World Politics

[blutto]

Putin as a rallying banner for anti-imperialism is so ridiculous it's actually offensive.

....well...it kinda depends... if one were to base their view of the world on the terminally simplistic white hat black hat narrative that you see in the moving pictures and on the Tee Vee you may have a point....but if one didn't have their head suck up, errr, in the sand over last several years ( say from the Kosovo incident, thru Iraq, thru Afghanistan, thru Libya, thru Egypt, thru Syria...and yes there is also Chechnya...) the idea that Russia has become somewhat of a rallying banner for anti-imperialism is actually not that ridiculous ( and the sad thing is that isn't that difficult to do especially given how the other side has been behaving over, say, the last several centuries or so )....

...and believe you me, that given my family history that is a very bitter pill to swallow....but historical fact is historical fact and the reality on the ground is kinda hard to ignore ( unless, of course one needs to in order to play out the aforementioned white hat black hat fantasy ) ...do remember, 54-40 was, a long time ago, not the name of a Canadian rock band, but rather a rallying cry for a war fueled by the most rabid of imperial ambitions ( whose practitioners not only saw themselves in lily white hats but believed themselves to be anointed by god himself....sanctimonious warriors waging a holy war ...sound kinda familiar?...)

Cheers

 

[blutto]

I think, Putin will try take them too, and head for east relationships (especially w/China). The West will try to take Ukraine into EU and NATO, no matter how high the price is (pacting with oligarchs and dumb extreme-right people), re-arm them with nuclear weapons, all in the name of big oil, military complex and Monsanto-like co-orperations.

....the following doesn't come from a writer who is not the most balanced of sources...but it was handy and it does reflect a meme that has been echoed in numerous other more reliable articles....

...the gist is that the economic/political coupling btwn China and Russia has been given a real push by recent events ( and has helped to sweep aside decades of mistrust...do remember the Soviets had a huge presence of the border of the communist "ally", China, because they feared them mightily )....

...the title of the article speaks volumes about the direction Russia will likely?/possibly? take in dealing with recent friction with the West...

Petrodollar Alert: Putin Prepares To Announce "Holy Grail" Gas Deal With China

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-...n-prepares-announce-holy-grail-gas-deal-china

Cheers

 

[python]

Putin as a rallying banner for anti-imperialism is so ridiculous it's actually offensive.

sometimes, in fact more often than sometimes, in today's indifferent and tired europe, people rally behind various 'isms' out of contrarian reasons rather than true beliefs. one does not have to love putin, to see that the putschists who took power in kiev dont represent their people at larged, are anti-democratic and were in fact puppets of the west who installed them.

if they were not the direct victims of the prevailing double standards - say kosovo aloud - they at least feel like holding a mirror to their complicit, corrupt leaders. that putin gets credited for the duplicity of europe, is hardly his fault or weakness.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I'm confused. You're speaking about Russia, right?

Make your jokes, I do mine...
But you may enlighten me why you are so concerned about Putin. You live in Russia? You are married to some girl of Pu$$y Riot? Or what is your problem?
Before the west calls out Russia as the evil, they should clean their own doorstep, instead of expanding and give the bills for this invasions to their not asked, hard working taxpayers*.
A very short summary for you my dear friend:
1. Western "NGOs" sponsored the putsch of Ukraine, thus Russia had to react
2. NATO (against all deals) got closer and closer to Russias border
3. People in EU europe are not allowed to vote on anything that EU decides against their people (unlike the people of Crimea for example)
4. After 1945: USA and their puppets
indeed occupied countless countries for monetary (under the "freedom & democracy" banner) and natural ressources reasons (either with direct invasion, by open putsches, or "silent" putsches), and literally burned them down or let the people suffer more than they ever did before under their own basterds (a few examples; Chile, Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq, Afganistan, basically almost all ex eastern block countries, Grenada, Nicaraqua, Congo, Indonesia, Guatemala, Phillipines, Iran, Lebanon, Cuba (failed), Laos, Venezuela, Bolivia, Honduras, Argentina, Angola, El Salvador, Libyia, Panama, Haiti, ex Yugoslavia, and the latest coupe Ukraine).
And now you certainly have that list for Russia too, don´t you?
And now bring it...

But hey, go on and criticize the messenger. The neocons and imperialists love guys like you, who don´t even see how their freedom, democracy and living standards gets cut inch by inch.... NSA loves you too, BTW.

* Ok, guys like you love to pay and work for the riches. Mission accomplished by MSM which is infiltrated by "journalists"
(like politicians) to brainwash people in the name of the owners of the big three (military complex, big oil, multi co-orperations like Monsanto)

Wonder if you still have time to celebrate our "freedom & democracy" once your paycheck or pension is cut in half like it happened to Greece people, and soon will happen to the "freed" Ukraines.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

...

That Russia is heading east to couple with China was also in DER SPIEGEL. So it´s not unrealistic.
We EU europeans will pay a big price for the puppets like Merkel who always serves big bro USA, but never the own people.
So why is she re-elected every 4 years? Answer: People are brainwashed and easily distracted by the newest evil that threatens their "freedom". No matter how absurd the story is made up, our naive and brainwashed people are buying.
I couldn´t care less for those who elect their own doom year in year out if it wouldn´t impact my life.

Can´t remember who said it, but it´s a nice summary:
"The western system is captitalism is for the poor, and socialism for the (few) rich".

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

sometimes, in fact more often than sometimes, in today's indifferent and tired europe, people rally behind various 'isms' out of contrarian reasons rather than true beliefs. one does not have to love putin, to see that the putschists who took power in kiev dont represent their people at larged, are anti-democratic and were in fact puppets of the west who installed them.

if they were not the direct victims of the prevailing double standards - say kosovo aloud - they at least feel like holding a mirror to their complicit, corrupt leaders. that putin gets credited for the duplicity of europe, is hardly his fault or weakness.

Amen... 100% correct.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

You guys are hilarious. Black and white seems the way to go.

For some reason you don't seem to realize it is not impossible to criticize the western neo-imperialism (criticism I fully support), without idolizing Vladimir Putin as if you were teenage girl in a Justin Bieber concert.

 

[python]

Let me ask you, b. soldier, is karzai, the 100% puppet president of afghanistan, who was installed, financed by america yet barely surviving, is his support for crimea joining russia (a fact you can easily verify) because he is putin's admirer ?

or was it because:

….He is sick and tired of killings of innocent civilians by drones in the name of goodness
…He is sick and tired of the invaders urinating on the corps of his compatriots ?
…he is sick and tired of the american arrogance demanding extra judicial status (in exchange for continued help post 2014) for the crimes like that ?

or

.. his support for putin was merely his way, as powerless and totally dependent on the us as he is, to say fork you mr. obama for all the injustice and suffering you brought upon my people while lying you came to enlighten us…

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

I don't know.

(It also has nothing to do with my post)

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

You guys are hilarious. Black and white seems the way to go.

For some reason you don't seem to realize it is not impossible to criticize the western neo-imperialism (criticism I fully support), without idolizing Vladimir Putin as if you were teenage girl in a Justin Bieber concert.

Black and White are the idiots who think the good guys stop the bad ones (the latest in a long list being Putin & Russia).
Black and White are the morons who think there was a true peoples revolution in Ukraine, and so on...

OTOH who is idolizing Putin? Other than me*, who just put his pic in the avatar to stick it to all arrogant gods own country talk heads? (We have a lot here in this forum too)...

* No one needs to be waken up that Putin is no good guy (the MSM does it 24 hours on 365 days a year basis). But people have to be, who still think USA brings freedom and democracy. And this awful media attacks against Russia (who in this certain case only defend themselves) need to be called out...
Don´t attack the posters here who actually are not black and white, but bring informative posts, instead of short "bashing Russia" posts.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

I guess you are just reading different media than I am, since that MSR does not ignore fascist involvement in the Ukrainian revolution; it is not one sided supporter of monsanto, it is not the biggest fan of all the neoliberal crap pushed to and by Europe and it's periphery, it is not idolizing G7, nor NATO and it is very negative about the western involvement in African and Arabian countries.

The ones who are black and white (West=good, Russia=bad), are definitely a minority, as far as I'm aware of. So the only reason I could imagine for many people here not to realize that, was some sort of Putin fandomism...

 

[adriano01]

political headache

 

[RetroActive]

Putin could just sit back and let the Ukraine stew in it's own juices until it implodes. Given the IMF schedule there'll likely be more unrest. If Putin wanted to get more serious he could cut off the American supply line to Afghanistan that goes through Russia. I haven't heard too much about that from the Russians though.

It seems the great game is swinging back towards Syria/Iran. Israel has been foaming at the mouth even more than usual lately. Then today...
Turkey downs Syria military jet 'in airspace violation'
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-26706417

All this crap will go on and on...until planet Jonestown mixes up a final batch of kool-aid.

George Carlin was a prophet.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I guess you are just reading different media than I am, since that MSR does not ignore fascist involvement in the Ukrainian revolution; it is not one sided supporter of monsanto, it is not the biggest fan of all the neoliberal crap pushed to and by Europe and it's periphery, it is not idolizing G7, nor NATO and it is very negative about the western involvement in African and Arabian countries.

The ones who are black and white (West=good, Russia=bad), are definitely a minority, as far as I'm aware of. So the only reason I could imagine for many people here not to realize that, was some sort of Putin fandomism...

Indeed it seems we read different MSM, or the ones in Belgium are better...

 

[blutto]

You guys are hilarious. Black and white seems the way to go.

For some reason you don't seem to realize it is not impossible to criticize the western neo-imperialism (criticism I fully support), without idolizing Vladimir Putin as if you were teenage girl in a Justin Bieber concert.

...its kinda funny how this meme has become the predominant meme pushed by the Western media...and yeah it does seem to be the way to go if someone doesn't care to think about it too much ( and yes this is complicated and there is a lot of stuff hidden behind the curtain...)...

....but what is really interesting is that this meme is being pushed with the absolute lack of questions about the Who the West is supporting in this confrontation ( though to be honest it is hard to sell fascist thugs as leaders in a glorious revolution ) and the What we are supposed to be fighting for ( though admittedly again a hard sell when the point is to allow the banksters and mega-corps to go in and destroy the country and royally screw over the natives.. )...

Cheers

 

[Christian]

Adolfo Suárez, first democratic president of Spain after the dictatorship, died today at age 82.

He was, in my humble opinion, one of the greatest men of the late 20th century. His achievement is truly extraordinary, if you don't know him very well, I invite you to read up on his story, it's worth it.

Que en paz descanse.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

...its kinda funny how this meme has become the predominant meme pushed by the Western media...and yeah it does seem to be the way to go if someone doesn't care to think about it too much ( and yes this is complicated and there is a lot of stuff hidden behind the curtain...)...

....and what is really interesting is that this meme is being pushed with the absolute lack of questions about the Who the West is supporting in this confrontation ( though to be honest it is hard to sell fascist thugs as leaders in a glorious revolution ) and the What we are supposed to be fighting for ( though admittedly again a hard sell when the point is to allow the banksters and mega-corps to go in and destroy the country and royally screw over the natives.. )...

Cheers

As usual, right on the point...

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Interesting to see, how a lot of Western-European extreme right parties (PVV in the Netherlands, VB in Belgium, FN in France) are outspoken pro Russia, which in his turn is the outspoken adversary of fascism.

PVV and FN who both got extremely good results in the recent local elections btw, although I am mostly looking forward to the Turkish elections.

Gezi park protests:

yesterday's AKP rally:

twitter.com.tr

In the meantime, on still existing Turkish twitter, a guy called @fuatavni is claiming to have proof of large scale electoral fraud being prepared. Of course this might be a troll, but it's interesting reading material.

 

[Echoes]

 

[python]

not sure i follow..are you saying those increasing in popularity right parties fascist ? if so, they'd be outlawed officially, wouldn't they, and not being able to stand in any elections....

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Wow, please count the number of fascist references in this topic before calling goodwin on me

Are you saying Svoboda are not fascists? Or are you saying fascism in Ukraine is only supported by a small minority, being able to grab an extreme and unbalanced amount of power during a chaotic protest/revolution, even though they are not supported by a majority of the population?

You are the ones so happy in finding conspiracy theories about fascists taking over Ukraine.

 

[del1962]

not sure i follow..are you saying those increasing in popularity right parties fascist ? if so, they'd be outlawed officially, wouldn't they, and not being able to stand in any elections....

Parties are not outlawed because they are far right though

BNP in Britain, Front National in France, they could both be considered fascist,

by outlawing them you create more problems then you solve.

Quite concerning though are the gains in local elections made by Le Pen's Front National though.

 

[RetroActive]

Wow, please count the number of fascist references in this topic before calling goodwin on me

Are you saying Svoboda are not fascists? Or are you saying fascism in Ukraine is only supported by a small minority, being able to grab an extreme and unbalanced amount of power during a chaotic protest/revolution, even though they are not supported by a majority of the population?

You are the ones so happy in finding conspiracy theories about fascists taking over Ukraine.

Thank you for demonstrating how utterly useless the term "conspiracy theory" has become. Have a cracker Polly, you'll want to wash it down with some kool-aid of course.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

just call it far-fetched and unproven theories then, if you prefer. (I mean, I know western companies and governments have sponsored pro western NGOs in the Ukraine, but that doesn't proof this is a fascist coup instead of a people's revolution)

 

[Christian]

Obama called the annexation of the Crimea by Russia a "blatant violation of international right" in Amsterdam today. How can anyone still take this guy seriously, is what I ask myself.

Make room, Obama coming through:

(At the Rijksmuseum)

Obama stepped from his chopper into a limousine for the last 100m to the entrance of the museum.