Will Chris Boardman be on the French list for taking EPO.

[esafosfina]

Both he and Peter Keen have some questions to answer... how did CB go from a very distant 'also-ran' at Stuttgart in 91 to catching Jens Lehman at the Games the next year? I'll give you one possible answer: EPO. Which was discussed in the soigneur's room at the GB hotel... If you doubt my source, by all means ask Daryl Webster, Dave Legrys etc etc... If Chris has nothing to fear, let him post on here... he may have simply been 'curious' as to how to procure... but I very much doubt it. And you can bet your last dollar that BC (or BCF, as it was) will close ranks on this one...

Yours, the third man.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Boardman should have two samples so it would really suck if both degraded to an untestable level. Will be interesting to see who the clean results are, just guessing here but I would say they came from later in the Tour after the raids etc. Chances are some riders dumped their EPO supplies and were riding as close to eau claire as possible.

I would say guys who were not contending for anything might not have risked being caught in possession.

Actually, just thinking it could be worse than that - from memory the Vrijman report stated there were well over 100 tests performed during the 98 Tour, and only 60 of those managed to be used for testing.

Edit: - Ya, I just checked the Vrijman report (page 56) and if confirmed my fears, in total there were 102 samples from the 98 Tour, only 60 were found to be used in retesting.

If its the latter category, unfortunately it means no one is the wiser.

Sadly, I agree and that would be most unfortunate. Hopefully it's not the case.

 

[horsinabout]

Being a professional doesn't mean the same thing as doping. You are talking about someone that had the hour record. He knew how to train and take care of himself. Doping doesn't not equate being professional. It is kind of disgusting you think that if someone rode clean, they are being unprofessional.

Bike handling on track is a lot harder than you think. When Pharmstrong was talking about breaking the hour record, he went out to a track and invited select people from the media to watch a tryout. He could barely stay upright on the track. He never talked about the hour record after that.

To ride the bike that he put together and stay upright was hard. To break the hour record in that goofy position is amazing.

Being a professional doesn't mean the same thing as doping.

Graeme Obree was a quintessential amature (not the same as unprofessional), it was only when he got offered a professional contact did he get offered dope - Fact.

It is kind of disgusting you think that if someone rode clean, they are being unprofessional.

Obree was a one off, he was unique and was a specialist pursuiter /TT and to turn pro he was expected to ride in bunch racing, that was not his main skill set. He did get offered doping when he turned pro - Fact.

Bike handling on track is a lot harder than you think. When Pharmstrong was talking about breaking the hour record, he went out to a track and invited select people from the media to watch a tryout. He could barely stay upright on the track. He never talked about the hour record after that.

Spare me the condescension, as you have no idea what knowledge I have on this subject or experience.

To ride the bike that he put together and stay upright was hard. To break the hour record in that goofy position is amazing

Not arguing with this, but professional racing required Obree to do group racing, which Obree had little experience of and it is a fact that he had problems in the bunch - I think it is kind of disgusting that on more than one occasion you have condescended me on this forum and twisted what I say....

 

[mikehammer67]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_at_the_1996_Summer_Olympics_-_Men's_time_trial


hmmm

 

[andy1234]

Both he and Peter Keen have some questions to answer... how did CB go from a very distant 'also-ran' at Stuttgart in 91 to catching Jens Lehman at the Games the next year? I'll give you one possible answer: EPO. Which was discussed in the soigneur's room at the GB hotel... If you doubt my source, by all means ask Daryl Webster, Dave Legrys etc etc... If Chris has nothing to fear, let him post on here... he may have simply been 'curious' as to how to procure... but I very much doubt it. And you can bet your last dollar that BC (or BCF, as it was) will close ranks on this one...

Yours, the third man.

Yeah, also ran 5th qualifier in Stuttgart, and world amateur 5km record holder in the same year.

Colin, If you are confident in your source, name him here or PM me.
Darryl couldn't be trusted as far as you could throw him, when it comes to Boardman, so it better be someone else.....

 

[esafosfina]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_at_the_1996_Summer_Olympics_-_Men's_time_trial


hmmm

Haha! Love it... go through those names and place an asterix next to the suspected ones, ffs.

 

[esafosfina]

Colin, If you are confident in your source, name him here or PM me.
Darryl couldn't be trusted as far as you could throw him, when it comes to Boardman, so it better be someone else.....

Andy, I'll pm you... I have been warned off so many times by 'people' in the know that it's become a farce...

 

[Benotti69]

Haha! Love it... go through those names and place an asterix next to the suspected ones, ffs.

Easier to place an asterix to the ones who were not suspect.

 

[Netserk]

Easier to place an asterix to the ones who were not suspect.

Isn't that already done?

 

[Zweistein]

I think it is kind of disgusting that on more than one occasion you have condescended me on this forum and twisted what I say....

It kind of helps when you don't troll and flat out make stuff up like you did in the Lemond thread.

 

[Athame]

It kind of helps when you don't troll and flat out make stuff up like you did in the Lemond thread.

You know, I just feel compelled to say that, ... I think I love this place--and I don't even know that those two are talking about

 

[Darryl Webster]

Graeme Obree had neither the professionalism, management set up or the wherewithal to dope - so this line of inquiry should be closed.

Chris Broardman on the other hand had all of the above, a careering coach, was a BCF pet project and he beat the world pursuit record and Rominger's hour record. So lines of inquiry are open.

I think Boardman did what he had to do for the specific unique specialism (pursuiting and TT) he was doing at the time, and how he was making his six figure salary.

And if the forum tries to turn Boardman into the next LeMond complete with halo, then I think it will be more solipsism than I can take.

Nailed it,

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Bike handling on track is a lot harder than you think. When Pharmstrong was talking about breaking the hour record, he went out to a track and invited select people from the media to watch a tryout. He could barely stay upright on the track. He never talked about the hour record after that.

At the risk of thread drift...

It's not that hard.

Armstrong's problem was simply his power to aero drag ratio (W/m^2) wasn't good enough to break the record, nor close enough to suggest refinement in equipment or position was going to be enough to close the W/m^2 gap.

The UCI Absolute hour record (using pursuit equipment rules) requires in the vicinity of 2,300W/m^2.

The UCI hour record (using the "Merckx" restricted track bike rules) requires in the vicinity of 1,700W/m^2.

Boardman was slippery through the air for a rider of his size, as was Obree. Both knew the importance of and were innovators in practical application of aerodynamics.

Armstrong's position on the bike and his morphology simply meant that despite his power, he just wasn't fast enough.

 

[blackcat]

At the risk of thread drift...

It's not that hard.

Armstrong's problem was simply his power to aero drag ratio (W/m^2) wasn't good enough to break the record, nor close enough to suggest refinement in equipment or position was going to be enough to close the W/m^2 gap.

The UCI Absolute hour record (using pursuit equipment rules) requires in the vicinity of 2,300W/m^2.

The UCI hour record (using the "Merckx" restricted track bike rules) requires in the vicinity of 1,700W/m^2.

Boardman was slippery through the air for a rider of his size, as was Obree. Both knew the importance of and were innovators in practical application of aerodynamics.

Armstrong's position on the bike and his morphology simply meant that despite his power, he just wasn't fast enough.

i dont think Armstrong gave a cr@p about it.

remember how this was seeded into the media.

Armstrong finds out Walsh is gonna have an article in a british paper, about his association with Ferrari. Before it hits the presses, Armstrong has an article in gazzetta dello sport about him looking at the hour record with Ferrari.

Armstrong also said he wanted to do the Vuelta with USPS and support Heras to pay him back.

Do we believe anything Armstrong has ever said?

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Do we believe anything Armstrong has ever said?

I don't see the relevance of what he said to what I wrote. He just wasn't fast enough.

Armstrong's lap times in LA velodrome testing at near threshold power on his (road) TT bike were ~ 17.7 seconds/lap (~51 km/h), when he needed to be able to ride under 16.0 seconds / lap for an hour to be anywhere near "competitive".

The aero improvements of a track specific TT bike over the road TT bike are just not going to find 7 seconds per km extra speed.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Lets ask Gilles Delion if he thinks Boardman was on the juice.

Dauphiné Libéré 1995
1 Miguel Indurain (Banesto - Pinarello) ESP 28h51'32''
2 Chris Boardman (Gan - Merckx) GBR 2'21''
48 Gilles Delion (Chazal - MBK - Koenig) FRA 57'50''

Gilles just got lazy, even Hein V. said so.

 

[andy1234]

Lets ask Gilles Delion if he thinks Boardman was on the juice.

Dauphiné Libéré 1995
1 Miguel Indurain (Banesto - Pinarello) ESP 28h51'32''
2 Chris Boardman (Gan - Merckx) GBR 2'21''
48 Gilles Delion (Chazal - MBK - Koenig) FRA 57'50''

Gilles just got lazy, even Hein V. said so.

Funny you should ask.
Delion is on record as stating that he thought Boardman was one of the few clean riders competing at the time. When he testified along with Nicolas Aubier in 97, Boardman was singled out as one of the few to be clean.
I think there is a Kimmage article on this, out there somewhere, and I believe it is referenced in the reprints of "rough ride"

Aubier:
"I don't think it's possible to make the top 100 on the ranking list without taking EPO, growth hormone or some of the other stuff... well know that's not true, Chris Boardman is there. During my first two years, I roomed with him a lot and never saw him take an injection. I still don't know how he managed to be competitive. "

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Lets ask Gilles Delion if he thinks Boardman was on the juice.

Dauphiné Libéré 1995
1 Miguel Indurain (Banesto - Pinarello) ESP 28h51'32''
2 Chris Boardman (Gan - Merckx) GBR 2'21''
48 Gilles Delion (Chazal - MBK - Koenig) FRA 57'50''

Gilles just got lazy, even Hein V. said so.

So where did Delion lose the time? Was it a target for him to win or was it training, did he crash? That result proves little.

I get the impression you and 86TDFWinner like to think that Lemond is the 'only gay in the village' as it were (That is not literal before you go off on one).

 

[Benotti69]

Funny you should ask.
Delion is on record as stating that he thought Boardman was one of the few clean riders competing at the time. When he testified along with Nicolas Aubier in 97, Boardman was singled out as one of the few to be clean.
I think there is a Kimmage article on this, out there somewhere, and I believe it is referenced in the reprints of "rough ride"

Aubier:
"I don't think it's possible to make the top 100 on the ranking list without taking EPO, growth hormone or some of the other stuff... well know that's not true, Chris Boardman is there. During my first two years, I roomed with him a lot and never saw him take an injection. I still don't know how he managed to be competitive. "

last line could be straight out of clinic post ..................

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

last line could be straight out of clinic post ..................

It is out of a clinic post.

 

[pmcg76]

Both he and Peter Keen have some questions to answer... how did CB go from a very distant 'also-ran' at Stuttgart in 91 to catching Jens Lehman at the Games the next year? I'll give you one possible answer: EPO. Which was discussed in the soigneur's room at the GB hotel... If you doubt my source, by all means ask Daryl Webster, Dave Legrys etc etc... If Chris has nothing to fear, let him post on here... he may have simply been 'curious' as to how to procure... but I very much doubt it. And you can bet your last dollar that BC (or BCF, as it was) will close ranks on this one...

Yours, the third man.

Well, you were present at those World Champs so you might have been party to that conversation or looking at one of the coaches present, you would have a source that would be very trustworthy to you. Thus I believe you when you say that conversation happened.

Looking back at those championships, I can see why EPO was discussed though. The two Germans Lehmann and Glockner blew everyone else out of the water. They both destroyed the previous world record by 5 seconds and nobody got within 4 seconds of them during those championships. Looking at Boardman's comments, he seemed really shocked at their improvements from Japan and was clearly struggling with his own performances.

In Barcelona, Glockner was not in the individual pursuit as it was one rider per nation and Lehmann didn't get anywhere near his times from Stuttgart, maybe the track was slower in Barcelona. Boardman did improve significantly though but then they always put that down to the bike and position.

As I said, this is why I find this subject interesting.

 

[Benotti69]

It is out of a clinic post.

Wow, Aubier is posting here.............

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Wow, Aubier is posting here.............

He might have. And I am guessing you would have told him that everyone in cycling dopes including him.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Funny you should ask.
Delion is on record as stating that he thought Boardman was one of the few clean riders competing at the time. When he testified along with Nicolas Aubier in 97, Boardman was singled out as one of the few to be clean.
I think there is a Kimmage article on this, out there somewhere, and I believe it is referenced in the reprints of "rough ride"

Aubier:
"I don't think it's possible to make the top 100 on the ranking list without taking EPO, growth hormone or some of the other stuff... well know that's not true, Chris Boardman is there. During my first two years, I roomed with him a lot and never saw him take an injection. I still don't know how he managed to be competitive. "

Reminds me of that studio 'fight' between Walsh and Roche on the Epo samples a year of ten ago. Roche defended himself with the fact he wasnt even racing then...

But, would like to see that Delion quote, if it exists.

Wasnt Peter Keen a bit of a fan of the Conconi way?

So where did Delion lose the time? Was it a target for him to win or was it training, did he crash? That result proves little.

I get the impression you and 86TDFWinner like to think that Lemond is the 'only gay in the village' as it were (That is not literal before you go off on one).

Please, not the 'that result proves little' narrative. Those results tell a lot Perico.

I wonder why you keep bringing up LeMond, I was clearly talking about Gilles Delion, a young French epo victim. Someone who actually achieved something before the alchemists destroyed the sport. While we know Boardman's best results came in the glorious epo days. Or is becoming national hill climbing champion the real deal? Or, beating Erik Dekker in a TT at Olympias Tour by 2 seconds?

If you want to talk up LeMond go to the appropriate thread.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Wasnt Peter Keen a bit of a fan of the Conconi way?Please, not the 'that result proves little' narrative. Those results tell a lot Perico.

Not without context they don't given what you are implying.

I wonder why you keep bringing up LeMond, I was clearly talking about Gilles Delion, a young French epo victim. Someone who actually achieved something before the alchemists destroyed the sport. While we know Boardman's best results came in the glorious epo days. Or is becoming national hill climbing champion the real deal? Or, beating Erik Dekker in a TT at Olympias Tour by 2 seconds?

Well, Boardman did race with the dodgy Gan team.

I would say becoming track Olympic gold medalist at 23 and then moving on to do well in TTs (esp. prologues) is the expected path of a rider like Boardman. That he also could do well in short stage races but tired in the longer ones also goes with that narrative of a clean rider. Could he be doping? Of course. But so far nothing in his record stands out to me.