Will Contador Be Juiced Up Again Upon His Return

[Red Rick]

I dislike the fact that any fluctuations in from are a result of doping. Contador is better this year, must be better dope. Sure he's juicing, but he also trained a lot better this winter, that may be part of his improvement too

 

[LaFlorecita]

I dislike the fact that any fluctuations in from are a result of doping. Contador is better this year, must be better dope. Sure he's juicing, but he also trained a lot better this winter, that may be part of his improvement too

I think Contador doped last year anyway, I mean I don't see why he wouldn't stop in 2011 after he tested +, wouldn't stop in 2012 after he got banned, but would stop in 2013 and then start again in 2014

 

[Nilsson]

So what, let me get this straight, Contador was doping throughout 2011 when he was appealing a doping infraction (and any further offence would have meant an 8 year/lifetime ban), doped when he came back to win the Vuelta, stopped doping last year because he was worried about a further ban, before starting to dope again this year? Meanwhile Andy, under no more suspicion than any other 'clean' rider (no drugs offences or accusations to deal with), decided to lay low while his old closest rival was banned/underperforming, just 'because', while his brother Frank decided not to lay low at all and has returned from his ban with a full on business as usual programme?

FFS. Why would any of them do that? What possible reason would they have for waiting a year or two (or not at all in Frank Schleck's case as he was banned last year) before starting to dope again?

Honestly I get it why everyone is suspicious about top-level cyclists, whether that's Sky or Bertie or whatever. And honestly, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they really are all doping.

But really, can't people come up with a bit more panache in their accusations? Things that don't just revolve around 'rider x won today, ergo rider x is doping'. You do understand that if you could absolutely guarantee everyone was clean, one of the riders would still be the strongest, and every now and then you'd get a day like yesterday?

Hats off to you for this thoughtful and elaborate post.

 

[proffate]

You do understand that if you could absolutely guarantee everyone was clean, one of the riders would still be the strongest, and every now and then you'd get a day like yesterday?

it's not just the win, it's the degree to which he outclassed all his rivals

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I dislike the fact that any fluctuations in from are a result of doping. Contador is better this year, must be better dope. Sure he's juicing, but he also trained a lot better this winter, that may be part of his improvement too

It's not just Contador, it's Kreuziger, too - who had already improved a great deal last year. It looks fishy as hell.

 

[RiccoDinko]

Contador is focused on racing and training like never before, give the kid a break.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Nobody knows how good Contador really is. He has doped his entire career.

You know that for a fact or just because he is good and Spanish? I recognize that he is smack in the middle of one of the most rampant periods of doping. Do we infer he always doped because of that? If so then I suppose your opinion is valid. Unless it is omerta, we don't have the benefit of other riders outing him like they did Lance.

Maybe he knows that for a fact because he is a grand tour winner? Problem is any other GT winner could be substituted and the statement would be just as valid. And Lance wasn't outed because a bunch of "clean" riders got ****ed at him for doping to beat them, he was outed because USADA held a gun to their collective heads.

 

[EnacheV]

I just hope he is clean

Would be depressing to find out that he doped after he wins next 2-3 TdF's and some younger people missed their chances because of him.

Same for Froome.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I just hope he is clean

Would be depressing to find out that he doped after he wins next 2-3 TdF's and some younger people missed their chances because of him.

Same for Froome.

Your optimism is so cute.

 

[pmcg76]

So what, let me get this straight, Contador was doping throughout 2011 when he was appealing a doping infraction (and any further offence would have meant an 8 year/lifetime ban), doped when he came back to win the Vuelta, stopped doping last year because he was worried about a further ban, before starting to dope again this year? Meanwhile Andy, under no more suspicion than any other 'clean' rider (no drugs offences or accusations to deal with), decided to lay low while his old closest rival was banned/underperforming, just 'because', while his brother Frank decided not to lay low at all and has returned from his ban with a full on business as usual programme?

FFS. Why would any of them do that? What possible reason would they have for waiting a year or two (or not at all in Frank Schleck's case as he was banned last year) before starting to dope again?

Honestly I get it why everyone is suspicious about top-level cyclists, whether that's Sky or Bertie or whatever. And honestly, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they really are all doping.

But really, can't people come up with a bit more panache in their accusations? Things that don't just revolve around 'rider x won today, ergo rider x is doping'. You do understand that if you could absolutely guarantee everyone was clean, one of the riders would still be the strongest, and every now and then you'd get a day like yesterday?

+ 1

This is a bit like Kwiatowski, last week he was doped to the max because he beat Sagan in an uphill finish. This week the belief is OPQS don't dope their GC riders as much, so who was it that was leading T-A but lost loads of time, oh yeah the same guy who was supposedly doped to the max last week. For the record Sagan finished ahead of Kwiatowski yesterday. Even if all doped, good days and bad days still happen.

 

[The Hitch]

The first time I saw accusations against Kwiatkowski was when radioshack dominated the tt at 3 days, he surprised a lot of people and rsh surprised a lot of people dominating the top 10 winning the overall with roessler, all under brunyeel.

I understand the reaction to his win last week because the field was super good and he rode away from them with ease. There's a difference between a clean rider winning if the cards fall into place, and a clean rider riding away from yhe likes of Valverde (in the form of his life) kreuziger and cancellara, then breaking Sagan as if he was some breakaway rider who had been out front for 250k.

The fact that he's riding for a very dodgy team that has iburaugen as it's doctor increases the suspicion.

As for contador well there is no redeemable feature to that performance. The team owner is Oleg who doped his riders on his previous team. The manager is Riis who doped both himself and his riders. The main domestique is kreuziger who was a Ferrari client while top 10ing the tdf. The coach is an ex sky coach who also doped himself. The rider is Alberto Contador who failed a drugs test and seems to have been a Fuentes client. Doing a 30k solo to beat his opponents by 2 minutes.

 

[Hugh Januss]

+ 1

This is a bit like Kwiatowski, last week he was doped to the max because he beat Sagan in an uphill finish. This week the belief is OPQS don't dope their GC riders as much, so who was it that was leading T-A but lost loads of time, oh yeah the same guy who was supposedly doped to the max last week. For the record Sagan finished ahead of Kwiatowski yesterday. Even if all doped, good days and bad days still happen.

This observation looses steam because you are taking comments from different people and trying to make them into some sort of inconsistent "group think". Different posters, different opinions. The only real 'group think" in the clinic is that a lot of pros dope, and Lance is an *******.
Other than that except in cases like Froome and Horner I am amused by people wanting to attribute a good performance solely to doping, of course they are doping, so are most of the guys they beat.
The field as a whole is "cleaner" now, if by cleaner we mean restricted to receiving a slightly lesser benefit from doping to stay within BP limits. That is all.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Maybe because his W/kg isn't that ridiculous? The figure I've seen for Guardiagrele is 5.3 W/kg. His power output on Lanciano will undoubtedly be higher but I haven't seen any calculations for it. Vetooo said on Twitter he'd calculate it.

@ammattipyoraily: #Tirreno, Stage 5. Passo Lanciano (last 5.24 km, 8.63 %)
Alberto Contador: 16 min 42 sec, 18.83 Kph, VAM 1624 m/h
( 5.67 W/kg [DrF] *wind? )

Nothing extreme

 

[pmcg76]

This observation looses steam because you are taking comments from different people and trying to make them into some sort of inconsistent "group think". Different posters, different opinions. The only real 'group think" in the clinic is that a lot of pros dope, and Lance is an *******.
Other than that except in cases like Froome and Horner I am amused by people wanting to attribute a good performance solely to doping, of course they are doping, so are most of the guys they beat.
The field as a whole is "cleaner" now, if by cleaner we mean restricted to receiving a slightly lesser benefit from doping to stay within BP limits. That is all.

Nope there are a few people who were claiming Kwiatowski was doped big time last week who were saying OPQS do not dope their GC men as much. One is a mod. I think there would have been a few more to agree except they are banned. The rest remain mostly silent as they have no explanation that doesn't contradict their original accusation. If people want to claim rider X is doped then fine but it should require a little more than they won a race, and admit that if a rider can have bad days, they can also have super days doping or not.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Nope there are a few people who were claiming Kwiatowski was doped big time last week who were saying OPQS do not dope their GC men as much. One is a mod. I think there would have been a few more to agree except they are banned. The rest remain mostly silent as they have no explanation that doesn't contradict their original accusation. If people want to claim rider X is doped then fine but it should require a little more than they won a race, and admit that if a rider can have bad days, they can also have super days doping or not.

The team not doping GC men that much and Kwiatkowski doping himself to a higher level are not mutually exclusive, are they?
To me the fact that someone is racing at and competitive at the Pro Tour level is more of an indication of doping than any one individual result.
That being said, after watching the video of the finish yesterday, to me it was hardly reminiscent of 2007, 2009 or 2010's farcical uphill match sprints w/ Schecklete. If dropping super GT climbers like Simon Geschke and Ben King, while tacking up hill himself is suppose to be evidence of a return of Contador's super powers, hum, color me skeptical.

 

[roundabout]

If dropping super GT climbers like Simon Geschke and Ben King, while tacking up hill himself is suppose to be evidence of a return of Contador's super powers, hum, color me skeptical.

This is as silly as an average Sky fan defense.

losing 20 seconds to Peraud up the last bit is more telling.

but that was after a 33k solo.

 

[cycladianpirate]

Nope there are a few people who were claiming Kwiatowski was doped big time last week who were saying OPQS do not dope their GC men as much. One is a mod. I think there would have been a few more to agree except they are banned. The rest remain mostly silent as they have no explanation that doesn't contradict their original accusation. If people want to claim rider X is doped then fine but it should require a little more than they won a race, and admit that if a rider can have bad days, they can also have super days doping or not.

I had no idea that there was a Naivety Enhancing Drug (or NED for short) available. Can you micro dose it?

 

[The Hitch]

@ammattipyoraily: #Tirreno, Stage 5. Passo Lanciano (last 5.24 km, 8.63 %)
Alberto Contador: 16 min 42 sec, 18.83 Kph, VAM 1624 m/h
( 5.67 W/kg [DrF] *wind? )

Nothing extreme

well it's not like it was an mtf where he spent all his energy and stopped at the top. This was just the first half of his itt which included later pulling solo for 25 k of downhill and flat to catch and then drag a group outfront and then drop them all on a 30% climb.

The fact that when Geschke came back at him he looked around and vroomed away from him strongly suggests even then he wasn't at his limit.

 

[webbie146]

I just hope he is clean

Would be depressing to find out that he doped after he wins next 2-3 TdF's and some younger people missed their chances because of him.

Same for Froome.

Afcors he dopes, this is top sport

 

[LaFlorecita]

AC has had Steve DeJongue as his personnel trainer over the winter apparntly.

Wow... In how many ways can you butcher a name

Jk of course

 

[LaFlorecita]

Hitch my post was a response to this post:

I fund it funny that the usual W/Kg clowns like veloclinic and festinaboy keep it quiet today.

It's ok to raise doubts/make bad noise on some but not on others.

 

[pmcg76]

well it's not like it was an mtf where he spent all his energy and stopped at the top. This was just the first half of his itt which included later pulling solo for 25 k of downhill and flat to catch and then drag a group outfront and then drop them all on a 30% climb.

The fact that when Geschke came back at him he looked around and vroomed away from him strongly suggests even then he wasn't at his limit.

Dropping a few average pro riders who had been out in the break all-day is hardly amazing stuff even if they had a rest for 8km or so sitting on his wheel. When he zoomed away from Geschke, it looked like he put a huge gap into him on television but it was only 6 seconds which again is nothing amazing considering they respective levels on the pro rider table. Lets be honest if Contador and Geschke came to the bottom of such a climb together, you would normally expect Contador to put more than 6 seconds into him in 2k.

Also if Contador wasn't going full gas on the climb, then surely he was holding something back in reserve for the last 20k. Holding off Quintana on the climb was the most impressive part of the performance for me but in how good a shape is Quintana. It was a super impressive performance but dropping those guys on the final climb is hardly the part that is suspicious. It would be more what he did before that.

 

[Granville57]

I'm curious as to what the response might be if Contador arrives at the TdF in tip-top Bang Bang form...and still gets smoked by Froome/Porte/Wiggins.

Will that mean the Sky are just so damn good that they can pummel this proven and suspicious doper from Spain with their scientific edge?

Or will that prove that Contador is now clean (yet can still ride like it's 2007), and is obviously reduced to having to rely only on his inferior physical capabilities?

Hypothetical, of course. But isn't that what fuels most of the pre-Tour conversation?

 

[willbick]

surely the most suspicious part was when he put time into the chasing group of 6 or so riders taking turns in the descent/flat before the final climb when he was pulling the break riders.

 

[willbick]

I'm curious as to what the response might be if Contador arrives at the TdF in tip-top Bang Bang form...and still gets smoked by Froome/Porte/Wiggins.

Will that mean the Sky are just so damn good that they can pummel this proven and suspicious doper from Spain with their scientific edge?

Or will that prove that Contador is now clean (yet can still ride like it's 2007), and is obviously reduced to having to rely only on his inferior physical capabilities?

Hypothetical, of course. But isn't that what fuels most of the pre-Tour conversation?

froome wont pummel contador in T-A form