women are right!

[Angliru]

Not the only point, but it plays a role.

Not once either. Wednesday night rides of some 80km, he participated in them for fun and was on par (sometimes stronger in the end, sometimes he lost out). Not talking about a sprint, but about general speed during the ride in the Posbank area (slightly hilly terrain northeast of Arnhem).

If you're interested, other people in the ride included -- - ------, a quite decent marathon speedskater. Anyway, for the sake of privacy this is all I will tell in public, I don't like talking about other people online so I will edit this message tomorrow (don't quote it please).

You describe it as a ride not a race. What was her intention in doing the ride?
In her defense while your friend was trying to show what he could do vs professional athletes, is it possible they had goals other than competing with those on the ride? It could have been looked at as a casual spin many in the group, a fun ride, and your friend is potentially busting a lung trying to prove his worth. Maybe he should have announced at the beginning of this "ride" that he was serious and planning on bringing the pain. It wouldn't be the first time that someone did a ride and later announced to their friends that they punished the pro's or riders that were high profile without these riders knowing that he was taking it a lot more serious than they were.

 

[Angliru]

Thank you very much for telling me what happened. Enjoying your armchair?

...and your response implies that you were there when you've stated you're getting this info about this ride second hand.

 

[jens_attacks]

If they're flying up mountains so fast why are they getting dropped by Ryder Hesjedal in the Giro?

?????what one has to do with another????

i said the level in south america races is extremely high. i never said that some of those riders can keep the same level and fitness in europe races.
same as some north american riders demolish everything in american races but fade away in europe. or the french guys only in ASO races, portuguese in theirs and so on. hometurf advantage is indisputable
my point is still valid, there is very high level of racing in south american and the managers and cycling involved persons from europe who went there confirmed it.

by the way,farnese at vuelta tachira in january. wait to see them slaughtered

 

[The Hitch]

...and your response implies that you were there when you've stated you're getting this info about this ride second hand.

I had a friend who was a continental level rider and another friend of mine who was a girl and had never seen a bike before had a race against him and won.

Honest.

 

[El Pistolero]

?????what one has to do with another????

i said the level in south america races is extremely high. i never said that some of those riders can keep the same level and fitness in europe races.
same as some north american riders demolish everything in american races but fade away in europe. or the french guys only in ASO races, portuguese in theirs and so on. hometurf advantage is indisputable
my point is still valid, there is very high level of racing in south american and the managers and cycling involved persons from europe who went there confirmed it.

by the way,farnese at vuelta tachira in january. wait to see them slaughtered

American races aren't high level, the ones in the USA at least. The French guys haven't won an ASO race in years(LBL, FW, Roubaix, Paris-Nice, Criterium du Dauphiné, Paris-Tours and the Tour de France). Although yes, they are often much better in the Tour than the rest of the season, but that's just one race and not even for the overall. Portuguese are dominating Portuguese cycling because most of the field is Portuguese... Ergo not of a very high level.

Belgians haven't won many LBLs or FW, and that's because those races are of the highest level and have an international field. Home-turf advantage is brought to a minimum then.

The level in South-America doesn't come close to the level in Europe, hence according to Ryo's logic he should hate it.

By the way, Farnese Vini is a small team.

Tour de San Luis is probably the race with the best international field last few years in South-America...

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Hillarious

for your information. sevilla is doped to the moon in colombia. I wouldn't take his results there very seriously. but when he went outside of colombia like in utah, he was better than guys like danielson. so he isn't very bad either and no doubt in the best shape of his life.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

American races aren't high level, the ones in the USA at least. The French guys haven't won an ASO race in years(LBL, FW, Roubaix, Paris-Nice, Criterium du Dauphiné, Paris-Tours and the Tour de France). Although yes, they are often much better in the Tour than the rest of the season, but that's just one race and not even for the overall. Portuguese are dominating Portuguese cycling because most of the field is Portuguese... Ergo not of a very high level.

Belgians haven't won many LBLs or FW, and that's because those races are of the highest level and have an international field. Home-turf advantage is brought to a minimum then.

The level in South-America doesn't come close to the level in Europe, hence according to Ryo's logic he should hate it.

By the way, Farnese Vini is a small team.

Tour de San Luis is probably the race with the best international field last few years in South-America...

I like climbing and the level of climbing in colombia is higher than europa, this comes from guys like quintana and soler that I take a whole lot more serious than you pisti. you don't know much about anything babasically and especially not colombian cycling. even you have to admitt that

a not exceptional climber in colombia like atapuma that is outclimbing pozzovivo and other pure climbers says enough to me. I remember alex cano beating guys like evans on andorra arcalis last year in volta catalunya, with zero racing days in his legs. I remember all the great u23 riders destroyign climbs in avenir and giro bio. those are facts. a 3rd rate u23 rider in colombia like chamorro that lost avenir by only 1 seconds. that is proof enough for me. the level in colombia for climbing overall, is way higher than europe

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

American races aren't high level, the ones in the USA at least. The French guys haven't won an ASO race in years(LBL, FW, Roubaix, Paris-Nice, Criterium du Dauphiné, Paris-Tours and the Tour de France). Although yes, they are often much better in the Tour than the rest of the season, but that's just one race and not even for the overall. Portuguese are dominating Portuguese cycling because most of the field is Portuguese... Ergo not of a very high level.

Belgians haven't won many LBLs or FW, and that's because those races are of the highest level and have an international field. Home-turf advantage is brought to a minimum then.

The level in South-America doesn't come close to the level in Europe, hence according to Ryo's logic he should hate it.

By the way, Farnese Vini is a small team.

Tour de San Luis is probably the race with the best international field last few years in South-America...

and it was won almost every year by a latin american

 

[Pazuzu]

I'd love to see a version of the Tour de France for female riders. Cycling's marquee event should also exist for woman. The race could be held a couple of weeks before or after the Men's TdF.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I'd love to see a version of the Tour de France for female riders. Cycling's marquee event should also exist for woman. The race could be held a couple of weeks before or after the Men's TdF.

the reason that isn't happening is because aso aren't a charity organisation and they organised before and it only cost them a ton of money.

 

[El Pistolero]

Ryo, you called Gesink a pathetic excuse of a rider and that he's to blame for every one of his injuries. So Soler is, according to your logic, also a "pathetic excuse" of a rider. Not my words mind you.

And San Luis has been won by Nibali and Leipheimer past few years. Not by your precious Latin-American riders. Besides, for them it was just a warm-up, a glorified training ride. Do you want the results of this year's Tour de San Luis? Chicchi, Contador, Leipheimer, Boonen, Viviani. Not a single Latin-American rider won!

The best climbers in Europe are much better than those racing in South-American races. I remember Evans winning the Tour and Alex Cano winning nothing.

You're really clutching at straws here if you need to use examples of a Colombian rider out-climbing a European climber in a small race once in his whole career.

Also for your U23 results. Dutch riders are owning in the U23. Hardly an indication that they'll make it in the pro ranks. You've insulted Rabobank a lot for this already, so it's funny to see you doing this.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

There used to be two, in fact - Le Grand Boucle Feminine and Route de France. Their competition with one another hurt the event, and the Giro won out overall. There used to be a nine-day Tour de l'Aude too, but that's gone the way of the dodo too.

If the two organisers of the two women's Tours could have pooled resources and worked things out that way, then they might have stood a chance.

The countries where women's cycling has the most support are Italy and the Netherlands, and as a result most of the biggest races are there. Belgium has most of the biggest one-day races (de Ronde and La Flèche). The Italians and the Dutch seem happy to set up a number of events as, with good success for the women, interest is higher and more money is available.

Maybe if a French woman (I have high hopes for Pauline Ferrand-Prévot in this respect) can generate some stage racing results in those few hilly or mountainous stage races there are - ones like Emakumeen Bira, Giro del Trentino, Gracia-Orlova and of course the Giro Donne - then some attention will be drawn towards trying to develop a women's Tour, whether it be through taking what little remains of the Route de France and rebuilding it, or through a new start-up. Probably the best time for it would be during the first week or so of the Vuelta, so that they can do similar to how the Giro Donne works - they do the stages comparatively early so that the coverage can be edited together so that the highlights of the day's stage can be broadcast directly after the Tour de France stage to maximise the crossover audience. It's seemingly worked, as the amount of coverage has increased from 10 to 45 minutes in the last three years.

But at the present time, I can't see anybody being willing to take the risk. And that's the problem with women's cycling at the moment. It's in a position where it needs risks to be taken in order to improve, as it does not have organic growth at present, and the present situation does not allow it the opportunities to create that either. It needs something to catalyse growth, and then it can sink or swim and we can see whether organic growth can be created. Will it ever be as big or as popular as the men's races? The answer, almost certainly, is no. But I don't see that a situation where women's races get decent enough audiences that the calendar can show enough variety that women can afford to specialise in particular styles of racing and make a living doing so, is such an unfeasible ambition.

 

[lukinox]

Well done to you, Libertine Seguros, sir! It's always comforting to see that someone in this world has a brain and uses it. Needless to say I agree with the points you made earlier. As for most of the posts I read on this thread I only have one thing to say: are you really comparing sport performances of men against women? That would be like comparing men nipples against women's. Of course women's nipples are bigger!
Men cycling (or any sport) is more popular than women cycling because of one main reason, men are the main followers of sports and we like to watch other men competing probably because we can relate and dream about it, so unless more women are gonna start watching women cycling, the sport is always gonna be less popular than their male counterpart. Having said that I enjoy watching the girls racing (something that I can't say about football for example) and I would welcome the day when there's gonna be more women races broadcast on telly.

 

[El Pistolero]

Well done to you, Libertine Seguros, sir! It's always comforting to see that someone in this world has a brain and uses it. Needless to say I agree with the points you made earlier. As for most of the posts I read on this thread I only have one thing to say: are you really comparing sport performances of men against women? That would be like comparing men nipples against women's. Of course women's nipples are bigger!
Men cycling (or any sport) is more popular than women cycling because of one main reason, men are the main followers of sports and we like to watch other men competing probably because we can relate and dream about it, so unless more women are gonna start watching women cycling, the sport is always gonna be less popular than their male counterpart. Having said that I enjoy watching the girls racing (something that I can't say for football for example) and I would welcome the day when there's gonna be more women races broadcast on telly.

That's probably true, but I remember reading an article about how many women and men watched the Tour in Belgium, but I can't remember who watched the most.

I'm surprised no one mentioned Alfonsina Strada yet.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

my girlfriend btw is a female cyclists and she actually hates woman cycling and woman sports in general. if she ever watches sport, which is usually only cycling. she watches only the men. she fits me like a glove

 

[theyoungest]

And this contributes to the discussion... what? "My girlfriend agrees with me". Good for you, son.

 

[The Hitch]

my girlfriend btw is a female cyclists and she actually hates woman cycling and woman sports in general. if she ever watches sport, which is usually only cycling. she watches only the men. she fits me like a glove

Does your girlfriend know you see women as pathetic?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Does your girlfriend know you see women as pathetic?

Ryo actually has more than one kindred spirit:

People know I don’t like her [Vania Rossi] racing, you can imagine what I think about her taking anything. Cycling isn’t for women, it hurts too much.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

And this contributes to the discussion... what? "My girlfriend agrees with me". Good for you, son.

no, it contributes to the discussion that woman often(in my experience) prefer male sport over female sports(see also football). so the whole sexist argument flies out of the window.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Does your girlfriend know you see women as pathetic?

pathetic in sports yes. not pathetic in everything else. big difference

 

[Zam_Olyas]

I am actually surprised that RyoSan even have a gf.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

no, it contributes to the discussion that woman often(in my experience) prefer male sport over female sports(see also football). so the whole sexist argument flies out of the window.

Unless you'd want to argue that both men and women are sexist against women, as I'm sure some would if this was established scientifically.

I agree, though, there's not much difference between male and female sports fans, in my experience. Most want the same: to see the world's best athletes in a given sport and specialism compete with each other. There are other kinds of sports fans to be sure, but for most sports (there are sports where the gender gap doesn't matter much or at all, visually) most want to see the best of the best.

That doesn't mean that there is no room for pro women's sports in addition to pro men's sports, but for MOST sports (again, there are exceptions) the men's sport has to be sufficiently big first.

 

[The Hitch]

. Most want the same: to see the world's best athletes in a given sport and specialism compete with each other. There are other kinds of sports fans to be sure, but for most sports (there are sports where the gender gap doesn't matter much or at all, visually) most want to see the best of the best.
.

If this were true how comes 90% of sports fans only watch football and most of them only watch their local league.

it seems to me that people only watch what they think is important. In india thats their cricket league in the us nfl in europe and south america the respective football leagues etc.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

If this were true how comes 90% of sports fans only watch football and most of them only watch their local league.

it seems to me that people only watch what they think is important. In india thats their cricket league in the us nfl in europe and south america the respective football leagues etc.

That's not what I meant, silly. We were discussing the relative popularity of men's sports versus women's sports in a certain field, exceptions where the gender gap doesn't matter (much) from an "entertainment" point of view notwithstanding. Fine, the best individuals on a national level, in a national league, in a pro sport that happens to have a certain popularity in a certain country / culture. LOL, how argumentative can you get? Way to sidetrack the issue.

Women's pro sports are relatively impopular across the globe. At some point it stops being a cultural or country-specific "problem".

A key point that feminists ignore, is that men are not just physically and tactically superior, but also naturally much more likely to be daredevils. That matters so much in sports like road cycling (sprints, descents, etc.)

No, it's not fair to women. But it's so much more unfair to the handicapped and probably even more so for the intersexed. It's also not fair to the vast majority of normal, comparatively biologically "disadvantaged" men. That's the beauty of it all... it isn't fair.

 

[theyoungest]

It shouldn't be surprising that some fans of a sport dominated by white, Caucasian men hold views such as the one above. Just by displaying an interest in women's racing you're considered a "feminist" in the eyes of these people.