Will Contador help Armstrong on Ventoux?

[Wergeland]

Lance has only made Albertos tour more difficult. And thinking back at how Lance would never ever let any of his teammates ride for their own chances, Contador helping Lance for a podium position? Lance doesn't deserve that.

 

[rhubroma]

Apparently it is too nuanced for you. Sorry, but I can't help you with that. Worse, nobody can.

Man, you just don't get it. Nuance has nothing to do with anything here. You have always argued based on Lance's excuses, when in terms of what or what isn't offensive, that's for Sastre to decide. And you seem to be cluless about what the "offensive" is. Because if you want to say, as you always have in the past, that Lance refering to the Tour last year as a "joke," while taking particular note of Sastre and Vandevede's 1st and 5th placings respectively as evidence that it was a "joke," was not objectively offensive to Sastre, then you are plain clueless.

And again the naunce drivel you spew forth here, just makes you look like an even bigger a$$.

 

[Jonathan]

It's not about helping Lance per se.

It's about helping "a teammate" get on the podium simply because he's a teammate.

You know, the fact that AC clearly owes him nothing makes it that much more of an admirable gesture to help him never-the-less.

G'night!

There really is no reason for Contador to help Armstrong. There is a very good reason not to do so: helping someone else will invariably mean jeopardizing his own chances. That's what the whole leader/helper idea is about. Armstrong is the knecht of Contador, so Contador should not help Armstrong, just like the 13th Duke of Wymbourne isn't going to serve his butler drinks.

How should Contador help Armstrong? The only possible scenario is that F. Schleck or Wiggins have attacked and that Contador would try to bring them back with Armstrong in his wheel. That would be simply daft; even Bruyneel isn't going to allow such tactics.

It is likely that Contador will let Armstrong sprint to victory, if possible. However, the difference between that and 'helping' has already been pointed out.

 

[LugHugger]

Latest Wilcockson tweet:

"To all those who asked, AC has to be team player on Ventoux if he wants to gain stature in the peloton and in the media. We'll see Saturday."

Maybe he's figured this out, maybe not. Many of you obviously have not.

Wilcockson has his tongue so far down LA's shorts it's hilarious. He has no access to Contador and is just playing his LA fanboy fantasies out in the vain hope that by airing them, they might just come true.

 

[Jonathan]

There is no better way for Alberto Contador to be a team player than by doing only one thing: defend his yellow jersey. If that means using his helpers as dispensable commodities, that's fine.

 

[seldon71]

Ventoux-scenario

1st, rather early attack made by Klöden, shadowed by F.Schleck. Wiggo can't follow, Andy/Lance/Conta waiting.

Klödi & Fränk approx. 40 seconds ahead, Contador uses his explosion and bridges ALONE and goes to drive tempo to keep the trio alone.

Conta drags Klödi all the way up by riding tempo so that Fränk can not attack Klödi. In sprint, the best man takes the stage. That should be Alberto himself, but after making 80 % of work he may even lose it - doesn't matter.

Behind, Wiggins/Nibali can not make ground, Lance won't chase his own team mate in Klöden and Andy only helps the chase enough to secure his 2nd spot as Contador already proved his complete superiority by riding away...

Astana finishes with 2 men on podium and Alberto has definitely made amends for dropping Klödi earlier. Lance beats Wiggo & Nibali after staying on their wheels whole mountain.

Final overall :

Contador
A.Schleck
Klöden
F.Schleck
Lance
Wiggins
Nibali


Would the public then call Alberto a great team-mate & tactician as he not only dominated the Tour, but in the end even helped his teammate to rise to podium?

Or can Alberto ONLY prove himself as unselfish, good person by HELPING LANCE?

 

[Jonathan]

Conta drags Klödi all the way up by riding tempo so that Fränk can not attack Klödi.

I do not believe that will happen. Especially not with Klöden, who will take the lead no matter what he is feeling.

 

[seldon71]

I do not believe that will happen. Especially not with Klöden, who will take the lead no matter what he is feeling.

I don't believe that at all either... But as a speculative scenario, would that be classified as a great teammateship by Conta or would that also be wrong maneuveur as it would distance & hurt the chances of OTHER teammate in Armstrong.

 

[TRDean]

This is a ridiculous post since the CN Forum Mafia has made it so clear that AC doesn't need any help and hasn't received any.
You people have no special knowledge of the inner workings of these teams nor what different racers are thinking. It's all speculation on both sides.

Your a real jerk!

 

[TRDean]

This whole thing is a stupid assumption...LA has to be strong enough to win the stage. So far he has proved otherwise. Same for Sastre...he may want to win, but previous mountain stages would suggest otherwise. I look for Frank and Andy to attack as they have the whole Tour and only the strong will be able to go...maybe Lance, maybe not. But I don't think he is strong enough to win the stage.

 

[gttim!]

Can Armstrong beat the Schlecks on Ventoux?

No. Thread is moot once you accept this.

 

[jamfra67]

I don't believe that at all either... But as a speculative scenario, would that be classified as a great teammateship by Conta or would that also be wrong maneuveur as it would distance & hurt the chances of OTHER teammate in Armstrong.

Contador will be there to respond to all the attacks from the schleck brothers. The question is will Kloden and Armstrong be able to respond? The battle is between Frank Kloden Lance and Wiggins for a podium finish. The ventoux takes no prisoners. Kloden and Lance have to fight it on their own. Their rivals are Frank and Wiggins. The one who recovers best and climbs the best gets the podim. Contador has nothing to do with that. I place my bets on Kloden doing better than Lance. Right now Kloden owes nobody nothing as he has done his job. time for him to check for himself

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Man, you just don't get it. Nuance has nothing to do with anything here. You have always argued based on Lance's excuses, when in terms of what or what isn't offensive, that's for Sastre to decide. And you seem to be cluless about what the "offensive" is. Because if you want to say, as you always have in the past, that Lance refering to the Tour last year as a "joke," while taking particular note of Sastre and Vandevede's 1st and 5th placings respectively as evidence that it was a "joke," was not objectively offensive to Sastre, then you are plain clueless.

And again the naunce drivel you spew forth here, just makes you look like an even bigger a$$.

Last year:
1 Carlos Sastre Candil (Spa) Team CSC - Saxo Bank
2 Cadel Evans (Aus) Silence - Lotto 0.58
3 Bernhard Kohl (Aut) Gerolsteiner 1.13
4 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 2.10
5 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Team Garmin-Chipotle p/b H30 3.05


This year (so far):
14 Carlos Sastre Candil (Spa) Cervelo Test Team 0:15:26
29 Cadel Evans (Aus) Silence - Lotto 0:38:20
(Kohl is out for CERA)
43 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 0:52:47
8 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Garmin - Slipstream 0:10:08


That was Armstrong's point, and it has proven to be much more prophetic than anyone imagined at the time he made it. How you make that point without offending these guys, I don't know, but he obviously didn't do it. It was also obvious that he didn't mean to be offensive, but later realized it came off sounding like it was, so he apologized. So what? His original point stands. Last year's Tour was a bit of a joke (at the risk of offending Sastre again, considerably more than a bit, if you ask me).

 

[Señor_Contador]

He didn't realize that he wasn't even the 2nd strongest member of his current team, why would we think he would sacrifice on behalf of someone he clearly believes he's better than (just give him another year to get it together)?

No offense, but prior to the beginning of the Tour, Lance said himself that shape-wise he was between his best and worst Tour, meaning he was in fairly good shape.

His problem is that he does not realise he's been officialy run over by a new generation, much like LeMond in the Indurain era.

 

[TRDean]

Last year:
1 Carlos Sastre Candil (Spa) Team CSC - Saxo Bank
2 Cadel Evans (Aus) Silence - Lotto 0.58
3 Bernhard Kohl (Aut) Gerolsteiner 1.13
4 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 2.10
5 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Team Garmin-Chipotle p/b H30 3.05


This year (so far):
14 Carlos Sastre Candil (Spa) Cervelo Test Team 0:15:26
29 Cadel Evans (Aus) Silence - Lotto 0:38:20
(Kohl is out for CERA)
43 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 0:52:47
8 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Garmin - Slipstream 0:10:08


That was Armstrong's point, and it has proven to be much more prophetic than anyone imagined at the time he made it. How you make that point without offending these guys, I don't know, but he obviously didn't do it. It was also obvious that he didn't mean to be offensive, but later realized it came off sounding like it was, so he apologized. So what? His original point stands. Last year's Tour was a bit of a joke (at the risk of offending Sastre again, considerably more than a bit, if you ask me).

It has not been prophetic at all...you can't compare the two. Menchov is coming off the Giro win...the gaps would be different if 2008 had a TTT...these mountains have been a joke this year!! Can't compare. Would you please pull your head out of Armstrong's anus long enough to breath...you are loosing consciousness!!

 

[Amsterhammer]

That was Armstrong's point, and it has proven to be much more prophetic than anyone imagined at the time he made it. How you make that point without offending these guys, I don't know, but he obviously didn't do it. It was also obvious that he didn't mean to be offensive, but later realized it came off sounding like it was, so he apologized. So what? His original point stands. Last year's Tour was a bit of a joke (at the risk of offending Sastre again, considerably more than a bit, if you ask me).

Indeed, the point stands, but you should know by now that there's no sense in arguing with hateboys who are unable to view anything whatsoever to do with LA with any objectivity, due to their overpowering hate obsession.

 

[TRDean]

Indeed, the point stands, but you should know by now that there's no sense in arguing with hateboys who are unable to view anything whatsoever to do with LA with any objectivity, due to their overpowering hate obsession.

hammer...not a hateboy...but you can not compare the two races and call one a joke...is this one a joke because of the lack of mountains? maybe!!

 

[Señor_Contador]

Going back to the subject at hand... I do not think, in fact I'd bet my house on this, Contador will not allow Armgstrong to get ahead or win the stage.

 

[BroDeal]

Indeed, the point stands, but you should know by now that there's no sense in arguing with hateboys who are unable to view anything whatsoever to do with LA with any objectivity, due to their overpowering hate obsession.

Oh, look. Another post by the forum's chief sniffer complaining about everyone else. Looks like a new addition to the Amsterb!tch thread.

 

[Indurrey]

If by some strange happenstance AC and LA are alone in front (or in a very limited-number group), then AC would probably let him win the stage.

I can't imagine any scenario in which AC would just let the Schlecks go without giving them a chase, however. And if/when this happens, I really doubt LA will have the legs to keep up.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Last year:
1 Carlos Sastre Candil (Spa) Team CSC - Saxo Bank
2 Cadel Evans (Aus) Silence - Lotto 0.58
3 Bernhard Kohl (Aut) Gerolsteiner 1.13
4 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 2.10
5 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Team Garmin-Chipotle p/b H30 3.05


This year (so far):
14 Carlos Sastre Candil (Spa) Cervelo Test Team 0:15:26
29 Cadel Evans (Aus) Silence - Lotto 0:38:20
(Kohl is out for CERA)
43 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 0:52:47
8 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Garmin - Slipstream 0:10:08


That was Armstrong's point, and it has proven to be much more prophetic than anyone imagined at the time he made it. How you make that point without offending these guys, I don't know, but he obviously didn't do it. It was also obvious that he didn't mean to be offensive, but later realized it came off sounding like it was, so he apologized. So what? His original point stands. Last year's Tour was a bit of a joke (at the risk of offending Sastre again, considerably more than a bit, if you ask me).

Only one variable? You can't prove a theory on so little evidence.

2007 ( No Menchov)

2 Cadel Evans (Aus) Predictor - Lotto 0.23
4 Carlos Sastre Candil (Spa) Team CSC 7.08

2006
4 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 3.13
5 Cadel Evans (Aus) Davitamon-Lotto 5.08
6 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 7.06

So selective statistics can make a joke out of anything. Plenty of jokes can be made at this Tour's expense.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Oh, look. Another post by the forum's chief sniffer complaining about everyone else. Looks like a new addition to the Amsterb!tch thread.

Oh look, head hateboy stalking and flaming again. Keep digging that hole, big boy.

I don't complain about "everyone else", as you well know. Only about you and your obsessive kind, who don't know how to conduct themselves on a forum - and who constantly stalk, flame, abuse, insult, and in general act like the utter pr!cks you apparently are.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

No offense, but prior to the beginning of the Tour, Lance said himself that shape-wise he was between his best and worst Tour, meaning he was in fairly good shape.

His problem is that he does not realise he's been officialy run over by a new generation, much like LeMond in the Indurain era.

3rd place, and well ahead of everyone in the top 5 from last year's tour, is not exactly run over.

 

[TRDean]

3rd place, and well ahead of everyone in the top 5 from last year's tour, is not exactly run over.

Get over last year man!!! You are like a stalker who was jilted by his girl...let it go!!!

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Indeed, the point stands, but you should know by now that there's no sense in arguing with hateboys who are unable to view anything whatsoever to do with LA with any objectivity, due to their overpowering hate obsession.

Indeed, the hate of the h8boyz is more effective at obscuring objectivity than is even the rosiness of the fanboyz shades.