- Jun 22, 2009
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“You just don’t in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pre-text.”
John Kerry
John Kerry
- Status
- Jul 4, 2009
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....here is a look at the possible financial future that faces The Ukraine....the key bit is the following ( which kinda plays on the line quoted earlier from the Escobar article )...
"I think that in this geopolitical game the EU is not following its own interests, and under pressure from the U.S. is sacrificing their countries and peoples just to drag Ukraine to its side. Ukraine is a very important link in the geopolitical strategy of the U.S. attack on Russia, and in the future, China.”
....the full article is below...
"The EU reported its willingness to provide significant financial assistance to Ukraine. This is allegedly done to cover the need of $35 billion for this and subsequent years. Experts believe that the EU will strongly promote their loan because geopolitical ambitions are at stake. But what would it mean for Kiev? Pravda.Ru tried to figure this out.
The economic situation in Ukraine is close to a collapse. The new authorities have announced that the treasury was empty, while the upcoming expenses will be significant. By July, Ukraine will have to pay $410 billion dollars of debt, and about $3 billion to Russia (including Gazprom). By the end of 2015, Ukraine must pay foreign creditors $17 billion, not including interest. The total financial needs of Ukraine for the current year are estimated by Russian economists at $25 billion, Bloomberg reported.
Given that “the treasury is empty,” and Russia has frozen the remaining $12 billion in financial aid, Ukraine must urgently find creditors. Private creditors are not promising considering 8 percent budget deficit (the EU requirements for their countries is 3 percent), the recession in the economy for the past five months, and capital flight (only direct withdrawals from accounts over two months of the Maidan protests have reached $3.1 billion dollars).
“The collapse may occur as early as March if capital flight continues at the same rate,” warned the IIF. Therefore Ukraine will be only provided a loan because of a political motivation, and will be much smaller than Ukraine requested and under strict conditions. “The big bailout plan Ukraine is currently seeking will not be implemented through international donors and non-inclusive weak government,” told Bloomberg senior economist of IHS Global Insight in London Lilit Gevorgyan.
Political conditions include the signing of the Association Agreement with the EU and legitimization of the government. Relevant agreements have been reached between the parties, and the agreement will likely be signed after the presidential elections in Ukraine on May25. The conditions include: reduction of the budget deficit that means devaluation of hryvnia, cuts in pensions, benefits and salaries to state employees, raising of the retirement age, the removal of subsidies to coal and other underperforming industries, the growth of natural gas prices, and other unpopular measures.
However, assistance to Ukraine will have a negative impact on the European Union where many economies are in distress. Assistance to the country that is not a member of the European Union may be seen by the member countries as waste and politicking. This will lead to strengthening of the position of the nationalists in the upcoming elections to the European Parliament to be held on the same day with the Ukrainian election on May 25.
The Nationalist right block (Marine Le Pen) calling into question the existence of the EU is already gaining 25 -28 percent of vote according to a conservative estimate, and because of the Ukrainian events may significantly increase their representation in the European Parliament.
“Any major EU program will draw criticism of the nationalists in the EU and will allow these parties to gain points,” told Pravda.Ru Andrei Kortunov, General Director of the Russian Council on Foreign Affairs. “The situation is catastrophic, in some countries unemployment is at 50 percent among young people. They will think: “Why are we helping Ukraine that has put itself into this situation? Why should we fund such a large program although we understand that in the future Ukraine will not join the EU?” I do not rule out that this funding will have an impact on the election results.”
There are other considerations about the plan of “salvation” of Ukraine that strictly speaking does not exist. So far there is nothing but emotions from the euphoria of victory over Russia.
“I cannot imagine how this money can be quickly procured, the more so that the Ukrainian economy is unable to send it in the right direction. This is an oligarchic economy with no accountability, and the EU simply has no idea what will happen with the money,” told Pravda.ru Alexander Rahr. The expert believes that European politicians who are now handing out promises “will speak for the EU until June, and then there will be re-election, there will be another commission.”
“These European commissioners talk in terms of geopolitics: not to lose Ukraine for the second time, to help strengthen the government, take the situation completely under control. But national leaders are much more cautious about the assistance to Ukraine. If you ask Ms. Merkel or Mr. Hollande, they will say that they will give the money, but not from the EU, rather, from the IMF and the Treasury, where there is American, Japanese, Chinese, Russian, and European money, international money.” This issue is likely to be solved by a collegial council of the IMF, Rahr believes.
“I think that if the EU decided to help, they will help, another question is how the money will be used by Ukraine,” told Pravda.Ru Viktor Uspaskich, Lithuanian businessman and politician, leader of the Labor Party, a member of the European Parliament from the Republic of Lithuania. “Half of the money will probably be misused, so the 25 billion euros will not make much difference. In such a large country this money will be quickly used up. Even in Lithuania that is allocated 2 billion dollars a year, and that is nearly 15 times smaller than Ukraine, the money is spent quickly, without any significant impact. This assistance will not save Ukraine, it needs about $200 billion, or good management, control structure to effectively use this money. ”
“Indeed, the situation in the EU is very complicated, and the Union has not yet emerged from the crisis, although there are signs of recovery. Debt crisis continues in Spain, Italy, Greece, but it threatens France with its two trillion debt,” told Pravda.Ru professor, political scientist Petko Ganchev, chairman of the geopolitical center of Eurasia – Sofia. “The situation is not too optimistic in many countries of the former Eastern Europe, including Bulgaria. Unemployment is too high and poverty is terrible.
I think that in this geopolitical game the EU is not following its own interests, and under pressure from the U.S. is sacrificing their countries and peoples just to drag Ukraine to its side. Ukraine is a very important link in the geopolitical strategy of the U.S. attack on Russia, and in the future, China.” Petko Ganchev believes that “promises will be replicated, “but gradually requirements will be put forward to clarify the situation and isolate right-wing nationalists from power.
“The EU has a wealth of experience in providing financial assistance to its members in such a way that this assistance is not seen by these countries,” told Pravda.Ru Serbian economist Branko Pavlovic. “In the case of Greece, it was only formally aid to Greece, but in reality funds were allocated to banks owned by legal entities from Germany and France. For example, Romania was allocated 8 billion euros, but Romania did not manage to fulfill the conditions under which it could spend the money, so in reality it only managed to use one billion euros.
Third, when the recipient country manages to get money from the EU, 85 percent of the funds received should be later returned to legal entities of the countries involved in their provision. In fact, funding by the EU is at best a cover for the financing of the economies of the first tier and never leads to the development of the economy of the countries receiving the assistance. Moreover, the economy weakens and debts only increase.”
Reprinted from Pravda.ru.
....and yeah its from Pravda but it was pulled from a pretty pur laine American libertarian site....I mean it could have been worse and pulled from the NYT, the paper who helped bring forth the victory in Iraq....
Cheers
"I think that in this geopolitical game the EU is not following its own interests, and under pressure from the U.S. is sacrificing their countries and peoples just to drag Ukraine to its side. Ukraine is a very important link in the geopolitical strategy of the U.S. attack on Russia, and in the future, China.”
....the full article is below...
"The EU reported its willingness to provide significant financial assistance to Ukraine. This is allegedly done to cover the need of $35 billion for this and subsequent years. Experts believe that the EU will strongly promote their loan because geopolitical ambitions are at stake. But what would it mean for Kiev? Pravda.Ru tried to figure this out.
The economic situation in Ukraine is close to a collapse. The new authorities have announced that the treasury was empty, while the upcoming expenses will be significant. By July, Ukraine will have to pay $410 billion dollars of debt, and about $3 billion to Russia (including Gazprom). By the end of 2015, Ukraine must pay foreign creditors $17 billion, not including interest. The total financial needs of Ukraine for the current year are estimated by Russian economists at $25 billion, Bloomberg reported.
Given that “the treasury is empty,” and Russia has frozen the remaining $12 billion in financial aid, Ukraine must urgently find creditors. Private creditors are not promising considering 8 percent budget deficit (the EU requirements for their countries is 3 percent), the recession in the economy for the past five months, and capital flight (only direct withdrawals from accounts over two months of the Maidan protests have reached $3.1 billion dollars).
“The collapse may occur as early as March if capital flight continues at the same rate,” warned the IIF. Therefore Ukraine will be only provided a loan because of a political motivation, and will be much smaller than Ukraine requested and under strict conditions. “The big bailout plan Ukraine is currently seeking will not be implemented through international donors and non-inclusive weak government,” told Bloomberg senior economist of IHS Global Insight in London Lilit Gevorgyan.
Political conditions include the signing of the Association Agreement with the EU and legitimization of the government. Relevant agreements have been reached between the parties, and the agreement will likely be signed after the presidential elections in Ukraine on May25. The conditions include: reduction of the budget deficit that means devaluation of hryvnia, cuts in pensions, benefits and salaries to state employees, raising of the retirement age, the removal of subsidies to coal and other underperforming industries, the growth of natural gas prices, and other unpopular measures.
However, assistance to Ukraine will have a negative impact on the European Union where many economies are in distress. Assistance to the country that is not a member of the European Union may be seen by the member countries as waste and politicking. This will lead to strengthening of the position of the nationalists in the upcoming elections to the European Parliament to be held on the same day with the Ukrainian election on May 25.
The Nationalist right block (Marine Le Pen) calling into question the existence of the EU is already gaining 25 -28 percent of vote according to a conservative estimate, and because of the Ukrainian events may significantly increase their representation in the European Parliament.
“Any major EU program will draw criticism of the nationalists in the EU and will allow these parties to gain points,” told Pravda.Ru Andrei Kortunov, General Director of the Russian Council on Foreign Affairs. “The situation is catastrophic, in some countries unemployment is at 50 percent among young people. They will think: “Why are we helping Ukraine that has put itself into this situation? Why should we fund such a large program although we understand that in the future Ukraine will not join the EU?” I do not rule out that this funding will have an impact on the election results.”
There are other considerations about the plan of “salvation” of Ukraine that strictly speaking does not exist. So far there is nothing but emotions from the euphoria of victory over Russia.
“I cannot imagine how this money can be quickly procured, the more so that the Ukrainian economy is unable to send it in the right direction. This is an oligarchic economy with no accountability, and the EU simply has no idea what will happen with the money,” told Pravda.ru Alexander Rahr. The expert believes that European politicians who are now handing out promises “will speak for the EU until June, and then there will be re-election, there will be another commission.”
“These European commissioners talk in terms of geopolitics: not to lose Ukraine for the second time, to help strengthen the government, take the situation completely under control. But national leaders are much more cautious about the assistance to Ukraine. If you ask Ms. Merkel or Mr. Hollande, they will say that they will give the money, but not from the EU, rather, from the IMF and the Treasury, where there is American, Japanese, Chinese, Russian, and European money, international money.” This issue is likely to be solved by a collegial council of the IMF, Rahr believes.
“I think that if the EU decided to help, they will help, another question is how the money will be used by Ukraine,” told Pravda.Ru Viktor Uspaskich, Lithuanian businessman and politician, leader of the Labor Party, a member of the European Parliament from the Republic of Lithuania. “Half of the money will probably be misused, so the 25 billion euros will not make much difference. In such a large country this money will be quickly used up. Even in Lithuania that is allocated 2 billion dollars a year, and that is nearly 15 times smaller than Ukraine, the money is spent quickly, without any significant impact. This assistance will not save Ukraine, it needs about $200 billion, or good management, control structure to effectively use this money. ”
“Indeed, the situation in the EU is very complicated, and the Union has not yet emerged from the crisis, although there are signs of recovery. Debt crisis continues in Spain, Italy, Greece, but it threatens France with its two trillion debt,” told Pravda.Ru professor, political scientist Petko Ganchev, chairman of the geopolitical center of Eurasia – Sofia. “The situation is not too optimistic in many countries of the former Eastern Europe, including Bulgaria. Unemployment is too high and poverty is terrible.
I think that in this geopolitical game the EU is not following its own interests, and under pressure from the U.S. is sacrificing their countries and peoples just to drag Ukraine to its side. Ukraine is a very important link in the geopolitical strategy of the U.S. attack on Russia, and in the future, China.” Petko Ganchev believes that “promises will be replicated, “but gradually requirements will be put forward to clarify the situation and isolate right-wing nationalists from power.
“The EU has a wealth of experience in providing financial assistance to its members in such a way that this assistance is not seen by these countries,” told Pravda.Ru Serbian economist Branko Pavlovic. “In the case of Greece, it was only formally aid to Greece, but in reality funds were allocated to banks owned by legal entities from Germany and France. For example, Romania was allocated 8 billion euros, but Romania did not manage to fulfill the conditions under which it could spend the money, so in reality it only managed to use one billion euros.
Third, when the recipient country manages to get money from the EU, 85 percent of the funds received should be later returned to legal entities of the countries involved in their provision. In fact, funding by the EU is at best a cover for the financing of the economies of the first tier and never leads to the development of the economy of the countries receiving the assistance. Moreover, the economy weakens and debts only increase.”
Reprinted from Pravda.ru.
....and yeah its from Pravda but it was pulled from a pretty pur laine American libertarian site....I mean it could have been worse and pulled from the NYT, the paper who helped bring forth the victory in Iraq....
Cheers
- Jun 15, 2009
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Blutto those posts are toooo long...
Just overflew (hope thats the correct word) it.
The usual killer program for the country occupied, and with all the $hit that comes for us taxpayers. I told ya all. And the banksters who bought the Ukraine bonds are happy, high fiving each other for their next bonuses since their interests are saved by german taxpayers, again. I could just vomit.
More about it tomorrow...
Thank you Merkel and dumb idiotic voters of Germany.
Putin you are clever. Just got rid of a sinking ship and kept the treasure (Krim). I hoped until the last second you would try to save us from more harm (speak; taking back the whole Ukraine).
Chapeau.
And chapeau to prize boxer Klitschko and the other revolution mobsters who sold a whole country. Your work will be gilded by your new friends in the west.
Just overflew (hope thats the correct word) it.
The usual killer program for the country occupied, and with all the $hit that comes for us taxpayers. I told ya all. And the banksters who bought the Ukraine bonds are happy, high fiving each other for their next bonuses since their interests are saved by german taxpayers, again. I could just vomit.
More about it tomorrow...
Thank you Merkel and dumb idiotic voters of Germany.
Putin you are clever. Just got rid of a sinking ship and kept the treasure (Krim). I hoped until the last second you would try to save us from more harm (speak; taking back the whole Ukraine).
Chapeau.
And chapeau to prize boxer Klitschko and the other revolution mobsters who sold a whole country. Your work will be gilded by your new friends in the west.
- Jul 4, 2009
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FoxxyBrown1111 said:Blutto those posts are toooo long...
Just overflew (hope thats the correct word) it.
The usual killer program for the country occupied, and with all the $hit that comes for us taxpayers. I told ya all. And the banksters who bought the Ukraine bonds are happy, high fiving each other for their next bonuses since their interests are saved by german taxpayers, again. I could just vomit.
More about it tomorrow...
Thank you Merkel and dumb idiotic voters of Germany.
...sorry about the length but its a big complicated story that really should be told in its entirety ....yes?....
...the big question is how long will the EU put up with US ambitions....I mean they have proved to be rather incompetent for quite a while now and that incompetence is sucking up a lot of money....eventually the well will run dry....
Cheers
- Jun 15, 2009
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blutto said:
No, no they are not incompetent.... Good that I just kill my brain western civilization style, watching the Oscars
...OK, back... Those politic puppets know whom they serve, they know who the masters are. Incompetent are the brainwashed voters who bought the "revolution story", again.
The EU plan was made up long ago. The bigger it becomes, the more you can divide union workers of the West and replace them with cheaper ones. The bigger they become the more CCC bonds are saved by the "rich" taxpayers of the west. The banksters love it. Goldman Sachs has its guys at the EZB. The bigger they become the more sales markets open up for all the needless §hit that is produced by the big international companies. Monsanto will love to have another opportunity (once the free trade contract is signed; only a matter of time) to make their experiments on cheap accrued farms in the east.
And so on...
- Aug 10, 2010
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Dazed and Confused said:Perhaps we can get back to having some new good spy novels.
I think the last one I read was:
I just read "Night Soldiers" and "Spies of the Balkans" by Alan Furst. Read Spies of Warsaw awhile ago. They are right up there with Eric Ambler and John Le Carre.
- Jun 15, 2009
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FoxxyBrown1111 said:No, no they are not incompetent.... Good that I just kill my brain western civilization style, watching the Oscars
OK, back... Those politic puppets know whom they serve, they know who the masters are. Incompetent are the brainwashed voters who bought the "revolution story", again.
The EU plan was made up long ago. The bigger it becomes, the more you can divide union workers of the West and replace them with cheaper ones. The bigger they become the more CCC bonds are saved by the "rich" taxpayers of the west. The banksters love it. Goldman Sachs has its guys at the EZB. The bigger they become the more sales markets open up for all the needless §hit that is produced by the big international companies. Monsanto will love to have another opportunity (once the free trade contract is signed; only a matter of time) to make their experiments on cheap accrued farms in the east.
And so on...
Indeed it wasn´t a complete waste of time. The nominees in docus included a movie called "The Act of Killing". It´s about the terror acts that happened in the name of Friedmans "freedom (of markets) & democracy" theory in Indonesia (see also Kleins book). You know the Chile-style or the Mobuto one, or...
First the so called communists have to be erased completely, then the markets can blossom. Good for Russia
that a complete moron like Gorbatchev gave up his empire for free, succeeded by an alcoholic moron who basically plunged the little rest that was left of Russia. Otherwise a good old nuke-em-away a la Hiroshima would have been needed. Not that the USA wasn´t ready for this. There was a story in DER SPIEGEL in the 90s of US military plans. It was so absurd that two (!!) ICBMs (AFAIR, it was the newest version of the "Peacekeepers") were aimed at each end of one (!!) "important" bridge in Russia....And in the Cuba crises, the gods own country militaries pushed hard towards Kennedy for realeasing some thermo nuclear weapons. You guys think all this sick millitaries are gone?
Omg, I love the so-called USA bashing until the last hillbillie understands that USA doesn´t stand for Peacekeeping, God, freedom, democracy or whatever sweet words they use for self advertising. Hell, even Kenyans were better off. At least they weren´t lied at with a so called democracy when they had the one party system and Moi+Biwott ruled the KANU party, and thus the country.
OTOH, many USA citizens may still believe in their politic Punch-and-Judy-show. I guess the more clever posters here know that republicans and democrats serve the same master; that its basically a one party system with two tails...
Now I guess I made some more enemies, b/c I know the truth hurts. But forgive me, it had to be said at least once in a short hammer like post. Thx in advance. I don´t wanna offend the smart
FoxxyBrown1111 said:Indeed it wasn´t a complete waste of time. The nominees in docus included a movie called "The Act of Killing". It´s about the terror acts that happened in the name of Friedmans "freedom (of markets) & democracy" theory in Indonesia (see also Kleins book). You know the Chile-style or the Mobuto one, or...
First the so called communists have to be erased completely, then the markets can blossom. Good for Russia
And in the Cuba crises, the gods own country militaries pushed hard towards Kennedy for realeasing some thermo nuclear weapons. You guys think all this sick millitaries are gone?
Omg, I love the so-called USA bashing until the last hillbillie understands that USA doesn´t stand for Peacekeeping, God, freedom, democracy or whatever sweet words they use for self advertising. Hell, even Kenyans were better off. At least they weren´t lied at with a so called democracy when they had the one party system and Moi+Biwott ruled the KANU party, and thus the country.
OTOH, many USA citizens may still believe in their politic Punch-and-Judy-show. I guess the more clever posters here know that republicans and democrats serve the same master; that its basically a one party system with two tails...
Now I guess I made some more enemies, b/c I know the truth hurts. But forgive me, it had to be said at least once in a short hammer like post. Thx in advance. I don´t wanna offend the smart
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9gINFueof8
...and of course...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66SceyJ-i4M
- Apr 2, 2009
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blutto said:
And this, my dear Blutto, goes back to my initial thoughts on the matter:
I’m beginning to understand that the European Union that wants to cage certain economic discourses finds only the US inside. It’s about time, however, that it stops stirring up a clearly Russian population, even if the Western narrative doesn't say that. Where do we want the EU to arrive, dear Obama, in Manchuria?
...this, too, is imperialism.
Other quotes from the Pravda article also coincide with this thought, as well as others I communicated:
- I think that in this geopolitical game the EU is not following its own interests, and under pressure from the U.S. is sacrificing their countries and peoples just to drag Ukraine to its side. Ukraine is a very important link in the geopolitical strategy of the U.S. attack on Russia, and in the future, China.” Petko Ganchev believes that “promises will be replicated, “but gradually requirements will be put forward to clarify the situation and isolate right-wing nationalists from power.
- (in terms of a concern for the reemergence of nationalism in the EU) However, assistance to Ukraine will have a negative impact on the European Union where many economies are in distress. Assistance to the country that is not a member of the European Union may be seen by the member countries as waste and politicking. This will lead to strengthening of the position of the nationalists in the upcoming elections to the European Parliament to be held on the same day with the Ukrainian election on May 25.
- (in terms of the problem with Ukraine's oligarchic economic structure and why Russia is more adapted to take responsibility, rather than the EU) “I cannot imagine how this money can be quickly procured, the more so that the Ukrainian economy is unable to send it in the right direction. This is an oligarchic economy with no accountability, and the EU simply has no idea what will happen with the money,” told Pravda.ru Alexander Rahr.
Perhaps this marks a change from the Hillary Doctrine.Amsterhammer said:“You just don’t in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pre-text.”
John Kerry
- Sep 8, 2009
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- Apr 2, 2009
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FoxxyBrown1111 said:No, no they are not incompetent.... Good that I just kill my brain western civilization style, watching the Oscars
OK, back... Those politic puppets know whom they serve, they know who the masters are. Incompetent are the brainwashed voters who bought the "revolution story", again.
The EU plan was made up long ago. The bigger it becomes, the more you can divide union workers of the West and replace them with cheaper ones. The bigger they become the more CCC bonds are saved by the "rich" taxpayers of the west. The banksters love it. Goldman Sachs has its guys at the EZB. The bigger they become the more sales markets open up for all the needless §hit that is produced by the big international companies. Monsanto will love to have another opportunity (once the free trade contract is signed; only a matter of time) to make their experiments on cheap accrued farms in the east.
And so on...
This is actually a rather lucid analysis and it is the same in Italy that shamelessly voted the “liberal” Berlusconi for twenty years, because the Pied Piper and his liberal worldview charmed a distracted people and promised to fulfill their puerile dreams. That he was unfit to govern and un-presentable by any normal civil standards mattered nothing to those who voted for him, because the only thing the liberal world view cares about is self-gratification. The idea being that Bersluconi, the "self made man," was an exemplum of the "revolutionary story" you cite and that the Knight, therefore, could lead Italy toward the path of "liberty" (from the shackles of an evil socialism) and material prosperity. The Italians were already then much better off, than since his "revolution," but never mind. Hence creating a need to buy all the crappola (needless ***) the great companies put out on the consumer market, through embracing conspicuous consumption as a model of virtue.
Berlusconi, the "liberal," could not have been more illiberal and anti-free-market in his personal business practices, which then came to color his political leadership in cementing personal relations with no less than the Tsar himself, Putin, over Gazprom and who knows what else, for which companies he had immense shares in benefited exceedingly in the deals. Hence matters that concerned the entire Italian public, were reduced to a private and very occult personal sphere and largely to that sphere's benefit. This, I think, is that conflict of interests in current democracy which Berlusconi perhaps personified more than any other political figure, to not besmirch the word statesman. He attempted to fulfill the revolution, but failed, though; largely because of a much stronger union infrastructure (unlike Thatcher) and because of a a parasitic party system that works on a preferential treatment clientele basis in the dispensing of state contracts to the private sector in the form of simonies that's as old as the ancient Romans here. And he never resolved the corruption, rather he only favored it. So much for the liberal revolution. And this explains why he and Putin had a magnetic attraction.
It has been thus all over the West during this period as well. For twenty-five years there has been an all-out war waged on the European social-democratic model by economic liberalism, while the disappearance of Europe's left, which I have also discussed, has led to the cultural (cultural, even before political) vacuum that has paved the way for the unobstructed triumph of those banksters you mention, and finacialization, as the new transnational global order that has replaced state sovereignty (Greece being the leading example). All in name of tearing down the last regulatory barriers of local economies, in favor of an ever expansive and hegemonic market system.
It's true the Americans have been the guiding architects behind the ideological project, with ample compliance, however, by the liberal faction in Europe that has been willing to sell off, piece by piece, that social architecture that organically built a sense of community, which today is being replaced by shopping malls and fast food. Though this is what gets called structural refom (to conform to the designs of the new architecture imposed).
PS: Agreed on the Oscars.
- Jul 4, 2009
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...it has been said that a picture is worth a thousand words so what is a video worth?....well the following is a peek into a world run by fascists and it speaks volumes...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT35J5C3EWs#t=30
( btw the language that the thug masquerading as a patriot in the about video uses is not remotely classic Ukrainian but a very Russified patois that bears only a passing resemblance to the Ukrainian language )
...the article that the video was from pulled also had the following troubling bit ( which has been brought up in several other reports and obliquely confirmed by video shown on the CBC...though in fairness the CBC video did not report actual pro-active sniping but it did show a very elaborate sniping position that was very ready to go...)...
"What provided the rationale for the coup d'état was the killing of demonstrators by uniformed snipers, blamed on the previous government. The overthrown president, who has since fled to Russia, was accused of mass murder, and the new government demanded his extradition (a dumb move, since Russia's constitution forbids extradition). But there are serious questions about this interpretation of events: the special forces were never issued rifles and were never ordered to open fire on the protesters; there were quite a few special forces members themselves among those killed; the killings were carried out in such a manner as to incite rather than quell protest, by targeting women, bystanders and those assisting the wounded. The killings were followed by a professionally orchestrated public relations campaign, complete with a catchy name—“Heaven's Hundred” (“Небесная сотня”)—complete with candlelight vigils, rapid clean-up and laying of wreaths at the scene of the crime and so on."
....the above from..... http://cluborlov.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/reichstag-fire-in-kiev.html?m=1 ....worth a read if only for the update part which among other things shows the call for mobilization has been a resounding flop...
" The Kiev regime announces general mobilization; only 1% to 1.5% of conscripts bother to turn up"
...real genuine type resonance with the general populace it seems...
Cheers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT35J5C3EWs#t=30
( btw the language that the thug masquerading as a patriot in the about video uses is not remotely classic Ukrainian but a very Russified patois that bears only a passing resemblance to the Ukrainian language )
...the article that the video was from pulled also had the following troubling bit ( which has been brought up in several other reports and obliquely confirmed by video shown on the CBC...though in fairness the CBC video did not report actual pro-active sniping but it did show a very elaborate sniping position that was very ready to go...)...
"What provided the rationale for the coup d'état was the killing of demonstrators by uniformed snipers, blamed on the previous government. The overthrown president, who has since fled to Russia, was accused of mass murder, and the new government demanded his extradition (a dumb move, since Russia's constitution forbids extradition). But there are serious questions about this interpretation of events: the special forces were never issued rifles and were never ordered to open fire on the protesters; there were quite a few special forces members themselves among those killed; the killings were carried out in such a manner as to incite rather than quell protest, by targeting women, bystanders and those assisting the wounded. The killings were followed by a professionally orchestrated public relations campaign, complete with a catchy name—“Heaven's Hundred” (“Небесная сотня”)—complete with candlelight vigils, rapid clean-up and laying of wreaths at the scene of the crime and so on."
....the above from..... http://cluborlov.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/reichstag-fire-in-kiev.html?m=1 ....worth a read if only for the update part which among other things shows the call for mobilization has been a resounding flop...
" The Kiev regime announces general mobilization; only 1% to 1.5% of conscripts bother to turn up"
...real genuine type resonance with the general populace it seems...
Cheers
- Sep 25, 2009
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so what is going to happen next in ukraine ?
trying to answer my own question, i just finished scanning a lot of different sources...to my slight surprise, it appears that crimea has not been totally integrated into the local governed, russian-supported authority. surprised, because as of sunday, the main media in the west was giving that impression. however, after just watching france 24, it looks like there are 15,000 ukrainian military on the peninsula who are surrounded and locked on their bases. they are being peacefully persuaded to switch sides or leave crimea. so far, they refused. other centre-ruled structures and military have indeed switched sides.
15,000 is a big number given that the entire ukrainian military is said to number about 200,000
another article (reuters) reported that when the supreme navy commander who already switched sides, spoke to the navy officers still loyal to kiev, he was jeered and had to leave. all this indicates that the peaceful confrontation can suddenly turn into a real hot war at the slightest provocation or lost nerves.
what's next ?
one, optimum for the russians variant, is that the remaining ukranian troops leave or surrender w/o a shot. if they do, the russians will consolidate the penisula and open the negotiations. if they dont, the negotiations will likely not start while the shooting may
second variant, optimum for kiev, the russians baulk under pressure and start negations about the new crimea autonomy and guaranteed rights for their fleet. frankly, i do not see this as plausible given vlad's character and the investment he already made.
thirdly, a 'second front' may suddenly erupt in one of the eastern cities via a grab of local power or buildings forcing the authorities to use force and further inciting of the crowds. that would lead to a situation that happened in kiev but with the opposte political outcome favouring separation. as kiev would scramble to extinguish that fire, another one would erupt in, say, donets...
right now, i do not see any strategy from neither the russians nor the ukrainians. as to the us and europe, they appear even more confused.
i see more escalation and soon.
trying to answer my own question, i just finished scanning a lot of different sources...to my slight surprise, it appears that crimea has not been totally integrated into the local governed, russian-supported authority. surprised, because as of sunday, the main media in the west was giving that impression. however, after just watching france 24, it looks like there are 15,000 ukrainian military on the peninsula who are surrounded and locked on their bases. they are being peacefully persuaded to switch sides or leave crimea. so far, they refused. other centre-ruled structures and military have indeed switched sides.
15,000 is a big number given that the entire ukrainian military is said to number about 200,000
another article (reuters) reported that when the supreme navy commander who already switched sides, spoke to the navy officers still loyal to kiev, he was jeered and had to leave. all this indicates that the peaceful confrontation can suddenly turn into a real hot war at the slightest provocation or lost nerves.
what's next ?
one, optimum for the russians variant, is that the remaining ukranian troops leave or surrender w/o a shot. if they do, the russians will consolidate the penisula and open the negotiations. if they dont, the negotiations will likely not start while the shooting may
second variant, optimum for kiev, the russians baulk under pressure and start negations about the new crimea autonomy and guaranteed rights for their fleet. frankly, i do not see this as plausible given vlad's character and the investment he already made.
thirdly, a 'second front' may suddenly erupt in one of the eastern cities via a grab of local power or buildings forcing the authorities to use force and further inciting of the crowds. that would lead to a situation that happened in kiev but with the opposte political outcome favouring separation. as kiev would scramble to extinguish that fire, another one would erupt in, say, donets...
right now, i do not see any strategy from neither the russians nor the ukrainians. as to the us and europe, they appear even more confused.
i see more escalation and soon.
To quote a friend of me: Why can't we just nuke the middle east psychos and those russian *******s and be done with it!
- Apr 12, 2009
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- Sep 25, 2009
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either the crap is about to hit the fan...or it is another militious rumour..
the ukrainia agency unian referring to the interfax agency reported that the russians issued an ultimatum to 2 ukrainia vessels: surrender by 6 pm local time or they will begin shooting.
the crazy stuff is that i could not find the report on the interfax web page and that it is already 6:45pm in crimea...45 min past the ultimatum
then, france24 reported about the ultimatum to a land base referring to the same source, again, not to be found in the interfax...
the ukrainia agency unian referring to the interfax agency reported that the russians issued an ultimatum to 2 ukrainia vessels: surrender by 6 pm local time or they will begin shooting.
the crazy stuff is that i could not find the report on the interfax web page and that it is already 6:45pm in crimea...45 min past the ultimatum
then, france24 reported about the ultimatum to a land base referring to the same source, again, not to be found in the interfax
...python said:either the crap is about to hit the fan...or it is another militious rumour..
the ukrainia agency unian referring to the interfax agency reported that the russians issued an ultimatum to 2 ukrainia vessels: surrender by 6 pm local time or they will begin shooting.
the crazy stuff is that i could not find the report on the interfax web page and that it is already 6:45pm in crimea...45 min past the ultimatum
then, france24 reported about the ultimatum to a land base referring to the same source, again, not to be found in the interfax
Yes, lots of uncertainty and rumours. We'll see.
- Sep 8, 2009
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there seems to be an ultimatum given to all the ukrainian forces in crimeea.
hopefully ukrainian will choose the logical decision and will leave the region. i don't know what was in khruschev's head when he decided to give it to ukraine...vodka i guess.
hopefully ukrainian will choose the logical decision and will leave the region. i don't know what was in khruschev's head when he decided to give it to ukraine...vodka i guess.
- Apr 30, 2011
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python said:either the crap is about to hit the fan...or it is another militious rumour..
the ukrainia agency unian referring to the interfax agency reported that the russians issued an ultimatum to 2 ukrainia vessels: surrender by 6 pm local time or they will begin shooting.
the crazy stuff is that i could not find the report on the interfax web page and that it is already 6:45pm in crimea...45 min past the ultimatum
then, france24 reported about the ultimatum to a land base referring to the same source, again, not to be found in the interfax
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/03/uk-ukraine-crisis-ultimatum-idUKBREA221AI20140303
- Sep 25, 2009
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here is a google of the original ukrainian source - unianNetserk said:
http://translate.google.com/transla...ul-ultimatum-ukrainskim-moryakam.html&act=url
again all the secondary sources referred to interfax, check for yourself - none to be found no matter how far back you google or page...
several minutes ago, interfax published a rebuttal of any ultimatums as intentionally false
http://www.interfax.ru/world/362433
thus it was a ukrainian disinformation to put pressure on 'the international community' to clean the ukrainian crap
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