World Politics

[fatandfast]

Don't know much about the man or his politics, but from a european point of view, Obama is the best that's happened to america for international pr since WWII...

Your point of view is shared by everybody I know that lives in Europe and Africa. The health care crisis/issue has polarized lots of different sub-sects of the US population. Basic fear of the unknown. Many have voiced here on the form that medical care for every person is wrong and some grand socialist agenda that will bring America back instead of forward. As a racer I received medical care in 3 countries in Europe and spent less than a suit of clothes on all of it,including prescribed medicines . Obama has taken on the American corprate greed machine on too many different fronts and is finding trying to change the direction of a river is impossible

 

[ravens]

OK, if we were to "debate" I would ask you , do you think Obama hates America because of his slave roots or is it his Muslim leanings?

Top of the page is your post that I asked the above question in response too. Under that is what I guess is your answer. My question had to do with your statement that the President of the United States hates the country and wants to 'wound it in a way that it can never fully recover'.
So I will ask one more time. Why do you think President Obama hates America? Either answer the question or admit that you are full of crap and just trolling.

Nothing but a diversion and a distraction.

Why can't YOU answer how spending our way out of this when we already are running a current budget deficit of 1.2 Trillion is going to make the impact he claims it will.

You freaked out over my bringing it up. So I guess you have the answer. What is it?

 

[CentralCaliBike]

Don't know much about the man or his politics, but from a european point of view, Obama is the best that's happened to america for international pr since WWII...

Seems like a generalization - I know they are necessary but I seriously doubt that is the case for all Europeans.

 

[CentralCaliBike]

Your point of view is shared by everybody I know that lives in Europe and Africa. The health care crisis/issue has polarized lots of different sub-sects of the US population. Basic fear of the unknown. Many have voiced here on the form that medical care for every person is wrong and some grand socialist agenda that will bring America back instead of forward. As a racer I received medical care in 3 countries in Europe and spent less than a suit of clothes on all of it,including prescribed medicines . Obama has taken on the American corprate greed machine on too many different fronts and is finding trying to change the direction of a river is impossible

I believe that you are comfortable with the European system but it is really not able to provide everything for everyone. I have had a lot of European friends and noticed that the younger generation was very happy with the health care, the older generation often was not as impressed (I believe that is related to a higher need and lower confidence).

Here is an interesting link that talks about the complexities of the European system pointing out some of the problems it has and is facing: http://www.heritage.org/Research/HealthCare/HL711.cfm

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Seems like a generalization - I know they are necessary but I seriously doubt that is the case for all Europeans.

Ofcourse a generalization, that's always the case when you say something about 500 million people

But I really believe this is the general feeling in (West)Europe about this president

 

[Hugh Januss]

Nothing but a diversion and a distraction.

Why can't YOU answer how spending our way out of this when we already are running a current budget deficit of 1.2 Trillion is going to make the impact he claims it will.

You freaked out over my bringing it up. So I guess you have the answer. What is it?

I don't think any of us here have "the answer". The best "economics minds" in the country got us into this mess and it will take a long time to get out.
I responded the way I did to your idiotic statement that Obama " hates America and wants to bring it down" because it is absolute BS on the same order as claiming that Bush helped plan 9-11.
I'm sure that there are left wing crackpots who believe that, just as there are right wing crackpots who believe what you are shoveling, but right now with the problems we have as a country the less noise we get from either the better off we are.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I believe that you are comfortable with the European system but it is really not able to provide everything for everyone. I have had a lot of European friends and noticed that the younger generation was very happy with the health care, the older generation often was not as impressed (I believe that is related to a higher need and lower confidence).

Here is an interesting link that talks about the complexities of the European system pointing out some of the problems it has and is facing: http://www.heritage.org/Research/HealthCare/HL711.cfm

So if a system is a lot better than what we have now we still shouldn't think about adopting it because it isn't "perfect"?

 

[CentralCaliBike]

So if a system is a lot better than what we have now we still shouldn't think about adopting it because it isn't "perfect"?

I would prefer the market over a government plan based on my experience of having to pay four times as much for insurance through my county plan than getting a Blue Cross PPO privately. However, I do believe, if we end up with a government run insurance, the insurance companies are in large part to blame. The economy and business in general do not have the rates of inflation that the insurance companies have been enforcing upon group plans over the past 20 years.

I do think that it might be better for the government to encourage more insurance options to combat the monopolies that currently exist.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I would prefer the market over a government plan based on my experience of having to pay four times as much for insurance through my county plan than getting a Blue Cross PPO privately. However, I do believe, if we end up with a government run insurance, the insurance companies are in large part to blame. The economy and business in general do not have the rates of inflation that the insurance companies have been enforcing upon group plans over the past 20 years.

I do think that it might be better for the government to encourage more insurance options to combat the monopolies that currently exist.

Hey that's just "the market". If you can get away with charging more for a service, you go for it. That is why police, fire, health care, military and the IRS should not be free market for profit organizations.

 

[CentralCaliBike]

Hey that's just "the market". If you can get away with charging more for a service, you go for it. That is why police, fire, health care, military and the IRS should not be free market for profit organizations.

The market will always work itself towards monopoly - that is human nature - however, with more competition I believe that the premiums would drop.

When you ask the government to pay, you are likely to find the costs actually increase, the service is likely to decrease (fine for basic health problems but not so much for complicated high cost issues), especially since the number of tax payers is also decreasing.

 

[CentralCaliBike]

Who says they want nuclear weapons? The same paranoid crazies who said that Iraq had WMDs? Maybe the same group of liars who said that Iraq could attack Britain with WMDs in forty-five minutes?

I saw an interesting article in the news today; apparently the London Times is in possession of documents that confirm Iran's nuclear weapons plan - perhaps they are paranoid crazies at the Times, perhaps not: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6955351.ece

I am still not in favor of their possession of nuclear weapons. Seems like the current administration is going to have to start looking at ways to deal with this situation and back track off of the attempts at rationale discussion.

 

[titan_90]

When you ask the government to pay, you are likely to find the costs actually increase, the service is likely to decrease (fine for basic health problems but not so much for complicated high cost issues), especially since the number of tax payers is also decreasing.

The Europeans have done this very successfully they pay far less, cover everyone and have higher quality care. So why do you not think that the USA could have a successful government run health care system?

 

[CentralCaliBike]

The Europeans have done this very successfully they pay far less, cover everyone and have higher quality care. So why do you not think that the USA could have a successful government run health care system?

I understand that it depends - having some friends from England in the past, I did not hear a glowing report about that health care system. In fact, I have never heard that the European system has a higher quality of care (most of the people I have talked with rarely went to the doctor). I am aware that people from Europe often find their way to the United States for specialized treatment - or at least I have read about it a few times in the news.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

The biggest problem with social health care is that it are the richest who use it the most. So it misses some of it's original intention.
But that still beats private insurance or so...

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

In fact, I have never heard that the European system has a higher quality of care (most of the people I have talked with rarely went to the doctor). I am aware that people from Europe often find their way to the United States for specialized treatment - or at least I have read about it a few times in the news.

The best of the best doctors might not work in Europe (i have no idea), but that's not what is important. It is the basic level that is higher in europe, the level that reaches the most people.

 

[titan_90]

I understand that it depends - having some friends from England in the past, I did not hear a glowing report about that health care system. In fact, I have never heard that the European system has a higher quality of care (most of the people I have talked with rarely went to the doctor). I am aware that people from Europe often find their way to the United States for specialized treatment - or at least I have read about it a few times in the news.

Where have you been? The USA is ranked 37th in the world for our heath care system France is ranked #1.

From the WHO:
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

But you still didn't answer my question. So why do you not think that the USA could have a successful government run health care system?

 

[CentralCaliBike]

But you still didn't answer my question. So why do you not think that the USA could have a successful government run health care system?

I think the articles linked below articulate my concerns over the governments ability to run and insurance program.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/199167

And this is a problem the government has known for decades and yet has no plan in place to deal with the problem (the link below was an article written in 1976):

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,918028-1,00.html

 

[Hugh Januss]

The market will always work itself towards monopoly - that is human nature - however, with more competition I believe that the premiums would drop.

When you ask the government to pay, you are likely to find the costs actually increase, the service is likely to decrease (fine for basic health problems but not so much for complicated high cost issues), especially since the number of tax payers is also decreasing.

Why stop at health care then? Why not privatize police and firefighters some we don't waste money protecting people who can't afford it.
The "competition" should make costs go down there as well then.

 

[CentralCaliBike]

Why stop at health care then? Why not privatize police and firefighters some we don't waste money protecting people who can't afford it.
The "competition" should make costs go down there as well then.

I figure that I could make a lot more financially if prosecutions were privatized myself based on volume and results ( ), however, I believe that basic security has been the moving force of government from the beginning.

 

[fatandfast]

The Europeans have done this very successfully they pay far less, cover everyone and have higher quality care. So why do you not think that the USA could have a successful government run health care system?

No mater how many times the US gets ranked 30 something on a list, it still won't matter. Americans twist it around in their mind that we have the best of everything even if we don't. As some of our WWII policies fray with time we won't let go because there are still enough people that know nothing better. There are a huge % of the power base that can't turn on a computer,need cell phones with big numbers and don't question anything the government puts in front of them.People have been getting their health care bought through their employer since the mid/late 40's. They have never had to find another way. People who started and finished at one job in one town are still alive,and in office. The rest of the economy that has bought and sold homes,switched jobs 10 times and cities they live in a half dozen times,and will possibly switch careers 5 times before retirement will have to wait for the greatest generation to die. As long as a measurable % of US citizens think it's unpatriotic/un_American to get health care for everybody we won't get health care for everybody. I was recently with an older family friend that told me there was very few places to eat in his neighborhood, I asked if he was kidding,top rated Indian,Sushi,Thai,Vegan,French and on and on he said he only likes "American food". He is 79 and looks like he can live another 40 years,thats when I think we will get everybody covered.

 

[Hugh Januss]

No mater how many times the US gets ranked 30 something on a list, it still won't matter. Americans twist it around in their mind that we have the best of everything even if we don't. As some of our WWII policies fray with time we won't let go because there are still enough people that know nothing better. There are a huge % of the power base that can't turn on a computer,need cell phones with big numbers and don't question anything the government puts in front of them.People have been getting their health care bought through their employer since the mid/late 40's. They have never had to find another way. People who started and finished at one job in one town are still alive,and in office. The rest of the economy that has bought and sold homes,switched jobs 10 times and cities they live in a half dozen times,and will possibly switch careers 5 times before retirement will have to wait for the greatest generation to die. As long as a measurable % of US citizens think it's unpatriotic/un_American to get health care for everybody we won't get health care for everybody. I was recently with an older family friend that told me there was very few places to eat in his neighborhood, I asked if he was kidding,top rated Indian,Sushi,Thai,Vegan,French and on and on he said he only likes "American food". He is 79 and looks like he can live another 40 years,thats when I think we will get everybody covered.

Off topic but what is American food anyway?
I guess that would include maise, venison, buffalo, squashes and pemmican, whatever that is.

 

[fatandfast]

Off topic but what is American food anyway?
I guess that would include maise, venison, buffalo, squashes and pemmican, whatever that is.

I think he is talking about steak and potato, meat loaf kind of stuff

 

[CentralCaliBike]

Off topic but what is American food anyway?

According to a friend of mine from Cypress it is hamburgers, milk shakes, waffles, and pizza.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

I think he is talking about steak and potato, meat loaf kind of stuff

everybody knows america invented the cow.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

According to a friend of mine from Cypress it is hamburgers, milk shakes, waffles, and pizza.

Hamburgers->German
Waffles->Belgian
Pizza->Italian
Don't know about the shakes though...