World Politics

[laurel1969]

If you can't vote yourselves out, get yourselves kicked out!

Your day will come Scotland.

Uh duh they don't want to vote themselves out.

Most Scots want to stay in the Union. Scotland didn't want its 'day'.

Maybe now, though, the issues can be debated sensibly and proper answers found for how an independent Scotland might fare.

 

[ferryman]

Go Dundee

 

[ferryman]

Reluctant bed time for me. Leaving it at 49/51. Jeez I never thought it would be this close earlier this evening.

 

[laurel1969]

No, it's just a political party like any other but had an independence vote as part of its manifesto, hence the Indy vote. It's likely they will have a landslide win in the next Scottish election. And now will continue to be represented in Westminster (and whisper it, have a vote on English matters) That's fair eh

I think you'll find they won't have a vote on English affairs for much longer

 

[auscyclefan94]

Glasgow about to come in but it seems it is all over for Scottish Independence.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Glasgow votes YES, but not strongly enough. Its over.

 

[ferryman]

Glasgow votes YES, but not strongly enough. Its over.

I couldn't sleep but yes it is. With Fife and Edinburgh to come it will be a bit of a landslide. Hey ho.

 

[ferryman]

I think you'll find they won't have a vote on English affairs for much longer

That would be fair. It's good to be part of the happy UK family again

 

[laurel1969]

You can put that down to your fellow Scots not wanting to leave. Nothing to do with us down south.

I wouldn't feel too bad. Scotland doesn't want independence but it looks like its about to get devo max with no cut in funding (ie. We'll still be subsidising the Scots @ £1300 a head). Just feel glad that the English are so politically apathetic and ignorant as to not rise up against the inequities of that.

For me down here, I'm relieved for the sake of my Scottish family who were stressed by this as they thought independence was "crazy". I'm hoping that it shakes up the UK political system as a whole.

Do you think you could persuade your fellow SNP voters to vote Labour in the next election? Quite a few of us down here would be very grateful.

But anyway, what was the real result of this vote? It was a vote for unity.

 

[laurel1969]

I was wondering what the demographics of the vote would be. I'd noticed that Salmonds campaign was short on boring detail and big on chest-thumping nationalist rhetoric, thus the kind of stuff that is appealing to the...ahem...less well-educated and least well off.

The demographics of the voting have a fairly clear split between abc1-dominant areas voting no and c2de voting yes.

 

[Echoes]

Yeah, great day for anti-Europeism,today and for national sovereigntism.

Unfotunately with these Eurocrats, if you dare to contradict thème, they'll strike back, like when French and Dutch said NO to the ECT in 2005.

Still CHAMPAIGN

 

[Hawkwood]

55% No, and 45% Yes with all votes counted. Salmond acknowledging that the issue has been put to bed for a generation.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Don't be ridiculous, more than half the services you quoted for Scotland are already provided outwith England and the rest could be dealt with easily in an Independent Scotland. Why do you care if Scotland votes YES.

For a living, I manage complex transition programmes for organisations and, frequently, establish the business case for these transitions. I need to define what the end solution will look like, what benefits this will bring and what the cost of that transition is. At that point, and if the risks associated with that are acceptable and mitigated, the organisation may want to proceed.

Obviously I don't have any experience of managing something is massively complicated as breaking up a country, but I can tell you that to agree a solution within the political conditions in place and then carry out all activities required in implementation that end solution within 18 months is not going to happen.

Your post actually succintly sums up the Yes vote. The rational 55% want to see want the business case. The Yes vote accuses them of being ridiculous for wanting to see it.

I care because, as I've stated, I'm a stakeholder. An an English tax payer, I'll pay for the transition for sure (although I don't know how much, as I haven't been told), but I've yet to see what benefits it will bring me. If you can convince me of that, I'm quite happy for you lot to go your own way.

 

[del1962]

Let me expand further Del, to probably dismay you. It means every Scottish MP in Westminster (mostly Labour) and there are a lot, have a vote on all things UK. The Scottish Government is SNP led at the moment (with a few MPs in Westminster) but also have a vote on all things Union. At the moment SNP rule Scotland (different Government from the UK, Labour could win the next Scottish Gov't vote but unlikely). Now that it is a No vote we are left again with this ridiculous situation with a win/win situation for Scotland in the eyes of others. And I don't blame them. I'm looking forward to the backlash.

You think it bothers me that Scottish MPs have a vote on English affairs, one of the main reason I am happy with the NO vote is the Scottish Vote offers a counter balance to the south east of England, I live in aregion that returns a higher proportion of labour votes than Scotland ever will

 

[del1962]

No, it's just a political party like any other but had an independence vote as part of its manifesto, hence the Indy vote. It's likely they will have a landslide win in the next Scottish election. And now will continue to be represented in Westminster (and whisper it, have a vote on English matters) That's fair eh

The Tartan tories are a political party in the same way UKIP are

 

[TheSpud]

All indications are that it is going to be a very comfortable No vote in the Scottish Independence vote. Fair enough, can't argue with that, huge disappointment but that's democracy. Good luck now to Cameron et al to get those promised extra powers past their back benchers. Interesting times lie ahead for the continued Union.

My prediction right here is that if the Conservatives win the next General Election and UKIP continue to rise forcing a vote on EU membership, there will be another Indy vote in Scotland in the next 5 years which will result in a YES vote.

As I said interesting times lie ahead.

l

A bit of an anti-climax in the end if I say so myself, at least though the result is clear. If it had been, say, 50.3% v 49.7% then I think things could have rumbled on for a while yet.

What I do hope now is that there is a new and sensible constitutional settlement for the UK with parliaments for each country (even if that is as simple as having only the English MPs meeting for 2 days a week on English matters). A kind of Federal model maybe.

Interestingly I see it being much more likely that there is an EU exit under a future Labour government than under the Conservatives, this being my reasoning.

If Cameron wins, he'll fluff the negotiations but will get some concessions which will probably be enough for him to recommend staying in which the country will then vote for. The case will be a fudge - IN (with a few more powers) or OUT and completely unknown.

If Cameron loses, he'll be replaced by a more Eurosceptic leader (perhaps David Davies who came second last time). At the same time there will be a Labour or Labour-Liberal coalition who are very pro-EU but will still take the opportunity to 'lance the boil' (as it were) by having an in / out referendum. The case will be much clearer - IN (and much more pro-EU and possibly more pro-EURO) or OUT. The OUT campaign would probably be led by Davies (assuming leader) who I think the public will warm to much more than Cameron (much more 'normal' background and not seen as a toff). And because the IN side will be much more pro-EU/EURO people will be reminded of what happened to Greece / Spain / Portugal / Ireland and will not like it (or not like that we may have to pay to prop them up). Also the immigration issue will come in to it as well.


What amazes me is that no-one has really thought / talked about the third option - the UK moving to EFTA (European Free Trade Association). We would have the free market but would regain control of a number of areas that concern us. It works for Norway, Iceland, etc. so why not us? It always seems to be IN / OUT (fully).

As you say - there could (and hopefully will be) some very interesting times ahead.

 

[Hawkwood]

My prediction right here is that if the Conservatives win the next General Election and UKIP continue to rise forcing a vote on EU membership, there will be another Indy vote in Scotland in the next 5 years which will result in a YES vote.

As I said interesting times lie ahead.

l

A party would have to get elected into Westminster with a manifesto pledge to hold another vote on independence, that's unlikely to happen for a very long time to come. As a kid I can remember that parties in Wales and Scotland were pushing for a vote on independence, it's taken 40 odd years for that vote to happen.

 

[Hawkwood]

If you can't vote yourselves out, get yourselves kicked out!

Your day will come Scotland.

The day did come, it was yesterday, after 40 plus years of pushing for an in out vote. Most Scots preferred to stay in.

 

[python]

as an outsider, i do not have a strong opinion on the outcome...yet, i'm glad a lose-lose situation was avoided.

as long as there were no outside players covertly manipulating the vote - and i'm not aware of such - i feel comfortable with the outcome.

 

[Pricey_sky]

I didn't expect the margin to be so clear cut, I wonder what on earth happened to those who promised to say yes? Were they just humouring the yes campaigners I wonder. The turnout was also a little below what I expected, although still reasonably high.

Bookies called it early, a yes vote was only 9/4 at one point but had gone out to 4/1 yesterday morning and was then a huge 10/1 by the time polls closed. I was tempted to stay up and watch a few results come in but those odds made it a certainty that Scotland would vote no. The bookies rarely make such a huge mistake

Big year ahead for Uk politics with next years election looming.

 

[Hawkwood]

I didn't expect the margin to be so clear cut, I wonder what on earth happened to those who promised to say yes? Were they just humouring the yes campaigners I wonder. The turnout was also a little below what I expected, although still reasonably high.

Bookies called it early, a yes vote was only 9/4 at one point but had gone out to 4/1 yesterday morning and was then a huge 10/1 by the time polls closed. I was tempted to stay up and watch a few results come in but those odds made it a certainty that Scotland would vote no. The bookies rarely make such a huge mistake

Big year ahead for Uk politics with next years election looming.

I forget what the `haven't decided yet' figures were leading up to the vote, probably a big chunk of them voted no.

 

[King Boonen]

I didn't expect the margin to be so clear cut, I wonder what on earth happened to those who promised to say yes? Were they just humouring the yes campaigners I wonder. The turnout was also a little below what I expected, although still reasonably high.

Bookies called it early, a yes vote was only 9/4 at one point but had gone out to 4/1 yesterday morning and was then a huge 10/1 by the time polls closed. I was tempted to stay up and watch a few results come in but those odds made it a certainty that Scotland would vote no. The bookies rarely make such a huge mistake

Big year ahead for Uk politics with next years election looming.

Most of the reporting on the campaign prior to the last week came from Glasgow and Holyrood. Unsurprisingly Holyrood was dominated by the Yes campaign (although not Edinburgh as a whole) and Glasgow was a clear vote for Yes.

If they had bothered to get out to farming communities in the Highlands or even go up to Aberdeen earlier in the campaign then you may have been less surprised.

I also think that the result is an indication of how people on the No side felt about displaying that decision. However people want to spin it, there was definitely an undercurrent of aggression that made many No voters reluctant to display that fact.

I forget what the `haven't decided yet' figures were leading up to the vote, probably a big chunk of them voted no.

I think it was 500,000. More than the difference in the final vote. Interesting to note that around 790,000 Scottish residents are not Scottish. About double the difference in the final vote...

 

[Echoes]

Highlanders are too stupid to vote correctly, that's what you mean?

Farmers have common sense. They know that there's no difference between a Scot and an Englishman. You all speak the same language.

Why can't conformists accept the fact that the "populus" have a different opinion?


It really reminds me of the French referendum on the European constitution in 2005. They said no. Reaction by the elite was "They didn't know how to vote". At that time, big cities also voted Yes and the countryside rather No...

 

[King Boonen]

Highlanders are too stupid to vote correctly, that's what you mean?

Farmers have common sense. They know that there's no difference between a Scot and an Englishman. You all speak the same language.

Why can't conformists accept the fact that the "populus" have a different opinion?


It really reminds me of the French referendum on the European constitution in 2005. They said no. Reaction by the elite was "They didn't know how to vote". At that time, big cities also voted Yes and the countryside rather No...

Is this directed at me? If so I suggest you go back and actually read what I wrote and then educate yourself about the results in specific areas.

My point was that the majority of reporting came from Glasgow, where Yes won a clear majority, so would give the impression that it was likely to be a closer result. If the media had bothered going to the Highlands, or even ventured out of the central belt, they would have found that many areas were very pro union and their reporting would have given a better indication as to how the result would go.

 

[Echoes]

Okay I misread your post. Apologies.