Will Contador help Armstrong on Ventoux?

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Jul 23, 2009
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Fan Boy said:
Whats wrong with rooting for someone and them losing? There is no shame in that. The real sad part is the hatred you would have had in your heart if Armstrong did win. People that don't like Lance Armstrong seriously talk more about him than people that do like him. All it does is make Lance a bigger focus. Kind of self defeating if you ask me.

Lance is no different than Michael Jordan as far as selfishness and competitive nature(sans doping allegations), and Jordan has never received any of the hate Lance has. This whole site is amusing.
Ok, apt comparison in that both men rose to the top of their game, retired and dabbled in other sports, and came back. But did you ever know Jordan to seek out as many fights as Lance, to try to destroy and humiliate those who dare have differing opinions? Does Jordan spend his time slagging others on Twitter, did he broadcast the home e-mail address of a man who dared send him an insulting message? Does Jordan use the media and the courts to crush anyone who crosses him? Lance doesn't attract hate just because he is brilliant, he attracts hate just by being Lance.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
Dude, seriously, comas are free.

Honestly, I wouldn't care all that much. Again, things that affect my wife and children are of real concern to me. This cycling thing is all just a bit of fun. Unlike the "fanboy," I have no personal stake in the exploits of Mr Armstrong or any other cyclist
You paint a nice rosy image of you for your conscious self. Your posts indicate otherwise, and deep down your subconscious knows it's true. A little honest self-assessment might be in order. Just a suggestion...
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Ninety5rpm said:
You paint a nice rosy image of you for your conscious self. Your posts indicate otherwise, and deep down your subconscious knows it's true. A little honest self-assessment might be in order. Just a suggestion...
Come on man...everyone is just having some fun...relax.
 
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Anonymous

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Ninety5rpm said:
You paint a nice rosy image of you for your conscious self. Your posts indicate otherwise, and deep down your subconscious knows it's true. A little honest self-assessment might be in order. Just a suggestion...
The problem here is that you are projecting and can therefore not imagine someone feeling differently than do you. A little honest self-assessment might be in order. Just a suggestion...

My posts are filled with bait for the most part. And there are plenty of fish.
 
Apr 10, 2009
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Contador won't and has no need to help Armstrong. His sole job is to win the yellow jersey period. He will mark A. Schleck as his only opponent, as well he should. Where this "argument" will be decided is how A.Schleck responds to this. If he tries to help F. Schleck reach the podium this could work to Armstrong, Contador, Kloden and Astanas benefit. (F. Schleck has not shown that he can drop Armstrong and Kloden on his own. Before you argue about the Columbiere, Armstrong couldn't go with Schleck as he had Wiggins with him. I don't know if he had the fitness or not to come back to F. Schleck, but tactically he couldn't. On Arcalis, he rode over F.Schleck to get to the head group again with F. Schleck riding back up to him. Kloden was distanced by the attack of Contador.) If it stays grouped it works to Astanas benefit period. Armstrong only has to mark F. Schleck and Wiggins to stay on the podium. Armstrong will race for his own benefit (whether or not he has during this whole race is a moot point on Ventoux). I honestly see Kloden helping Armstrong, not because of Armstrong but because of Kloden's attitude which seems to be more of a team attitude, and by default simply because he does not want F. Schleck to ride away from him (Kloden). Armstrong wants this stage more than victory of the Tour itself (partly because he can fall back on the excuse of being a good teammate, whether or not you agree again is moot) and he will ride for it. The funny thing is I can actually see Contador pipping Armstrong at the line if they are together just to make a point regarding his feelings of being slighted at this Tour by the Astana crew.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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pedaling squares said:
Ok, apt comparison in that both men rose to the top of their game, retired and dabbled in other sports, and came back. But did you ever know Jordan to seek out as many fights as Lance, to try to destroy and humiliate those who dare have differing opinions? Does Jordan spend his time slagging others on Twitter, did he broadcast the home e-mail address of a man who dared send him an insulting message? Does Jordan use the media and the courts to crush anyone who crosses him? Lance doesn't attract hate just because he is brilliant, he attracts hate just by being Lance.
Only from those too feeble-minded to accept and appreciate who he is, all his faults included.

Probably mostly by people in denial about their own faults.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
The problem here is that you are projecting and can therefore not imagine someone feeling differently than do you. A little honest self-assessment might be in order. Just a suggestion...
I imagine everyone feels differently from me. What are you talking about?
 
Jul 24, 2009
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rhubroma said:
Jordan is not a little Napoleon who chases down weaker riders who went to the same doctor as he did to dope and then spills the beans. He's a mafia boss. And in my way of thinking, mafia bosses stink. Or uses the sick to cover-up his doped career and to promote his future political ambitions. That's perverse. There has never been an athlete, who, at the human level, has been so loathsome as this man. But that's not my fault.

Your comparison is weak. Armstrong, for character reasons, has brought all this animosity (and rightfully so) upon himself. Why else would it exist, if not true?
I don't disagree with negative opinions about him. I do not particularly share those but I understand where they come from. I just know that Jordan was an insuffreable jerk as well. He once punched his teammate in the face at practice because he wasn't doing something right. I totally disagree with the cancer thing. What he is doing with that is actually helping people with cancer. Maybe it's a fraud because he never would have been this famous in the first place if it wasn't for dope, but he is not making any personal money from the foundation and he is raising money for the cause. Most celebrities are selfish and he is no different.

His 7 tour wins made the sport much more popular although it was hard to stomach for "true racing fans" The fact is almost all of them are dopers including Eddy Mercx, Pantani, Indurain, Contadoper ect. Maybe Hinaut and LeMond didn't. who knows.

Even the french are cheering him on now that he is losing. What a sight to see. I like Lance because of his competitive drive and am sorry that he probably does dope, as that is the unfortunate truth of cycling. He is a very intelligent guy....too intelligent like a politician. Some of his tour wins were nothing short of exciting. Some were too dominant. Whatever the case, it brings people to this forum and is good for cycling as far as bringing more attention to it and bringing in new fans, whether good or bad. Most purists don't like that. Oh well.
 
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Ninety5rpm said:
I imagine everyone feels differently from me. What are you talking about?
Oh, you really do need some introspection don't you?
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Fan Boy said:
I don't disagree with negative opinions about him. I do not particularly share those but I understand where they come from. I just know that Jordan was an insuffreable jerk as well. He once punched his teammate in the face at practice because he wasn't doing something right. I totally disagree with the cancer thing. What he is doing with that is actually helping people with cancer. Maybe it's a fraud because he never would have been this famous in the first place if it wasn't for dope, but he is not making any personal money from the foundation and he is raising money for the cause. Most celebrities are selfish and he is no different.

His 7 tour wins made the sport much more popular although it was hard to stomach for "true racing fans" The fact is almost all of them are dopers including Eddy Mercx, Pantani, Indurain, Contadoper ect. Maybe Hinaut and LeMond didn't. who knows.

Even the french are cheering him on now that he is losing. What a sight to see. I like Lance because of his competitive drive and am sorry that he probably does dope, as that is the unfortunate truth of cycling. He is a very intelligent guy....too intelligent like a politician. Some of his tour wins were nothing short of exciting. Some were too dominant. Whatever the case, it brings people to this forum and is good for cycling as far as bringing more attention to it and bringing in new fans, whether good or bad. Most purists don't like that. Oh well.
Intelligent like a politician? That is an oxymoron if I have ever heard one.
 
Jun 18, 2009
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mambo#5 said:
+1 on all that have said, AC will follow the Schlecks' wheels until he launches an attack to win the stage. Not sure if Klodi or Lance have it in them to keep the Schleck bros from taking 2nd and 3rd. It should be interesting though.
I am not so sure about this.....

Ninety5rpm said:
Well, of course. So what? The dude is in 3rd place and well ahead of the top 5 from last year.

The only nipples getting hard are yours at the joy of seeing a champion that you happen to despise possibly get as "low" as 3rd instead of 1st. Do you have any clue about how pathetic that is?
... and almost certain this will not happen.

Frank needs about 40s over Lance, so Frank and Andy will be quite active on Ventoux I would think. I think Contador will be the only person who can hang with the Schlecks. Now, there was a point on Stage 17 near the top of the col de la Columbiere that AC looked to be in a bit of trouble, just after he attacked and lost Kloden. So, I think the stage will be really interesting.... but I don't think Lance will finish on the podium.
 
Ninety5rpm said:
Something about cycling... there always seems to be hatred to all champions... Merckx, Lemond, Indurain... all had their share. You can see it happening for Alberto too.

That doesn't mean it's not all irrational emotion and each of has can do better by stepping up and out of the manure.
95RPMS it's not about Lance the athlete, so much is it's about Lance the man. He's corrupt and has an over inflated ego with future public (perhaps political) ambitions. Now I don't mind that he doped or that he has public ambitions, but put the two together ,and his coopting the cancer comunity as a device toward that end, and his arrogant CEO approach to management, and the way he treated Simeoni...now I don't like him and hope he never has any future in politics. For it would be like electing John Gotti as mayor of New York.

And, again, it is he, with his public, limelight posturing and mafia boss like stance with respect to his own doping habits when others dare to expose it, that makes him a thoroughly dispicable character.

To me it's an irrational emotion which leads to those that kiss his a$$ more or less automatically. As opposed to a more rational and objective analysis of his true persona.
 
Jul 22, 2009
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Ninety5rpm said:
Well, of course. So what? The dude is in 3rd place and well ahead of the top 5 from last year.
You keep missing the point: That never happened while he was on his 7-TdF crusade. Do you see the difference?

The only nipples getting hard are yours at the joy of seeing a champion that you happen to despise possibly get as "low" as 3rd instead of 1st. Do you have any clue about how pathetic that is?
When did I say I despised Lance?

He only won by 6 minutes once, or maybe twice, by the way. Most of the other 4 or 5 wins were much closer.
That's inconsequential. The main point stands: All other riders were behind him.
 
Fan Boy said:
I don't disagree with negative opinions about him. I do not particularly share those but I understand where they come from. I just know that Jordan was an insuffreable jerk as well. He once punched his teammate in the face at practice because he wasn't doing something right. I totally disagree with the cancer thing. What he is doing with that is actually helping people with cancer. Maybe it's a fraud because he never would have been this famous in the first place if it wasn't for dope, but he is not making any personal money from the foundation and he is raising money for the cause. Most celebrities are selfish and he is no different.

His 7 tour wins made the sport much more popular although it was hard to stomach for "true racing fans" The fact is almost all of them are dopers including Eddy Mercx, Pantani, Indurain, Contadoper ect. Maybe Hinaut and LeMond didn't. who knows.

Even the french are cheering him on now that he is losing. What a sight to see. I like Lance because of his competitive drive and am sorry that he probably does dope, as that is the unfortunate truth of cycling. He is a very intelligent guy....too intelligent like a politician. Some of his tour wins were nothing short of exciting. Some were too dominant. Whatever the case, it brings people to this forum and is good for cycling as far as bringing more attention to it and bringing in new fans, whether good or bad. Most purists don't like that. Oh well.
Again it's not about Lance the athlete, but Lance the man. I don't follow Jordan so can't comment. And you are right, we completely disagree as to how much the cancer community is being helped by Lance and how much Lance is being helped by the cancer community. To me he is a cynic and a mafia boss. Nothing more.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Señor_Contador said:
You keep missing the point: That never happened while he was on his 7-TdF crusade. Do you see the difference?
Yeah, he's older and has not raced the Tour in 4 years. What did you expect?

I just don't get your point.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
Oh, you really do need some introspection don't you?
We are all different, my friend, each several orders of magnitude more unique than a snowflake.

We don't even know how others perceive the same colors as we do, much less how others feel about this or that.

That said, anyone who spends as much time on a forum like this as you and I do could probably benefit from some introspection...
 
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Ninety5rpm said:
We are all different, my friend, each several orders of magnitude more unique than a snowflake.

We don't even know how others perceive the same colors as we do, much less how others feel about this or that.

That said, anyone who spends as much time on a forum like this as you and I do could probably benefit from some introspection...
Shhhh...the voices might hear you...:)

Plus, I have been clean and sober for 18 years, I am real clear on why I am an champion, it just doesn't seem to change it all that much...
 
Jul 23, 2009
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Ninety5rpm said:
Only from those too feeble-minded to accept and appreciate who he is, all his faults included.

Probably mostly by people in denial about their own faults.
Feeble-minded and faulty? Yeah, that's me to some extent. I do appreciate LA the athlete: his physical and mental domination of possibly the world's toughest sporting event is or was nothing short of miraculous. I don't appreciate LA the person, using his fame and fortune as a weapon against anyone, competitor or critic, who also dares to be brilliant, who dares question or challenge him, or who even dares to attend court to testify as compelled by law.

I was actually cheering for LA on stage 1, being so impressed by his comeback. But he's dragged himself into the gutter yet again with his lack of sportsmanship and I just can't bring myself to cheer him onto the podium. Too bad, because the guy really is a phenomenal cyclist.
 
May 10, 2009
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Ninety5rpm said:
That was Armstrong's point, and it has proven to be much more prophetic than anyone imagined at the time he made it. How you make that point without offending these guys, I don't know, but he obviously didn't do it. It was also obvious that he didn't mean to be offensive, but later realized it came off sounding like it was, so he apologized. So what? His original point stands. Last year's Tour was a bit of a joke (at the risk of offending Sastre again, considerably more than a bit, if you ask me).
This is the exact quote that Armostrong said "The [2008] Tour was a bit of a joke. I've got nothing against [champion Carlos] Sastre or Christian Vande Velde. Christian's a nice guy, but finishing fifth in the Tour de France? Come on!"

And don't you think called the tour "a joke" and exclamating "come on" is not being disrespectful ??? He is not only diminishing the event but also the athletes and this is very disrespectful in my book.
 
Jul 24, 2009
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It was a joke last year since the strongest team in the world was excluded, and the Tour organizers are a joke, period.
 
Jul 21, 2009
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Ninety5rpm said:
So, my question is supposedly really stupid, yet Contador said he would do exactly what I'm asking. :rolleyes:

I saw Contador on Armstrong's wheel quite a bit, especially for a few stages after that one stage where the wind blew the peloton apart, and AC got on the wrong end. He spent some time on Lance's wheel after that. And even in the mountains the last few days during tempo riding AC was on LA's wheel a lot.
Now now, AC being in LA's wheel during tempo riding is not the same as LA setting the tempo for AC.

We both know the difference, so don't try to sneak that in.

In case you haven't noticed, what Alberto says to the press and what Alberto does on the road are two different things. And in Mount Ventoux we will see another example of that. 1 more day to go.

Spanish press are saying that the environment around Contador in Astana is unbearable, that Alberto is under tremendous phsycological pressure there. Intead of blowing a gasket, he has shown tremendous composure in the media, unlike other twitter toting teammates. He has done his talking on the road and he will continue to do so.
 

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