Will Contador Be Juiced Up Again Upon His Return

[131313]

What seems more likely is we are seeing what a clean Contador looks like.

well, the sad part is that we really have no idea. Maybe your right; or, maybe he's still doping and he shouldn't actually be this good; or, maybe he's not doping and Purito and Piti and juiced to the gills....making him the best rider ever.... Bottom line, we have no idea, and as long as the sport is run by a governing body intent on manipulating the results to make a better product, I don't see this changing.

Contador has been very good and still animating the race with aggressive attacks, but has not been able to ride away with the kinds of explosive attacks we have seen from him in past grand tours. I don't think we'll be seeing these kinds of attacks from Contador or anyone else if they are truly riding clean.

This part I don't understand. You're always going to have guys who are better than other guys. If anything, if the field were truly clean I'd expect to see MORE of this, not less.

 

[the big ring]

This part I don't understand. You're always going to have guys who are better than other guys. If anything, if the field were truly clean I'd expect to see MORE of this, not less.

And less day in day out consistency over a 3 week period, yes? Or is it entirely natural to do a Wiggins or JRod for 3 weeks straight?

 

[Racelap]

Contador looked like a mere mortal as far back as 2011's TdF. One could speculate it was because he burnt himself out by having won the Giro or perhaps he was riding clean for fear of a second positive.

 

[131313]

And less day in day out consistency over a 3 week period, yes? Or is it entirely natural to do a Wiggins or JRod for 3 weeks straight?

Well, I think you'd see a small subset of guys competing for GT wins, though in reality that's no different than it is now. As LeMond once said, only a couple of guys have the genetics to recover well enough to win a GT. Of course, we have no idea if the guys winning GT's actually have the genetics or not.

To you question, I don't really recall pre-gunshot LeMond ever really having a bad day, but I could be wrong on that one. So, I guess I could see a truly talented guy not really having a bad day relative to his competition. Whether it's natural for Wiggins or Purito? Personally, I seriously doubt it.

 

[hfer07]

perhaps I am part of the few that are delighted with Contador's return to cycling-even if he is not winning the Vuelta-& likely won't for that matter...
The doping concerns from the OP are quite vain, because Alberto has indeed attacked endless times-which could indicate he's juiced-BUT-the kind of lethal attack that was expected from him isn't happening-so then the OP inclines the balance towards a "clean" performance....it cannot be both ways.

He might be riding clean this time-& his lack of top end performance may indicate that in comparison to previous "impressive" journeys-BUT to me he's already there. you have to account the endless interruptions that Alberto has had since the announcement of the +. His only truly preparation was for the Giro, which produced the best of him-after that, he's been off the rhythm of competition that he desired to be at. plus training alone won't get you there, no matter how hard & the amount of time can anyone dedicate, if there is no real reference of how hard the peloton is riding, & how much your rivals have either improve or decline in comparison to your own fitness....

 

[Big Doopie]

hey 131313, great posts here.

 

[LaFlorecita]

He's still doping.

 

[Ferminal]

I think this performance is pretty consistent with his last two GTs. The less ideal preparation for the Tour and Vuelta would account for a small performance drop.

 

[JPM London]

I don't know that Contador ever doped, neither do I know he was ever clean - however, I don't think his current showing is much different than what we have seen before. I think you very much have to take into account that he's only raced Eneco prior to this and there's no doubt there's a huge difference of being in racing form and not being it.

He's pretty much the only contender attacking. Again and again. He's attacking more on any flat stage in this Vuelta than both Schlecks combined during a full Tour.

The incredibly thing in this race is how that "red trailer" manages to stay on his wheel all the time

What I also really like is the pained expression in his face each and every time. Dope or no dope (and I certainly hope no) this is the most emotional, exciting, genuine, not-quitting-as-long as you can-ride, die-with-the-boots-on race in AGES.

 

[the big ring]

+1

The echelons on the flat stage where Valvede crashed were more exciting than the entirety of the Tour.

 

[RichWalk]

Well, I think you'd see a small subset of guys competing for GT wins, though in reality that's no different than it is now. As LeMond once said, only a couple of guys have the genetics to recover well enough to win a GT. Of course, we have no idea if the guys winning GT's actually have the genetics or not.

To you question, I don't really recall pre-gunshot LeMond ever really having a bad day, but I could be wrong on that one. So, I guess I could see a truly talented guy not really having a bad day relative to his competition. Whether it's natural for Wiggins or Purito? Personally, I seriously doubt it.

+1 on this, its all speculative at best, my take would be AC has backed off what ever he's been 'on' to a minimum, or perish the thought he's clean Purito an AV are both riding better than I've seen for years, RR possibly ever.

But hey its a fab grand tour and as we know thats all that really counts these days...........

 

[Fergoose]

As others suggest it is hard to have an idea if Contador is doping at or in the lead up to this Vuelta. When a guy has been caught cheating and his performance yo-yos about a bit it's often a case of "your guess is as good as mine". What I do have an idea of is:

Contador pre-2010 was on a different level to 2010-2011 (when he got his positive) in terms of power outputs on MTFs and his ability to shake off rivals. It does appear that Contador 2012 could be slightly inferior to the 2010/11 edition. Basically, his ability to sustain an acceleration and maintain a high tempo is falling year on year even as he matures towards what is recognised in the sport as an athelete's physical peak.

He's gone from untouchable (barring Rasmussen) to someone that multiple riders can live with on any given stage and a rider who fades badly towards the end of an MTF if he has made a solo-attack for home one or two kilometres out. As others suggest, if he had more race preparation he might be able to approach his 2010/11 levels again and sustain a slightly better tempo.

From this I think it's pretty straightforward to conclude Contador's performance was heavily enhanced by doping pre-2010 and that the influence of PEDs on his performance since then has declined.

Rodriguez keeping up with a 2007-2009 edition of Contador who accelerates then maintains a high tempo to the finish would be 100% laughable. Rodriguez keeping up with the 2012 Contador who is the shadow of his former self is far more credible. Particularly as Contador has dropped him a couple of times where both Rodriguez & Valverde have caught back up primarily because Contador has faded (rather than anything superhuman by Rodriguez).

EDIT: Is it reasonable to be a touch suspicious of JRod? Absolutely

 

[ebandit]

?

commentators often state 'climbers only have 4 decent attacks in their legs'

but in the vuelta we see alberto attacking up to a dozen times

and excelling in the time trial

that sure is suspicious

 

[hrotha]

I don't see why he'd stop doping after his suspension if he didn't stop after his positive. He's as likely to be clean now as in 2011.

 

[JimmyFingers]

there's a definite 'he's doping a little but it's ok because the race is exciting' which is a stark contrast to the clinic's reaction to Sky and the Tour.

Didn't Anquetil say that without drugs everyone will ride along at 15km, but with drugs they will be at 25k and entertaining everyone?

Its seems there is a sliding scale of doping acceptability that runs inverse to the style or panache displayed

 

[LaFlorecita]

I don't see why he'd stop doping after his suspension if he didn't stop after his positive. He's as likely to be clean now as in 2011.

This is how I think as well. Either he stopped doping after he tested positive or he's still doping.

 

[JPM London]

This is how I think as well. Either he stopped doping after he tested positive or he's still doping.

Or maybe he didn't dope before, but got a suspension and thought "To heck with it - might as well dope now!". So now he'd be full on the juice, but apparently it's not working very well...

 

[meat puppet]

or, assuming that he was juicing before, despite all its flaws the blood passport would as it were kiss and tell if he quit now

speculation is so much fun

 

[Blakeslee]

I think this performance is pretty consistent with his last two GTs. The less ideal preparation for the Tour and Vuelta would account for a small performance drop.

I see a significant drop between Contador in the 2011 Giro (and his previous grand tours) to what we are seeing from him now. He did have a similar performance to what he is doing now in the 2011 Tour, however that performance seemed more a result of fatigue from attempting two grand tours back to back (similar to what we are seeing from Froome in the Vuelta).

 

[Blakeslee]

This part I don't understand. You're always going to have guys who are better than other guys. If anything, if the field were truly clean I'd expect to see MORE of this, not less.

It's not so much the gaps between riders, it's the explosiveness and super human quality of the attacks. Contador's attacks used to look an awful lot like the kinds of things we saw from Pantani, Armstrong, and briefly Ricco.

 

[therhodeo]

commentators often state 'climbers only have 4 decent attacks in their legs'

And look at how right most of those commentators are on other subjects............

 

[Ferminal]

I see a significant drop between Contador in the 2011 Giro to what we are seeing from him now. He did have a similar performance to what he is doing now in the 2011 Tour, however that performance seemed more a result of fatigue from attempting two grand tours back to back (similar to what we are seeing from Froome in the Vuelta).

Because he can't drop Rodriguez..?

 

[Blakeslee]

Because he can't drop Rodriguez..?

Contador in the past has been untouchable in the grand tours (including the 2011 Giro). His attacks were so explosive he left everyone else behind, usually putting minutes into the rest of the field. He's been riding very well in the Vuelta, but his attacks clearly are not at the same kind of dominant level they were in the past.

 

[lactictac]

Racing of any sort is always a relative circumstance. The questions are whether the winner is indeed the fastest or whether the runner(s)-up is the slower. It is almost self-serving – but – Is winner the #1 because he is indeed the fastest? Or is the winner the #1 because the others are slower?

Is AC really slowing down, having lost his elan? Or are his adversaries getting quicker. One or the other, or both. We shall never know. And so it is regardless of PEDs.

 

[luckyboy]

Why are people saying that this Vuelta (and Tour 2011) is evidence of Contador's decline as a rider? The last time anybody saw him in top form was the Giro. Ranking a Contador who hasn't raced for 7 months (and was fatigued/injured at the Tour) against a peak-form Contador from previous years doesn't make any sense.

commentators often state 'climbers only have 4 decent attacks in their legs'

People can say anything but it doesn't make it true.