World Politics

[blutto]

....don't know how to break it to you but the "I was just following orders" dodge just don't cut it ( especially when you've been given the job to lead the parade and logging all that precious experience in the process, read you can't be half pregnant if you get my drift.. )....hasn't since Nuremburg....you do know about that Nuremburg shindig doesn't you ?.....

....and didn't they execute some folks for waterboarding prisoners there....or was that a different shindig?...they probably didn't have that special exceptional caterer ....

Cheers

....and as for that "she was fed a line" garbage, all she had to do is open her damn eyes....or put another way if those are the limits of her ability to see what is in front of her she should not be running for president because she is incompetent (especially given the fact that she should have by that time known her way around Washington )....Il Douche may be a creep and may have said a lot of really breathtakingly stupid things but he is bang on about millions dying on her watch....

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re:

....don't know how to break it to you but the "I was just following orders" dodge just don't cut it ( especially when you've been given the job to lead the parade and logging all that precious experience in the process, read you can't be half pregnant if you get my drift.. )....hasn't since Nuremburg....you do know about that Nuremburg shindig doesn't you ?.....

....and didn't they execute some folks for waterboarding prisoners there....or was that a different shindig?...they probably didn't have that special exceptional caterer ....

Cheers

....and as for that "she was fed a line" garbage, all she had to do is open her damn eyes....or put another way if those are the limits of her ability to see what is in front of her she should not be running for president because she is incompetent (especially given the fact that she should have by that time known her way around Washington )....Il Douche may be a creep and may have said a lot of really breathtakingly stupid things but he is bang on about millions dying on her watch....

Not her 'watch', president's watch. I think cuz she is running for POTUS, and she was SecState, you go on about watches and civilians dying. You really have a strange idea of what and how the SecState does or can do.

If you were talking about SecDef, it would have a lot more credibility. SecState, the 2nd place 'diplomat', not the war fighter...civics 101...

Il dumass is FOS, as he is on all things.

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

....don't know how to break it to you but the "I was just following orders" dodge just don't cut it ( especially when you've been given the job to lead the parade and logging all that precious experience in the process, read you can't be half pregnant if you get my drift.. )....hasn't since Nuremburg....you do know about that Nuremburg shindig doesn't you ?.....

....and didn't they execute some folks for waterboarding prisoners there....or was that a different shindig?...they probably didn't have that special exceptional caterer ....

Cheers

....and as for that "she was fed a line" garbage, all she had to do is open her damn eyes....or put another way if those are the limits of her ability to see what is in front of her she should not be running for president because she is incompetent (especially given the fact that she should have by that time known her way around Washington )....Il Douche may be a creep and may have said a lot of really breathtakingly stupid things but he is bang on about millions dying on her watch....

Not her 'watch', president's watch. I think cuz she is running for POTUS, and she was SecState, you go on about watches and civilians dying. You really have a strange idea of what and how the SecState does or can do.

If you were talking about SecDef, it would have a lot more credibility. SecState, the 2nd place 'diplomat', not the war fighter...civics 101...

Il dumass is FOS, as he is on all things.

....so in fact you don't have any clue about Nuremburg...that's cool...

Cheers

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

...
yep, not only dumb, but very unfortunately, in contradiction of the facts the barbarians sought to achieve...look at france. the democracy for all intents and purposes has been suspended... i dont really object the measure, but can't help to notice it is not exactly a symptom of the thriving western civilization.

then again, the spirit of the declarations is right. it just has to go beyond, far beyond the feel-good statements.

agreed. well said. Indeed, the discussion should go well beyond those superficial cliches.

...
Or rather hypocrite as ever. This Western civilization values may as well be destroyed for me. They soon will. I am in Brussels. I regularly take the metro. From home to get downtown, I take the metro and can't get around Maelbeek. I often passed by it a few years ago in rush hours. Fortunately I no longer work downtown. Two lines pass by Maelbeek from outskirts to town. Mine is a line with rather old trains and the other always has modern trains. It's an old train that was hit (though it's unclear whether the train went from outskirt to town but I'm pretty sure it did). I could've been there but sorry for those who hate me, it'll be for another time...

My ideas haven't changed since the attacks. I still have Muslim friends who "fundamentally" believe in their set of values. I still don't feel any hatred towards them. Rather the self-proclaimed "guarantors of civilization" should rather reflect on their responsabilities in the chaos that they created. For what I've been through yesterday (check if family is okay, reassuring the mother, etc.) is what the ordinary citizens of Benghazi went through 4 years ago after the NATO bombing. Those people were ordinary civilians, as innocent as the people in Zaventem & Maelbeek. Same for the victims of the "Civilisation"'s drones in Afghanistan and Pakistan. We are hated in those areas and by people who have good reasons to. I have long accepted that I were in the Lion's den. I've long accepted that we could not waged wars overseas on "savage" countries without having blows ourselves. But it's the "Civilization" that invented war methods involving the mass killing of civilians and not the "other" world. I can go all the way back to Dresden (and other bombings in Europe during WWII), Hiroshima, Agent Orange & Napalm in South East Asia, Depleted Uranium in the Iraq and Yugoslavia, etc. Now it's boomeranged against us but who stroke first? Which moral lessons are we entitled to teach the whole world? I know the reaction that this comment would trigger: "culture of excuse", "self-denigration", "apologies". Be it, then! I have a clear conscience. My government do not protect me from terrorism and I have no reason to "stand unite" against that terrorism. I don't believe them. Among the local public services, they do their jobs but in a high up position, they are just irresponsible. I've lost trust in them.

By the way all the show of insincere support to the Belgian people (usually coming from openly assumed Islamophobes) make me vomit. For those whose care is sincere, it's appreciated. But if you were true to yourself you'd admit that you wouldn't bother much until it really happens close to you. Stop saying "it's horrible", blabla..

some very good points.

indeed, western society and journalism still seems incapable of calling out western military activity in muslim countries. There's a coherent well-known name for that military activity: "state terrorism", but the press and politicians pretend it doesn't exist and refuse to put it on the discussion table, properly define it, and analyse to what extent it triggers/invokes radical muslim terrorism. It's hypocrite indeed.

And how can we claim "freedom" to be a western value when meanwhile we support Israel's settlement of Palestinian territory, or when we bomb innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan.

p.s. Where I'm from, the Netherlands, everybody I know has muslim buddies in some form, even if only (like myself) to play soccer with on Sunday.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Echoes: why go back to Benghazi 4 years ago? This is daily/weekly routine for the people in Syria, Iraq, Afhanistan (and here I am not talking about the 'trial by drone' but about terrorist attacks just like the one in Brussels)

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

....don't know how to break it to you but the "I was just following orders" dodge just don't cut it ( especially when you've been given the job to lead the parade and logging all that precious experience in the process, read you can't be half pregnant if you get my drift.. )....hasn't since Nuremburg....you do know about that Nuremburg shindig doesn't you ?.....

....and didn't they execute some folks for waterboarding prisoners there....or was that a different shindig?...they probably didn't have that special exceptional caterer ....

Cheers

....and as for that "she was fed a line" garbage, all she had to do is open her damn eyes....or put another way if those are the limits of her ability to see what is in front of her she should not be running for president because she is incompetent (especially given the fact that she should have by that time known her way around Washington )....Il Douche may be a creep and may have said a lot of really breathtakingly stupid things but he is bang on about millions dying on her watch....

Not her 'watch', president's watch. I think cuz she is running for POTUS, and she was SecState, you go on about watches and civilians dying. You really have a strange idea of what and how the SecState does or can do.

If you were talking about SecDef, it would have a lot more credibility. SecState, the 2nd place 'diplomat', not the war fighter...civics 101...

Il dumass is FOS, as he is on all things.

....so in fact you don't have any clue about Nuremburg...that's cool...

Cheers

Lost, tapping out Blutto. Nuremberg..BTW

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

....don't know how to break it to you but the "I was just following orders" dodge just don't cut it ( especially when you've been given the job to lead the parade and logging all that precious experience in the process, read you can't be half pregnant if you get my drift.. )....hasn't since Nuremburg....you do know about that Nuremburg shindig doesn't you ?.....

....and didn't they execute some folks for waterboarding prisoners there....or was that a different shindig?...they probably didn't have that special exceptional caterer ....

Cheers

....and as for that "she was fed a line" garbage, all she had to do is open her damn eyes....or put another way if those are the limits of her ability to see what is in front of her she should not be running for president because she is incompetent (especially given the fact that she should have by that time known her way around Washington )....Il Douche may be a creep and may have said a lot of really breathtakingly stupid things but he is bang on about millions dying on her watch....

Not her 'watch', president's watch. I think cuz she is running for POTUS, and she was SecState, you go on about watches and civilians dying. You really have a strange idea of what and how the SecState does or can do.

If you were talking about SecDef, it would have a lot more credibility. SecState, the 2nd place 'diplomat', not the war fighter...civics 101...

Il dumass is FOS, as he is on all things.

....so in fact you don't have any clue about Nuremburg...that's cool...

Cheers

Lost, tapping out Blutto. Nuremberg..BTW

...you might have fun with this ( or maybe not....)....and btw not endorsing this but never-the-less its interesting if only for the fact its not from the usual suspects ( MSM division )....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOk1Hp08YDU

Cheers

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

....don't know how to break it to you but the "I was just following orders" dodge just don't cut it ( especially when you've been given the job to lead the parade and logging all that precious experience in the process, read you can't be half pregnant if you get my drift.. )....hasn't since Nuremburg....you do know about that Nuremburg shindig doesn't you ?.....

....and didn't they execute some folks for waterboarding prisoners there....or was that a different shindig?...they probably didn't have that special exceptional caterer ....

Cheers

....and as for that "she was fed a line" garbage, all she had to do is open her damn eyes....or put another way if those are the limits of her ability to see what is in front of her she should not be running for president because she is incompetent (especially given the fact that she should have by that time known her way around Washington )....Il Douche may be a creep and may have said a lot of really breathtakingly stupid things but he is bang on about millions dying on her watch....

Not her 'watch', president's watch. I think cuz she is running for POTUS, and she was SecState, you go on about watches and civilians dying. You really have a strange idea of what and how the SecState does or can do.

If you were talking about SecDef, it would have a lot more credibility. SecState, the 2nd place 'diplomat', not the war fighter...civics 101...

Il dumass is FOS, as he is on all things.

....so in fact you don't have any clue about Nuremburg...that's cool...

Cheers

Lost, tapping out Blutto. Nuremberg..BTW

...you might have fun with this ( or maybe not....)....and btw not endorsing this but never-the-less its interesting if only for the fact its not from the usual suspects ( MSM division )....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOk1Hp08YDU

Cheers

Trump non interventionist? "I'm gonna bomb the sh!te outta ISIS..
Pailin-'let the generals do their job and kick isis' ass' on herr dump's stage. Plus trade wars with all non white nations(Asian, Mexican specifically, because he has to appeal to his skinhead base)..

Pundits...the only real poll is on November 9th..

 

[blutto]

....point taken...but there is the following from a fairly respected source....

...the title....

Donald Trump Could Be the Military-Industrial Complex’s Worst Nightmare

The Republican front-runner is against nation building. Imagine that.

http://www.thenation.com/article/donald-trump-could-be-the-military-industrial-complexs-worst-nightmare/

Cheers

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re:

....point taken...but there is the following from a fairly respected source....

...the title....

Donald Trump Could Be the Military-Industrial Complex’s Worst Nightmare

The Republican front-runner is against nation building. Imagine that.

http://www.thenation.com/article/donald-trump-could-be-the-military-industrial-complexs-worst-nightmare/

Cheers

One thing Clinton is, she recognizes the US's lack of interest in another land war in the middle east. That guy with Ron Paul stickers says 90% chance of Clinton going to war..don't believe it. The kaiser might but not Clinton. Some leader somewhere might say something bad about the furer's hair and he may just attack them then and there. But he isn't going to win the general. herr trump has insulted way too many demographics..he doesn't have enough angry, white, un or under educated white males to make up for that.

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

....point taken...but there is the following from a fairly respected source....

...the title....

Donald Trump Could Be the Military-Industrial Complex’s Worst Nightmare

The Republican front-runner is against nation building. Imagine that.

http://www.thenation.com/article/donald-trump-could-be-the-military-industrial-complexs-worst-nightmare/

Cheers

One thing Clinton is, she recognizes the US's lack of interest in another land war in the middle east. That guy with Ron Paul stickers says 90% chance of Clinton going to war..don't believe it. The kaiser might but not Clinton. Some leader somewhere might say something bad about the furer's hair and he may just attack them then and there. But he isn't going to win the general. herr trump has insulted way too many demographics..he doesn't have enough angry, white, un or under educated white males to make up for that.

....to the bolded ....yeah good point....real good point ( read, so your argument has devolved to that...cool, very cool...)

.....and here is another point to consider when you're playing the game of demographics....how many people on the leftish side of the aisle has HRC insulted with the policies that she is associated with ( and how many more will she insult with the tactics she has used in the primaries.....as in, not seeing her primary performance as much of a draw for the Sanders crowd in fact quite the opposite...)....and then factor in what may well be the death of the vote for the lesser of two evils gambit which I get a feeling is well past its due date ( and that btw is the only legitimate card HRC may be able to play because she really doesn't have much else to offer.. )....

....so it could well boil down to a very small turnout on election day....and in those situations the GOP generally do well, because their base will vote for a ham sandwich.....even one with a weird hair condiment....

Cheers

....as for that 90% thingee, I think he was hedging his call, the resume projects into the 110% range....

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Re: Re:

....point taken...but there is the following from a fairly respected source....

...the title....

Donald Trump Could Be the Military-Industrial Complex’s Worst Nightmare

The Republican front-runner is against nation building. Imagine that.

http://www.thenation.com/article/donald-trump-could-be-the-military-industrial-complexs-worst-nightmare/

Cheers

One thing Clinton is, she recognizes the US's lack of interest in another land war in the middle east. That guy with Ron Paul stickers says 90% chance of Clinton going to war..don't believe it. The kaiser might but not Clinton. Some leader somewhere might say something bad about the furer's hair and he may just attack them then and there. But he isn't going to win the general. herr trump has insulted way too many demographics..he doesn't have enough angry, white, un or under educated white males to make up for that.

....to the bolded ....yeah good point....real good point ( read, so your argument has devolved to that...cool, very cool...)

.....and here is another point to consider when you're playing the game of demographics....how many people on the leftish side of the aisle has HRC insulted with the policies that she is associated with ( and how many more will she insult with the tactics she has used in the primaries.....as in, not seeing her primary performance as much of a draw for the Sanders crowd in fact quite the opposite...)....and then factor in what may well be the death of the vote for the lesser of two evils gambit which I get a feeling is well past its due date ( and that btw is the only legitimate card HRC may be able to play because she really doesn't have much else to offer.. )....

....so it could well boil down to a very small turnout on election day....and in those situations the GOP generally do well, because their base will vote for a ham sandwich.....even one with a weird hair condiment....

Cheers

....as for that 90% thingee, I think he was hedging his call, the resume projects into the 110% range....

Where? To Iraq/Syria to fight ISIL? Not a chance. Ukraine? Nope...

Even if the turnout is small(and if derr furer is nominated it won't be, on the dem side), he still needs some of the women/African Americans/Latino/Asian/disabled/Veteren/Muslim vote. He gets almost zero of those. Add big boy GOP either actively anti-endorsing the Kaiser or just ignoring him...it'll be a walkover for HRC.

With a dozen GOP candidates, his % was about 35%, with 3 it's about 42%...6 out of 10 don't just not support him but dispize him.

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

....point taken...but there is the following from a fairly respected source....

...the title....

Donald Trump Could Be the Military-Industrial Complex’s Worst Nightmare

The Republican front-runner is against nation building. Imagine that.

http://www.thenation.com/article/donald-trump-could-be-the-military-industrial-complexs-worst-nightmare/

Cheers

One thing Clinton is, she recognizes the US's lack of interest in another land war in the middle east. That guy with Ron Paul stickers says 90% chance of Clinton going to war..don't believe it. The kaiser might but not Clinton. Some leader somewhere might say something bad about the furer's hair and he may just attack them then and there. But he isn't going to win the general. herr trump has insulted way too many demographics..he doesn't have enough angry, white, un or under educated white males to make up for that.

....to the bolded ....yeah good point....real good point ( read, so your argument has devolved to that...cool, very cool...)

.....and here is another point to consider when you're playing the game of demographics....how many people on the leftish side of the aisle has HRC insulted with the policies that she is associated with ( and how many more will she insult with the tactics she has used in the primaries.....as in, not seeing her primary performance as much of a draw for the Sanders crowd in fact quite the opposite...)....and then factor in what may well be the death of the vote for the lesser of two evils gambit which I get a feeling is well past its due date ( and that btw is the only legitimate card HRC may be able to play because she really doesn't have much else to offer.. )....

....so it could well boil down to a very small turnout on election day....and in those situations the GOP generally do well, because their base will vote for a ham sandwich.....even one with a weird hair condiment....

Cheers

....as for that 90% thingee, I think he was hedging his call, the resume projects into the 110% range....

Where? To Iraq/Syria to fight ISIL? Not a chance. Ukraine? Nope...

Even if the turnout is small(and if derr furer is nominated it won't be, on the dem side), he still needs some of the women/African Americans/Latino/Asian/disabled/Veteren/Muslim vote. He gets almost zero of those. Add big boy GOP either actively anti-endorsing the Kaiser or just ignoring him...it'll be a walkover for HRC.

With a dozen GOP candidates, his % was about 35%, with 3 it's about 42%...6 out of 10 don't just not support him but dispize him.

...yeah know if this election cycle were just a hair more, uhhh, normal, you could say that with some confidence ( and heck I'd even agree with you...)....but there is something in the air here ( apart from the simply awful slate of "official" candidates ) that makes this one a bit weird...we had some serious weird here in Soviet Canuckistan during our recent election and I'm sort of sensing some of the same in the US today....the lesser evil argument wasn't working, there was a very significant influx of new voters, and there was real frustration with the status quo...the same things in the US would really shake up the old demographic way of doing elections....

....gonna be interesting real interesting...could well become Trump / GoldmanSachs ....though I think the best one would be Trump / Sanders....but there are big institutional road blocks in the way of both of those....

Cheers

 

[del1962]

That Serbian poet with the hair finally gets 40 years, should have been life, but why did it take 8 years to bring him to justice

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Re:

That Serbian poet with the hair finally gets 40 years, should have been life, but why did it take 8 years to bring him to justice

He'll be dead in 40 years, so it's as good as a life sentence.

 

[python]

if true, the following represents some of the most curious if not sensational and exceptionally candid comments by a major middle east player and a monarch...

according to http://www.middleeasteye.net (a portal i repeatedly found well-informed, reliable and largely impartial) the midget king of a tiny kingdom of jordan talked big smack in a secret meeting with the us congress member on 11 january. the portal got a hold of the record of the meeting. below are some select quotes and the links to the articles, if anyone wsihes to read further..

The king said Europe’s biggest refugee crisis was not an accident, and neither was the presence of terrorists among them: “The fact that terrorists are going to Europe is part of Turkish policy and Turkey keeps on getting a slap on the hand, but they are let off the hook.”
Asked by one of the congressmen present whether the Islamic State group was exporting oil to Turkey, Abdullah replied: ”Absolutely”.

Abdullah said that Erdogan believed in a “radical Islamic solution to the region".He repeated: "Turkey sought a religious solution to Syria, while we are looking at moderate elements in the south and Jordan pushed for a third option that would not allow a religious option.”
The king presented Turkey as a part of a strategic challenge to the world. "We keep being forced to tackle tactical problems against ISIL but not the strategic issue. We forget the issue [of] the Turks who are not with us on this strategically." He claimed that Turkey had not only supported religious groups in Syria, and letting foreign fighters in, but had also been helping Islamist militias in Libya and Somalia. Abdullah claimed that "radicalisation was being manufactured in Turkey" and asked the US senators why the Turks were training the Somali army.

“Turkey unleashed the refugees onto Europe.”

the midget king had also told the us mps that he waved his little finger at the dreadful vlad-the terrible too:

"We saw the Russians fly down, but they were met with Israeli and Jordanian F-16s, both together in Israeli and Jordanian airspace. The Russians were shocked and understood they cannot mess with us." Abdullah said the incident triggered trilateral de-confliction moves. The Jordanians got in touch with the Russians and Putin sent an envoy to Amman.

the last statement by the king rhymes very well with my repeatedly expressed (and posted here) suspicion that the several russian violations of the turkish airspace were aimed at inciting turkey to negotiate a DE-confliction agreement similar to the one they signed with israel, jordan and america.

the king also talked smack about iran and sweet, sweat about the saudis.

frankly, some of what he said sounds counter-intuitive to me, except his anti-turkish words...

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/jordanian-and-israeli-jets-confronted-russian-fighters-near-syria-border-abdullah-1550855799

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/jordanian-special-forces-poised-enter-syria-2033698172

 

[blutto]

Re:

if true, the following represents some of the most curious if not sensational and exceptionally candid comments by a major middle east player and a monarch...

according to http://www.middleeasteye.net (a portal i repeatedly found well-informed, reliable and largely impartial) the midget king of a tiny kingdom of jordan talked big smack in a secret meeting with the us congress member on 11 january. the portal got a hold of the record of the meeting. below are some select quotes and the links to the articles, if anyone wsihes to read further..

The king said Europe’s biggest refugee crisis was not an accident, and neither was the presence of terrorists among them: “The fact that terrorists are going to Europe is part of Turkish policy and Turkey keeps on getting a slap on the hand, but they are let off the hook.”
Asked by one of the congressmen present whether the Islamic State group was exporting oil to Turkey, Abdullah replied: ”Absolutely”.

Abdullah said that Erdogan believed in a “radical Islamic solution to the region".He repeated: "Turkey sought a religious solution to Syria, while we are looking at moderate elements in the south and Jordan pushed for a third option that would not allow a religious option.”
The king presented Turkey as a part of a strategic challenge to the world. "We keep being forced to tackle tactical problems against ISIL but not the strategic issue. We forget the issue [of] the Turks who are not with us on this strategically." He claimed that Turkey had not only supported religious groups in Syria, and letting foreign fighters in, but had also been helping Islamist militias in Libya and Somalia. Abdullah claimed that "radicalisation was being manufactured in Turkey" and asked the US senators why the Turks were training the Somali army.

“Turkey unleashed the refugees onto Europe.”

the midget king had also told the us mps that he waved his little finger at the dreadful vlad-the terrible too:

"We saw the Russians fly down, but they were met with Israeli and Jordanian F-16s, both together in Israeli and Jordanian airspace. The Russians were shocked and understood they cannot mess with us." Abdullah said the incident triggered trilateral de-confliction moves. The Jordanians got in touch with the Russians and Putin sent an envoy to Amman.

the last statement by the king rhymes very well with my repeatedly expressed (and posted here) suspicion that the several russian violations of the turkish airspace were aimed at inciting turkey to negotiate a DE-confliction agreement similar to the one they signed with israel, jordan and america.

the king also talked smack about iran and sweet, sweat about the saudis.

frankly, some of what he said sounds counter-intuitive to me, except his anti-turkish words...

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/jordanian-and-israeli-jets-confronted-russian-fighters-near-syria-border-abdullah-1550855799

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/jordanian-special-forces-poised-enter-syria-2033698172

....thought I had posted the following earlier but can't immediately find it so if this is a double sorry....anyways it speaks to the Turkey issue along the lines stated above....long read but covers a lot of ground...

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/03/thierry-meyssan/europe-chooses-suicide/

Cheers

 

[Maxiton]

Re: Re:

the political reactions are dumb as ever.
"we will win the war against the terrorists"
"they will not succeed in destroying the values of western civilization"
etc.

Or rather hypocrite as ever. This Western civilization values may as well be destroyed for me. They soon will. I am in Brussels. I regularly take the metro. From home to get downtown, I take the metro and can't get around Maelbeek. I often passed by it a few years ago in rush hours. Fortunately I no longer work downtown. Two lines pass by Maelbeek from outskirts to town. Mine is a line with rather old trains and the other always has modern trains. It's an old train that was hit (though it's unclear whether the train went from outskirt to town but I'm pretty sure it did). I could've been there but sorry for those who hate me, it'll be for another time...

My ideas haven't changed since the attacks. I still have Muslim friends who "fundamentally" believe in their set of values. I still don't feel any hatred towards them. Rather the self-proclaimed "guarantors of civilization" should rather reflect on their responsabilities in the chaos that they created. For what I've been through yesterday (check if family is okay, reassuring the mother, etc.) is what the ordinary citizens of Benghazi went through 4 years ago after the NATO bombing. Those people were ordinary civilians, as innocent as the people in Zaventem & Maelbeek. Same for the victims of the "Civilisation"'s drones in Afghanistan and Pakistan. We are hated in those areas and by people who have good reasons to. I have long accepted that I were in the Lion's den. I've long accepted that we could not waged wars overseas on "savage" countries without having blows ourselves. But it's the "Civilization" that invented war methods involving the mass killing of civilians and not the "other" world. I can go all the way back to Dresden (and other bombings in Europe during WWII), Hiroshima, Agent Orange & Napalm in South East Asia, Depleted Uranium in the Iraq and Yugoslavia, etc. Now it's boomeranged against us but who stroke first? Which moral lessons are we entitled to teach the whole world? I know the reaction that this comment would trigger: "culture of excuse", "self-denigration", "apologies". Be it, then! I have a clear conscience. My government do not protect me from terrorism and I have no reason to "stand unite" against that terrorism. I don't believe them. Among the local public services, they do their jobs but in a high up position, they are just irresponsible. I've lost trust in them.

By the way all the show of insincere support to the Belgian people (usually coming from openly assumed Islamophobes) make me vomit. For those whose care is sincere, it's appreciated. But if you were true to yourself you'd admit that you wouldn't bother much until it really happens close to you. Stop saying "it's horrible", blabla..

There is a short, pithy English idiom that encompasses, I think, what you are describing: "The chickens come home to roost." Malcom X used this phrase in referring to the assassination of president Kennedy. And more recently, American professor Ward Churchill used it in describing the 9/11 attacks in the US. This usage to describe acts of terrorism is pernicious, and should in my view be rejected unequivocally.

Seeing terrorism as "blowback" or "the chickens coming home to roost" is a justification for terrorism; any such justification is in some sense an acceptance. Acts of terror against civilian populations are indefensible under all circumstances, and must be rejected. Any lesser position - any acceptance of terrorism whatsoever - is not only fatally compromised ethically, but also places one within a positive feedback loop vis a vis terrorism: it is in this sense only that the "chickens come home to roost".

Additionally, while the use of terror bombing against civilians by mutual state combatants is and should be a crime against humanity; there is a qualitative difference between that on the one hand and use of terror against civilians in non-warring states on the other. The latter is an order of magnitude worse, as it is not contained within a normative context of short duration, and consequently begins to annihilate our humanity in the most profound sense.

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

the political reactions are dumb as ever.
"we will win the war against the terrorists"
"they will not succeed in destroying the values of western civilization"
etc.

Or rather hypocrite as ever. This Western civilization values may as well be destroyed for me. They soon will. I am in Brussels. I regularly take the metro. From home to get downtown, I take the metro and can't get around Maelbeek. I often passed by it a few years ago in rush hours. Fortunately I no longer work downtown. Two lines pass by Maelbeek from outskirts to town. Mine is a line with rather old trains and the other always has modern trains. It's an old train that was hit (though it's unclear whether the train went from outskirt to town but I'm pretty sure it did). I could've been there but sorry for those who hate me, it'll be for another time...

My ideas haven't changed since the attacks. I still have Muslim friends who "fundamentally" believe in their set of values. I still don't feel any hatred towards them. Rather the self-proclaimed "guarantors of civilization" should rather reflect on their responsabilities in the chaos that they created. For what I've been through yesterday (check if family is okay, reassuring the mother, etc.) is what the ordinary citizens of Benghazi went through 4 years ago after the NATO bombing. Those people were ordinary civilians, as innocent as the people in Zaventem & Maelbeek. Same for the victims of the "Civilisation"'s drones in Afghanistan and Pakistan. We are hated in those areas and by people who have good reasons to. I have long accepted that I were in the Lion's den. I've long accepted that we could not waged wars overseas on "savage" countries without having blows ourselves. But it's the "Civilization" that invented war methods involving the mass killing of civilians and not the "other" world. I can go all the way back to Dresden (and other bombings in Europe during WWII), Hiroshima, Agent Orange & Napalm in South East Asia, Depleted Uranium in the Iraq and Yugoslavia, etc. Now it's boomeranged against us but who stroke first? Which moral lessons are we entitled to teach the whole world? I know the reaction that this comment would trigger: "culture of excuse", "self-denigration", "apologies". Be it, then! I have a clear conscience. My government do not protect me from terrorism and I have no reason to "stand unite" against that terrorism. I don't believe them. Among the local public services, they do their jobs but in a high up position, they are just irresponsible. I've lost trust in them.

By the way all the show of insincere support to the Belgian people (usually coming from openly assumed Islamophobes) make me vomit. For those whose care is sincere, it's appreciated. But if you were true to yourself you'd admit that you wouldn't bother much until it really happens close to you. Stop saying "it's horrible", blabla..

There is a short, pithy English idiom that encompasses, I think, what you are describing: "The chickens come home to roost." Malcom X used this phrase in referring to the assassination of president Kennedy. And more recently, American professor Ward Churchill used it in describing the 9/11 attacks in the US. This usage to describe acts of terrorism is pernicious, and should in my view be rejected unequivocally.

Seeing terrorism as "blowback" or "the chickens coming home to roost" is a justification for terrorism; any such justification is in some sense an acceptance. Acts of terror against civilian populations are indefensible under all circumstances, and must be rejected. Any lesser position - any acceptance of terrorism whatsoever - is not only fatally compromised ethically, but also places one within a positive feedback loop vis a vis terrorism: it is in this sense only that the "chickens come home to roost".

Additionally, while the use of terror bombing against civilians by mutual state combatants is and should be a crime against humanity; there is a qualitative difference between that on the one hand and use of terror against civilians in non-warring states on the other. The latter is an order of magnitude worse, as it is not contained within a normative context of short duration, and consequently begins to annihilate our humanity in the most profound sense.

....been trying to work this one out for a few days and not much made sense until I read the Meyssan article that I referred to above....

...I think the chickens thingee only explains this partially ( only because the roost was known ground from which to launch an attack )...but if you run that across who benefits there is no clear answer...this couldn't reasonably be an attack that leads to an Islamic takeover of Europe...this could be a Gladio type attack to extend the surveillance state and strike fear into Europe and have them join in a war against the entire Moslem world ? ( but on whose behalf ?...some out there elements say this is part of the same neocon plan that produced the Iraq/Libya/Afghanistan fiascos...so that is a possibility... )....

....and then there is the other major player in this particular game that is presently being played out in Syria...Turkey....now it may well be being set up as a scapegoat....but it is worth looking at Turkey's potential role in this because it is an entity that can be seen to be able to achieve something substantial in the reasonably near future as a result of the attacks ( see article for details)...first and foremost an attack on someone who has withdrawn support in a situation Turkey wants to win as a means of a simple payback and a warning that more can come ( it was Turkey that after all opened the borders to allow the migrant flood...and has effectively caused a pre-panic situation that the attacks shock value exploited )....

...anyways haven't worked this thru...but Turkey is in the mix...what their final end game is I'm not sure but Erdogan has been acting quite weirdly lately...the election fiasco, the Russian pipeline reversal, the sarin gas mess, the shootdown of the Russian jet, his recent crackdown on internal dissent...maybe he has a plan maybe he realizes that Obama has let him go and out to dry and he is pissed...maybe he has lost his mind....and lest we forget Turkey's long rumoured connection to 9/11 ( along with Pakistan who oddly enough also plays a similar role as minders of known terrorist assets )...

Cheers

 

[Maxiton]

Re: Re:

There is a short, pithy English idiom that encompasses, I think, what you are describing: "The chickens come home to roost." Malcom X used this phrase in referring to the assassination of president Kennedy. And more recently, American professor Ward Churchill used it in describing the 9/11 attacks in the US. This usage to describe acts of terrorism is pernicious, and should in my view be rejected unequivocally.

Seeing terrorism as "blowback" or "the chickens coming home to roost" is a justification for terrorism; any such justification is in some sense an acceptance. Acts of terror against civilian populations are indefensible under all circumstances, and must be rejected. Any lesser position - any acceptance of terrorism whatsoever - is not only fatally compromised ethically, but also places one within a positive feedback loop vis a vis terrorism: it is in this sense only that the "chickens come home to roost".

Additionally, while the use of terror bombing against civilians by mutual state combatants is and should be a crime against humanity; there is a qualitative difference between that on the one hand and use of terror against civilians in non-warring states on the other. The latter is an order of magnitude worse, as it is not contained within a normative context of short duration, and consequently begins to annihilate our humanity in the most profound sense.

Also, I see the point, before someone makes it, that in calling terrorism in Europe "blowback" or "chickens coming home to roost", Echoes is merely calling attention to the positive feedback loop that already exists, rather than endorsing or excusing it. But the point I am making is that we all must refuse to accept this excuse or justification. Our failure to do so puts us inside the loop and thus perpetuates and amplifies the loop. All liberty loving people must maintain the position that no terrorism is acceptable, and no act of terrorism justifies terrorism in response.

 

[aphronesis]

You're right. But rejecting terrorism as a negative is not the same as expressing contempt for media and governmental pieties in times of "crisis" that otherwise ignore (or rationalize) state sponsored terrorism and its (the dominant state's) arrogated monopoly on violence. Recognizing "blowback" for some is not the same as excusing it. Look at Obama's quip; realpolitik in action.

 

[Maxiton]

Re:

You're right. But rejecting terrorism as a negative is not the same as expressing contempt for media and governmental pieties in times of "crisis" that otherwise ignore (or rationalize) state sponsored terrorism and its (the dominant state's) arrogated monopoly on violence. Recognizing "blowback" for some is not the same as excusing it. Look at Obama's quip; realpolitik in action.

You're absolutely right. We must hold media accountable, and also government when we can actually figure out what government is doing.

What was Obama's quip?

 

[aphronesis]

Something to the effect of more Americans die in the bathtub than from terror attacks. Which remains true, but slight bad faith given his oversight of the global exportation of violence and ordinance.

 

[Maxiton]

Re:

Something to the effect of more Americans die in the bathtub than from terror attacks. Which remains true, but slight bad faith given his oversight of the global exportation of violence and ordinance.

I see. Yes, sounds pretty insidious when heard in that light.

 

[rhubroma]

It's important to remember what is useful, not expedient.

Almost all the terrorism is perpetrated from the sons of immigrants from the Maghreb. The fathers conformed to non-acceptance under the circumstantial regime. Having been uprooted from the old colony of provenance, they unstoically molded their rancor on their sons. The sons, under the same conditions, didn't accept the holes in the soul their fathers were willing to put down against their will. Eventually they have found their "identity" among hacks and charlatans and the fatal consequences this presupposes.