct 7/Tre Valli Varesine Oct 8/Gran Piemonte Oct 10- Started by Berniece
- Replies: 284
-
-
Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread- Started by DNP-Old
- Replies: 28K
-
Teams & Riders The Great Big Cycling Transfers, Extensions, and Rumours Thread- Started by RedheadDane
- Replies: 11K
-
Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread- Started by Lequack
- Replies: 21K
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram