World Politics

[BullsFan22]

These two top officials behind major US wars (Iran/Afghanistan and Vietnam/Cambodia/Laos) and regime change (against Allende, Chile) will speak at the first of a new event, The Nobel Peace Prize Forum Oslo, created by the Nobel Institute in Oslo. More here.

The leaders of the two institutions declare that they are proud to have succeeded in getting these two diplomats to Norway – and the media of course will be there. The event is sponsored by the California-based company InCircl – a marketing and mobile payment company.

The university rector is dr. med. and participant at Bilderberg world elite power group in 2011 Ole Petter Ottersen and you can write him at rektor@uio.no

These two experts on warfare and interventionism will – Orwellian style – speak about “The United States and World Peace After The Presidential Election”.


This is the country that, since 1980, has intervened violently in Iran, Libya, Lebanon, Kuwait, Iraq, Somalia, Bosnia, Afghanistan, Sudan, Kosova/Serbia, Yemen, Pakistan, Syria, i.e. 14 Muslim countries. It has some 630 base facilities in 130+ countries. It has its US Special Forces (SOF) in 133 countries.

It has used nuclear weapons without apology and owns the second largest arsenal of nuclear weapons.

The US stands for about 40% of the world’s military expenditures, is the world’s leading arms exporter and has killed more people than anybody else since 1945. It’s the master of (imprecise) drone strikes. It presently supports Saudi Arabia’s bestial war on Yemen and conducts a military build-up in Asia and the Pacific planning, as it seems, for what looks like a future confrontation with China. And not with terribly positive results in its Middle East policies since 1945.

So with all these credentials, please tell us about world peace!

The U.S. should be seen as quite incapable of peace-making – not the least thanks to Dr. Kissinger (now 93) who is associated with major “war crimes, for crimes against humanity, and for offences against common or customary or international law, including conspiracy to commit murder, kidnap, and torture” in places such as Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Timor, and Chile as stated in the classical book about his peace-making by Christopher Hitchens “The Trial of Henry Kissinger”

.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/12/01/orwell-in-oslo-nobel-committee-honors-kissinger-again-and-brzezinski/

Cheers

Why would they apologize about using nuclear weapons ? They saved American lives and shortened the war. That was their only concern and they demilitarized Japan. Hitchens views on the USA seemed to moderate during the last years of his life.

.....well yeah that is the official narrative....and the official narrative had WMD in Iraq too....

Cheers

After what the Americans witnessed on Saipan and Okinawa re the Japanese fighting to the last man plus the damage the Kamikazes were inflicting having on the US fleet it was similar to the the last year of the war in Europe but for different reasons re the high casualty rate. The Russian losses on the way to Berlin were high mainly because of careless tactics while the Pacific war was more about the ideals of the Japanese. Certain Americans in the military expected the mainland invasion to go the same way if it was attempted. There was a a few hundred Kamikazes ready to fly on the day of the Hiroshima bomb blast. Their success rate was not high but when they did get through the damage and casualty rate was serious. Some ships were going straight to the bottom with their entire crew. America never apologized for Vietnam either but then Japan did not apologize for Pearl Harbor or for what happened in Nanking or for the death camps or for the comfort women. I don't remember the Russians apologizing for Katyn or for the atrocities committed while invading Berlin. As for the Germans in WWII it took them a long time to even talk about the war and that was no surprise considering the utter human misery they caused. There are no moral victors in war and apologies may happen between veterans and even friendships, but rarely with politicians or the military.

Well said and the Bataan death march another example of Japanese non apology. But history is blind, some observer's are too. Deaf also.

....so are you implying that the Bataan death march somehow justified a reprisal ? Hiroshima and Nagasaki ?.....and as for some observers being deaf dumb and blind ? yeah hard to argue that point...

Cheers

Don't waste your time arguing with warmongers. There is a reason they are called 'warmongers.' They haven't found a war they didn't like. Remember, the Team America World Police is a bastion of peace.

 

[python]

These two top officials behind major US wars (Iran/Afghanistan and Vietnam/Cambodia/Laos) and regime change (against Allende, Chile) will speak at the first of a new event, The Nobel Peace Prize Forum Oslo, created by the Nobel Institute in Oslo. More here.

The leaders of the two institutions declare that they are proud to have succeeded in getting these two diplomats to Norway – and the media of course will be there. The event is sponsored by the California-based company InCircl – a marketing and mobile payment company.

The university rector is dr. med. and participant at Bilderberg world elite power group in 2011 Ole Petter Ottersen and you can write him at rektor@uio.no

These two experts on warfare and interventionism will – Orwellian style – speak about “The United States and World Peace After The Presidential Election”.


This is the country that, since 1980, has intervened violently in Iran, Libya, Lebanon, Kuwait, Iraq, Somalia, Bosnia, Afghanistan, Sudan, Kosova/Serbia, Yemen, Pakistan, Syria, i.e. 14 Muslim countries. It has some 630 base facilities in 130+ countries. It has its US Special Forces (SOF) in 133 countries.

It has used nuclear weapons without apology and owns the second largest arsenal of nuclear weapons.

The US stands for about 40% of the world’s military expenditures, is the world’s leading arms exporter and has killed more people than anybody else since 1945. It’s the master of (imprecise) drone strikes. It presently supports Saudi Arabia’s bestial war on Yemen and conducts a military build-up in Asia and the Pacific planning, as it seems, for what looks like a future confrontation with China. And not with terribly positive results in its Middle East policies since 1945.

So with all these credentials, please tell us about world peace!

The U.S. should be seen as quite incapable of peace-making – not the least thanks to Dr. Kissinger (now 93) who is associated with major “war crimes, for crimes against humanity, and for offences against common or customary or international law, including conspiracy to commit murder, kidnap, and torture” in places such as Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Timor, and Chile as stated in the classical book about his peace-making by Christopher Hitchens “The Trial of Henry Kissinger”

.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/12/01/orwell-in-oslo-nobel-committee-honors-kissinger-again-and-brzezinski/

Cheers

Why would they apologize about using nuclear weapons ? They saved American lives and shortened the war. That was their only concern and they demilitarized Japan. Hitchens views on the USA seemed to moderate during the last years of his life.

let me ask you 2 questions:
1. do you think the american top war administrators and implementers knew they were incinerating in a horrible act of mass murder hundreds of thousands of absolutely innocent children, women and old folks ?
2. if they did, why the mass murder on the innocents, which by any measure would have been a war crime, why a formal apology for the horrendous deed against the absolutely innocent humans is to much to ask ?

i respect your posting, but the shocking lack of reflection in the quoted post bothers me...

 

[Brullnux]

Good news coming out of Austria, Hofer looks to have been beaten 53-47.

 

[movingtarget]

These two top officials behind major US wars (Iran/Afghanistan and Vietnam/Cambodia/Laos) and regime change (against Allende, Chile) will speak at the first of a new event, The Nobel Peace Prize Forum Oslo, created by the Nobel Institute in Oslo. More here.

The leaders of the two institutions declare that they are proud to have succeeded in getting these two diplomats to Norway – and the media of course will be there. The event is sponsored by the California-based company InCircl – a marketing and mobile payment company.

The university rector is dr. med. and participant at Bilderberg world elite power group in 2011 Ole Petter Ottersen and you can write him at rektor@uio.no

These two experts on warfare and interventionism will – Orwellian style – speak about “The United States and World Peace After The Presidential Election”.


This is the country that, since 1980, has intervened violently in Iran, Libya, Lebanon, Kuwait, Iraq, Somalia, Bosnia, Afghanistan, Sudan, Kosova/Serbia, Yemen, Pakistan, Syria, i.e. 14 Muslim countries. It has some 630 base facilities in 130+ countries. It has its US Special Forces (SOF) in 133 countries.

It has used nuclear weapons without apology and owns the second largest arsenal of nuclear weapons.

The US stands for about 40% of the world’s military expenditures, is the world’s leading arms exporter and has killed more people than anybody else since 1945. It’s the master of (imprecise) drone strikes. It presently supports Saudi Arabia’s bestial war on Yemen and conducts a military build-up in Asia and the Pacific planning, as it seems, for what looks like a future confrontation with China. And not with terribly positive results in its Middle East policies since 1945.

So with all these credentials, please tell us about world peace!

The U.S. should be seen as quite incapable of peace-making – not the least thanks to Dr. Kissinger (now 93) who is associated with major “war crimes, for crimes against humanity, and for offences against common or customary or international law, including conspiracy to commit murder, kidnap, and torture” in places such as Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Timor, and Chile as stated in the classical book about his peace-making by Christopher Hitchens “The Trial of Henry Kissinger”

.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/12/01/orwell-in-oslo-nobel-committee-honors-kissinger-again-and-brzezinski/

Cheers

Why would they apologize about using nuclear weapons ? They saved American lives and shortened the war. That was their only concern and they demilitarized Japan. Hitchens views on the USA seemed to moderate during the last years of his life.

let me ask you 2 questions:
1. do you think the american top war administrators and implementers knew they were incinerating in a horrible act of mass murder hundreds of thousands of absolutely innocent children, women and old folks ?
2. if they did, why the mass murder on the innocents, which by any measure would have been a war crime, why a formal apology for the horrendous deed against the absolutely innocent humans is to much to ask ?

i respect your posting, but the shocking lack of reflection in the quoted post bothers me...

It's not a lack of reflection it's just a realization that governments rarely apologize for wartime atrocities. Even in recent times in Rwanda and Bosnia we saw the same behavior and if people were pressed for a response. The answer was generally the same. Along the lines of "we were at war" or terrible things happen in war. Look what's going on in Syria, are the Americans or Syrians or Russia apologizing for civilian deaths ? Considering the misery caused by the Japanese and Germans in WWII I never expected the USA to apologize although over time there may be many asking them to do so. But I think the pressure from the military and govt will probably stop it happening. The choice of weapon means they knew in advance that many innocents would die but then the Nazis knew the same before the Holocaust. It seems that it was some of the physicists and scientists that were involved in the development of the atomic bomb that were truly sorry. Maybe they thought the bombs would never be used. Einstein never believed they were going to be used and was shocked that they were. One of the pilots committed suicide and the shocking nature of the devastation caused probably did more than anything else to ensure that those events were never repeated.

Luckily during the Cold War, leaders remained level headed and nuclear deterrent relied a lot on the memory of what happened in WWII. Who knows maybe previous atrocities will be addressed in the future but after Fukushima many Japanese don't even want nuclear power stations which is understandable and the older people still have memories of WWII. The word nuclear in Japan has a much deeper cultural impact than it has anywhere else. Maybe Ukraine with Chernobyl has similar feelings even though it's problems were not caused by the military.

 

[blutto]

These two top officials behind major US wars (Iran/Afghanistan and Vietnam/Cambodia/Laos) and regime change (against Allende, Chile) will speak at the first of a new event, The Nobel Peace Prize Forum Oslo, created by the Nobel Institute in Oslo. More here.

The leaders of the two institutions declare that they are proud to have succeeded in getting these two diplomats to Norway – and the media of course will be there. The event is sponsored by the California-based company InCircl – a marketing and mobile payment company.

The university rector is dr. med. and participant at Bilderberg world elite power group in 2011 Ole Petter Ottersen and you can write him at rektor@uio.no

These two experts on warfare and interventionism will – Orwellian style – speak about “The United States and World Peace After The Presidential Election”.


This is the country that, since 1980, has intervened violently in Iran, Libya, Lebanon, Kuwait, Iraq, Somalia, Bosnia, Afghanistan, Sudan, Kosova/Serbia, Yemen, Pakistan, Syria, i.e. 14 Muslim countries. It has some 630 base facilities in 130+ countries. It has its US Special Forces (SOF) in 133 countries.

It has used nuclear weapons without apology and owns the second largest arsenal of nuclear weapons.

The US stands for about 40% of the world’s military expenditures, is the world’s leading arms exporter and has killed more people than anybody else since 1945. It’s the master of (imprecise) drone strikes. It presently supports Saudi Arabia’s bestial war on Yemen and conducts a military build-up in Asia and the Pacific planning, as it seems, for what looks like a future confrontation with China. And not with terribly positive results in its Middle East policies since 1945.

So with all these credentials, please tell us about world peace!

The U.S. should be seen as quite incapable of peace-making – not the least thanks to Dr. Kissinger (now 93) who is associated with major “war crimes, for crimes against humanity, and for offences against common or customary or international law, including conspiracy to commit murder, kidnap, and torture” in places such as Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Timor, and Chile as stated in the classical book about his peace-making by Christopher Hitchens “The Trial of Henry Kissinger”

.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/12/01/orwell-in-oslo-nobel-committee-honors-kissinger-again-and-brzezinski/

Cheers

Why would they apologize about using nuclear weapons ? They saved American lives and shortened the war. That was their only concern and they demilitarized Japan. Hitchens views on the USA seemed to moderate during the last years of his life.

let me ask you 2 questions:
1. do you think the american top war administrators and implementers knew they were incinerating in a horrible act of mass murder hundreds of thousands of absolutely innocent children, women and old folks ?
2. if they did, why the mass murder on the innocents, which by any measure would have been a war crime, why a formal apology for the horrendous deed against the absolutely innocent humans is to much to ask ?

i respect your posting, but the shocking lack of reflection in the quoted post bothers me...

It's not a lack of reflection it's just a realization that governments rarely apologize for wartime atrocities. Even in recent times in Rwanda and Bosnia we saw the same behavior and if people were pressed for a response. The answer was generally the same. Along the lines of "we were at war" or terrible things happen in war. Look what's going on in Syria, are the Americans or Syrians or Russia apologizing for civilian deaths ? Considering the misery caused by the Japanese and Germans in WWII I never expected the USA to apologize although over time there may be many asking them to do so. But I think the pressure from the military and govt will probably stop it happening. The choice of weapon means they knew in advance that many innocents would die but then the Nazis knew the same before the Holocaust. It seems that it was some of the physicists and scientists that were involved in the development of the atomic bomb that were truly sorry. Maybe they thought the bombs would never be used. Einstein never believed they were going to be used and was shocked that they were. One of the pilots committed suicide and the shocking nature of the devastation caused probably did more than anything else to ensure that those events were never repeated.

Luckily during the Cold War, leaders remained level headed and nuclear deterrent relied a lot on the memory of what happened in WWII. Who knows maybe previous atrocities will be addressed in the future but after Fukushima many Japanese don't even want nuclear power stations which is understandable and the older people still have memories of WWII. The word nuclear in Japan has a much deeper cultural impact than it has anywhere else. Maybe Ukraine with Chernobyl has similar feelings even though it's problems were not caused by the military.

....bingo, we have a winner....

Cheers

 

[blutto]

....file under exceptional freedom and apple pie....lest we forget....

For decades, Washington had a habit of using the Central Intelligence Agency to deep-six governments of the people, by the people, and for the people that weren’t to its taste and replacing them with governments of the [take your choice: military junta, shah, autocrat, dictator] across the planet. There was the infamous 1953 CIA- and British-organized coup that toppled the democratic Iranian government of Mohammad Mosadegh and put the Shah (and his secret police, the SAVAK) in power. There was the 1954 CIA coup against the government of Jacobo Arbenz in Guatemala that installed the military dictatorship of Carlos Castillo Armas; there was the CIA’s move to make Ngo Dinh Diem the head of South Vietnam, also in 1954, and the CIA-Belgian plot to assassinate the Congo’s first elected prime minister, Patrice Lumumba, in 1961 that led, in the end, to the military dictatorship of Mobutu Sese Seko; there was the 1964 CIA-backed military coup in Brazil that overthrew elected president Jango Goulart and brought to power a military junta; and, of course, the first 9/11 (September 11, 1973) when the democratically elected socialist president of Chile, Salvador Allende, was overthrown and killed in a U.S.-backed military coup. Well, you get the idea.

In this way, Washington repeatedly worked its will as the leader of what was then called “the Free World.” Although such operations were carried out on the sly, when they were revealed, Americans, proud of their own democratic traditions, generally remained unfazed by what the CIA had done to democracies (and other kinds of governments) abroad in their name. If Washington repeatedly empowered regimes of a sort Americans would have found unacceptable for ourselves, it wasn’t something that most of us spent a whole lot of time fretting about in the context of the Cold War.

http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/176216/tomgram:_engelhardt,_the_most_dangerous_country_on_earth/#more

Cheers

 

[movingtarget]

....file under exceptional freedom and apple pie....lest we forget....

For decades, Washington had a habit of using the Central Intelligence Agency to deep-six governments of the people, by the people, and for the people that weren’t to its taste and replacing them with governments of the [take your choice: military junta, shah, autocrat, dictator] across the planet. There was the infamous 1953 CIA- and British-organized coup that toppled the democratic Iranian government of Mohammad Mosadegh and put the Shah (and his secret police, the SAVAK) in power. There was the 1954 CIA coup against the government of Jacobo Arbenz in Guatemala that installed the military dictatorship of Carlos Castillo Armas; there was the CIA’s move to make Ngo Dinh Diem the head of South Vietnam, also in 1954, and the CIA-Belgian plot to assassinate the Congo’s first elected prime minister, Patrice Lumumba, in 1961 that led, in the end, to the military dictatorship of Mobutu Sese Seko; there was the 1964 CIA-backed military coup in Brazil that overthrew elected president Jango Goulart and brought to power a military junta; and, of course, the first 9/11 (September 11, 1973) when the democratically elected socialist president of Chile, Salvador Allende, was overthrown and killed in a U.S.-backed military coup. Well, you get the idea.

In this way, Washington repeatedly worked its will as the leader of what was then called “the Free World.” Although such operations were carried out on the sly, when they were revealed, Americans, proud of their own democratic traditions, generally remained unfazed by what the CIA had done to democracies (and other kinds of governments) abroad in their name. If Washington repeatedly empowered regimes of a sort Americans would have found unacceptable for ourselves, it wasn’t something that most of us spent a whole lot of time fretting about in the context of the Cold War.

http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/176216/tomgram:_engelhardt,_the_most_dangerous_country_on_earth/#more

Cheers

Sounds like an interesting read even though much of it is already well known but I don't think I want to risk the Christmas indigestion. But it's off season for the lycra clad mammals so you never know. It might be better to get the suffering out of the way before the new year and wait and see how the the Trump Empire will entertain me.

 

[python]

an interesting article from a specialized and rather neutral source. it shed light on how and why the syrian army was able to turn the aleppo military standoff into its favour. and also why the erdogan gamble in syria, which initially was tacitly tolerated by the russian/syrian forces, ran into a wall once erdo tried to un-stick from the agreed up on conditions. the author believes that erdogan was out played and out foxed in his own duplicitous game...

Why are the flames of Aleppo burning Turkey?

Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2016/12/turkey-syria-aleppo-defeat-worst-case-scenario.html#ixzz4S3PiyiCb

Russia and Syria had given Turkey the green light to move south from the border towns of Jarablus and al-Rai toward al-Bab. The arrangement was for Turkey to end its logistics support to the Aleppo groups in return for getting maneuvering space near its border. But when Turkey expanded its operations beyond the agreed-on area, the green light turned to red and both the Turkish army and Turkish-supported groups became targeted by regime forces.

 

[movingtarget]

Abe to visit Pearl Harbor

http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=4z5Q7LhI+KVBjmEgFdYACPLKh239P3pgBgEGBL816eqcpvlGpgZEKbPw/UC25BuRoXKJkobp/qum/loQ2U6W8tf5Ri7lbURULpGN01oVxoUXUTZDqAPqS1ebW8kV5iIH3gmPKkpNAoiUVKF5RWlgDJUL38iaI7ja&campaign_id=129&instance_id=87405&segment_id=99173&user_id=12d98412e3bcc0522f6cfbf4c21c54e6&regi_id=42685115

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Now here's a guy who's ticked off. I admire how Russians never make open threats. Just some facts and smoldering rage. http://thesaker.is/a-not-so-subtle-threat-from-the-russian-military-the-allies-better-pay-attention/

John Swanson

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

Abe to visit Pearl Harbor

http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=4z5Q7LhI+KVBjmEgFdYACPLKh239P3pgBgEGBL816eqcpvlGpgZEKbPw/UC25BuRoXKJkobp/qum/loQ2U6W8tf5Ri7lbURULpGN01oVxoUXUTZDqAPqS1ebW8kV5iIH3gmPKkpNAoiUVKF5RWlgDJUL38iaI7ja&campaign_id=129&instance_id=87405&segment_id=99173&user_id=12d98412e3bcc0522f6cfbf4c21c54e6&regi_id=42685115

Nice gesture

 

[python]

an amazingly candid article from no less than reuters. the glorious revolutionaries feel betrayed

Ukraine feels let down by EU with visa deal elusive
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-eu-idUSKBN13V1RJ?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Reuters%2FworldNews+%28Reuters+World+News%29

i am just wondering, if this much frustration has become public, how much the glorious revolution was told off behind the closed door ?

in essence, the eu, imo opinion reasonably, just wants to have an emergency mechanism in place that would prevent the free visa abuses.

and why not ? the sensitive issues of illegal immigrants and/or refugees have become the center-stage in many eu countries - from brexit to building fences in hungary to right-wing nationalism all over to muslim immigrants - all reverberates ll over the old continent.

and i can understand the revolutionaries - to expect and not get the favours in return for being someones geopolitical tools must hurt. in the mean time, most ukrainians are barely making the ends meet. one type of russia connected oligarchs got replaced by another creed of the corrupted oligarchs calling themselves west leaning. same old shyte...

 

[blutto]

Re:

an amazingly candid article from no less than reuters. the glorious revolutionaries feel betrayed

Ukraine feels let down by EU with visa deal elusive
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-eu-idUSKBN13V1RJ?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Reuters%2FworldNews+%28Reuters+World+News%29

i am just wondering, if this much frustration has become public, how much the glorious revolution was told off behind the closed door ?

in essence, the eu, imo opinion reasonably, just wants to have an emergency mechanism in place that would prevent the free visa abuses.

and why not ? the sensitive issues of illegal immigrants and/or refugees have become the center-stage in many eu countries - from brexit to building fences in hungary to right-wing nationalism all over to muslim immigrants - all reverberates ll over the old continent.

and i can understand the revolutionaries - to expect and not get the favours in return for being someones geopolitical tools must hurt. in the mean time, most ukrainians are barely making the ends meet. one type of russia connected oligarchs got replaced by another creed of the corrupted oligarchs calling themselves west leaning. same old shyte...

....this is really going to hurt support for the glorious revolution as those visas were a big thing with the original protests....so as you pointed out nothing much has changed save for an economy that is imploding....just an exceptional situation ain't it, but it could have been much worse, it could have been another one of Killbilly's greatest hits like Syria or Libya....another entry in the vast experience thingee that Killbilly likes to blab about...and she must be so disappointed about the lack of wholesale bloodshed.....

Cheers

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

an amazingly candid article from no less than reuters. the glorious revolutionaries feel betrayed

Ukraine feels let down by EU with visa deal elusive
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-eu-idUSKBN13V1RJ?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Reuters%2FworldNews+%28Reuters+World+News%29

i am just wondering, if this much frustration has become public, how much the glorious revolution was told off behind the closed door ?

in essence, the eu, imo opinion reasonably, just wants to have an emergency mechanism in place that would prevent the free visa abuses.

and why not ? the sensitive issues of illegal immigrants and/or refugees have become the center-stage in many eu countries - from brexit to building fences in hungary to right-wing nationalism all over to muslim immigrants - all reverberates ll over the old continent.

and i can understand the revolutionaries - to expect and not get the favours in return for being someones geopolitical tools must hurt. in the mean time, most ukrainians are barely making the ends meet. one type of russia connected oligarchs got replaced by another creed of the corrupted oligarchs calling themselves west leaning. same old shyte...

Putin has Ukraine exactly where he wants it. He doesn't have to do anything and now the pressure is on in some countries to lift the sanctions. Merkel will be the main opposition. The incoming French govt support lifting the sanctions. How Trump reacts regarding NATO changes and a possible thaw with Putin will be telling. It seems his new defense secretary is against lifting the sanctions and is cool towards conciliation with Russia though. Did the EU seriously think Ukraine corruption was going to improve a lot ? They set them up to fail. Empty promises from both sides.

 

[python]

Re: Re:

....this is really going to hurt support for the glorious revolution as those visas were a big thing with the original protests....so as you pointed out nothing much has changed save for an economy that is imploding....just an exceptional situation ain't it,

Cheers

well, you are probably right. it should...i completely lost interest in the putsch and stopped following the economic as well as most other news about ukraine, except when a major western msm poped something like that. the free visa status is an exceptionally sensitive political issue to most common europeans, while it is and always was a political carrot to most euro bureaucrats. the pros and cons of free travel are more or less balanced when the countries practicing it are either bound by a common economic system or are at a comparable level. the bilateral visa free treaties being a whole different thing altogether. the ukrainian eu association and integration was never meant as an interaction of equal, mutually dependent partners. ukraine was needed as an industrial goods dump, the minerals hub and perhaps some more...being underdeveloped and poor, even if populous as it is, it was to be always told what, when and how to do. like greece, like romania or bulgaria. the main reason the putsch succeeded, imo, was not so much b/c of the eu evil designs, but b/c poland needed a large eastern slavic ally to leverage the heavy germany sway and the us as per the neocon dna wanted to 'contain' vlad. the freedom, democracy or free travel were always a deception intended to be sold domestically...

that's how cynical i have become

btw, why do you think the freest and greatest media didn't say a peep about the below... a radical politician like lyashko anywhere in europe would called a fascist, but not in ukraine b/c he was the product of the glorious revolution masters..

Radical Ukrainian politician Oleg Lyashko wants nuclear weapons
https://nuclear-news.net/2016/12/07/radical-ukrainian-politician-oleg-lyashko-wants-nuclear-weapons/

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

....this is really going to hurt support for the glorious revolution as those visas were a big thing with the original protests....so as you pointed out nothing much has changed save for an economy that is imploding....just an exceptional situation ain't it,

Cheers

well, you are probably right. it should...i completely lost interest in the putsch and stopped following the economic as well as most other news about ukraine, except when a major western msm poped something like that. the free visa status is an exceptionally sensitive political issue to most common europeans, while it is and always was a political carrot to most euro bureaucrats. the pros and cons of free travel are more or less balanced when the countries practicing it are either bound by a common economic system or are at a comparable level. the bilateral visa free treaties being a whole different thing altogether. the ukrainian eu association and integration was never meant as an interaction of equal, mutually dependent partners. ukraine was needed as an industrial goods dump, the minerals hub and perhaps some more...being underdeveloped and poor, even if populous as it is, it was to be always told what, when and how to do. like greece, like romania or bulgaria. the main reason the putsch succeeded, imo, was not so much b/c of the eu evil designs, but b/c poland needed a large eastern slavic ally to leverage the heavy germany sway and the us as per the neocon dna wanted to 'contain' vlad. the freedom, democracy or free travel were always a deception intended to be sold domestically...

that's how cynical i have become

btw, why do you think the freest and greatest media didn't say a peep about the below... a radical politician like lyashko anywhere in europe would called a fascist, but not in ukraine b/c he was the product of the glorious revolution masters..

Radical Ukrainian politician Oleg Lyashko wants nuclear weapons
https://nuclear-news.net/2016/12/07/radical-ukrainian-politician-oleg-lyashko-wants-nuclear-weapons/

....the bolded has me puzzled...the Ukra-nazis who were behind the coup have as much love for the Poles as they do for the Russians do they not?....could you expand on that bolded bit.....

Cheers

 

[python]

Re: Re:

....this is really going to hurt support for the glorious revolution as those visas were a big thing with the original protests....so as you pointed out nothing much has changed save for an economy that is imploding....just an exceptional situation ain't it,

Cheers

well, you are probably right. it should...i completely lost interest in the putsch and stopped following the economic as well as most other news about ukraine, except when a major western msm poped something like that. the free visa status is an exceptionally sensitive political issue to most common europeans, while it is and always was a political carrot to most euro bureaucrats. the pros and cons of free travel are more or less balanced when the countries practicing it are either bound by a common economic system or are at a comparable level. the bilateral visa free treaties being a whole different thing altogether. the ukrainian eu association and integration was never meant as an interaction of equal, mutually dependent partners. ukraine was needed as an industrial goods dump, the minerals hub and perhaps some more...being underdeveloped and poor, even if populous as it is, it was to be always told what, when and how to do. like greece, like romania or bulgaria. the main reason the putsch succeeded, imo, was not so much b/c of the eu evil designs, but b/c poland needed a large eastern slavic ally to leverage the heavy germany sway and the us as per the neocon dna wanted to 'contain' vlad. the freedom, democracy or free travel were always a deception intended to be sold domestically...

that's how cynical i have become

btw, why do you think the freest and greatest media didn't say a peep about the below... a radical politician like lyashko anywhere in europe would called a fascist, but not in ukraine b/c he was the product of the glorious revolution masters..

Radical Ukrainian politician Oleg Lyashko wants nuclear weapons
https://nuclear-news.net/2016/12/07/radical-ukrainian-politician-oleg-lyashko-wants-nuclear-weapons/

....the bolded has me puzzled...the Ukra-nazis who were behind the coup have as much love for the Poles as they do for the Russians do they not?....could you expand on that bolded bit.....

Cheers

let me qualify what's following by 1st saying it is my opinion. it is based on a lot of reading at the time of the putsch development and perhaps some analysis of the poland's role all long.

you are correct, i read more than once that during the world war 2 the ukrainian ultra nationalist under bandera committed mass atrocities against the polish civilians. it is remembered in poland and in fact, iirc, just recently there were some official polish govt and/or legislative moves to make permanent the memory of the atrocities. it is a source of irritation TODAY on either side. for sure on a historical level. but by my reckoning, it's far outweighed by several geopolitical and regional factors.

1st, if you recall, right before the putsch it was poland (along with france and germany) 'mediating' btwn the yanokovich and the maidan mob. yes, it was the polish foreign minister's signature (along with france's and germany's) that guaranteed the conditions of a peaceful power transition. we know now that THAT guarantee was a ploy to lull the yanuk supporters, b/c the very next day an armed and violent coup broke out. the outcome is well known. these are recorded facts.

it is kinda understood WHY the 'guarantors' where france and germany. they are the europe's big powers that became the defacto voice of europe on foreign policy. but why poland ?

well, 1st off, as the most virulent and powerful anti-russian govt in the eu (the baltic puddles cant even bark right) they have been behind a lot of anti- russian policies. 2nd, iirc, the western ukraine was a part of polant at one time which russia took away from them. i read that the polish influence in western ukraine has always been very significant and the language they speak is very close to polish. not that poland can reabsorb the western ukraine again, but there this funny thing of most states wanting to maintain their historic sphere of influence where they once were significant.

then, i don't think you haven't heard it, the professional midan rioters and sharpshooters where trained in polish secret camps. several alternative media sourced disclosed it. no wonder, poland was among the 'mediators'.

then there is this complicated thing of the intra-european politics, history and friction. since the Napoleonic wars poland was fractured and divided btwn the bigger european powers. to the east they could not trust russia and to the west they always felt vulnerable to germany. for a while, it was england that the poles looked to, but after the ww2 america increasingly replaced gb as a sort of protector/model.

and here we came to a special relations btwn poland and the us. sort of similar to the special us-britain relations but in the east.

it is well understood among the eu's most sober politicians that the core european interests, while greatly overlap, DONT coincide with the america's. besides the fatigue from being drawn in the endless military advantures, there is real irritation at the american commercial/business/financial selfishness and arrogance...hence, the urge to form a european army separate from the nato (btw, poland is dead against the european army), hence the real difficulties in trade negotiations etc etc..

the us, of course is not going to give up the deciding influence it currently enjoys within both the nato and the eu foreigh policy options. that's where poland was increasing played, where did the 'anti-iranian' anti-missle 'defence was to go after the czechs refused ? right, to poland. where did the most secret cia prisons came to be ? right. poland. etc etc. the us is simply doing a classic divide and rule thing to keep its own interest as is. poland is a convenient conduit. they dont trust the russians, they fear germany, they fear the eu disintegration. hence poland is involved into building -and leading - its own little block of the eastern european states. all well within the eu. in fact, there is one already. i cant recall the abbreviation. they have regular open meeting, consultations, seminars.

having ukraine into such a block, particularly if lead by poland, would pretty much solve all her historical insecurity problems. just my opinion and analysis.

 

[Starstruck]

In 1993 dumping radioactive waste at sea was banned. The solution was to build pipelines that directly discharge the radioactive waste into the ocean, technically land based disposal. Don't worry, radiation isn't causing cancers. Science, and the dark side - which is human after all. Defer to Authority.
Somehow I don't think the solution to pollution is dispersion. I could be wrong but...
Radioactive waste: Dumped and Forgotten
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcaOX2rW0gc

It's probably fake news, or a conspiracy theory...or whatever psychological defense is de rigueur.

I love Moules frites! Yum.

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

....this is really going to hurt support for the glorious revolution as those visas were a big thing with the original protests....so as you pointed out nothing much has changed save for an economy that is imploding....just an exceptional situation ain't it,

Cheers

well, you are probably right. it should...i completely lost interest in the putsch and stopped following the economic as well as most other news about ukraine, except when a major western msm poped something like that. the free visa status is an exceptionally sensitive political issue to most common europeans, while it is and always was a political carrot to most euro bureaucrats. the pros and cons of free travel are more or less balanced when the countries practicing it are either bound by a common economic system or are at a comparable level. the bilateral visa free treaties being a whole different thing altogether. the ukrainian eu association and integration was never meant as an interaction of equal, mutually dependent partners. ukraine was needed as an industrial goods dump, the minerals hub and perhaps some more...being underdeveloped and poor, even if populous as it is, it was to be always told what, when and how to do. like greece, like romania or bulgaria. the main reason the putsch succeeded, imo, was not so much b/c of the eu evil designs, but b/c poland needed a large eastern slavic ally to leverage the heavy germany sway and the us as per the neocon dna wanted to 'contain' vlad. the freedom, democracy or free travel were always a deception intended to be sold domestically...

that's how cynical i have become

btw, why do you think the freest and greatest media didn't say a peep about the below... a radical politician like lyashko anywhere in europe would called a fascist, but not in ukraine b/c he was the product of the glorious revolution masters..

Radical Ukrainian politician Oleg Lyashko wants nuclear weapons
https://nuclear-news.net/2016/12/07/radical-ukrainian-politician-oleg-lyashko-wants-nuclear-weapons/

....the bolded has me puzzled...the Ukra-nazis who were behind the coup have as much love for the Poles as they do for the Russians do they not?....could you expand on that bolded bit.....

Cheers

let me qualify what's following by 1st saying it is my opinion. it is based on a lot of reading at the time of the putsch development and perhaps some analysis of the poland's role all long.

you are correct, i read more than once that during the world war 2 the ukrainian ultra nationalist under bandera committed mass atrocities against the polish civilians. it is remembered in poland and in fact, iirc, just recently there were some official polish govt and/or legislative moves to make permanent the memory of the atrocities. it is a source of irritation TODAY on either side. for sure on a historical level. but by my reckoning, it's far outweighed by several geopolitical and regional factors.

1st, if you recall, right before the putsch it was poland (along with france and germany) 'mediating' btwn the yanokovich and the maidan mob. yes, it was the polish foreign minister's signature (along with france's and germany's) that guaranteed the conditions of a peaceful power transition. we know now that THAT guarantee was a ploy to lull the yanuk supporters, b/c the very next day an armed and violent coup broke out. the outcome is well known. these are recorded facts.

it is kinda understood WHY the 'guarantors' where france and germany. they are the europe's big powers that became the defacto voice of europe on foreign policy. but why poland ?

well, 1st off, as the most virulent and powerful anti-russian govt in the eu (the baltic puddles cant even bark right) they have been behind a lot of anti- russian policies. 2nd, iirc, the western ukraine was a part of polant at one time which russia took away from them. i read that the polish influence in western ukraine has always been very significant and the language they speak is very close to polish. not that poland can reabsorb the western ukraine again, but there this funny thing of most states wanting to maintain their historic sphere of influence where they once were significant.

then, i don't think you haven't heard it, the professional midan rioters and sharpshooters where trained in polish secret camps. several alternative media sourced disclosed it. no wonder, poland was among the 'mediators'.

then there is this complicated thing of the intra-european politics, history and friction. since the Napoleonic wars poland was fractured and divided btwn the bigger european powers. to the east they could not trust russia and to the west they always felt vulnerable to germany. for a while, it was england that the poles looked to, but after the ww2 america increasingly replaced gb as a sort of protector/model.

and here we came to a special relations btwn poland and the us. sort of similar to the special us-britain relations but in the east.

it is well understood among the eu's most sober politicians that the core european interests, while greatly overlap, DONT coincide with the america's. besides the fatigue from being drawn in the endless military advantures, there is real irritation at the american commercial/business/financial selfishness and arrogance...hence, the urge to form a european army separate from the nato (btw, poland is dead against the european army), hence the real difficulties in trade negotiations etc etc..

the us, of course is not going to give up the deciding influence it currently enjoys within both the nato and the eu foreigh policy options. that's where poland was increasing played, where did the 'anti-iranian' anti-missle 'defence was to go after the czechs refused ? right, to poland. where did the most secret cia prisons came to be ? right. poland. etc etc. the us is simply doing a classic divide and rule thing to keep its own interest as is. poland is a convenient conduit. they dont trust the russians, they fear germany, they fear the eu disintegration. hence poland is involved into building -and leading - its own little block of the eastern european states. all well within the eu. in fact, there is one already. i cant recall the abbreviation. they have regular open meeting, consultations, seminars.

having ukraine into such a block, particularly if lead by poland, would pretty much solve all her historical insecurity problems. just my opinion and analysis.

...to the bolded....having a parent from that area and having been around a lot of folks from that area can say with some certainty that the while the influence is significant its very negative ( the Poles did not produce much in the way of good feelings when they were overlords in that area....) and being a fluent speaker of the Ukrainian dialect from that area I can say it is much closer to Czech than Polish...

....the US connection does seem to be the over-riding factor....and yeah the sharpshooters were trained abroad and yeah the putsch ran its course much as you described....as for the Ukra-nazis, they were double dealing scum during WW2 and is little surprise they are double dealing scum now...

Cheers

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

....this is really going to hurt support for the glorious revolution as those visas were a big thing with the original protests....so as you pointed out nothing much has changed save for an economy that is imploding....just an exceptional situation ain't it,

Cheers

well, you are probably right. it should...i completely lost interest in the putsch and stopped following the economic as well as most other news about ukraine, except when a major western msm poped something like that. the free visa status is an exceptionally sensitive political issue to most common europeans, while it is and always was a political carrot to most euro bureaucrats. the pros and cons of free travel are more or less balanced when the countries practicing it are either bound by a common economic system or are at a comparable level. the bilateral visa free treaties being a whole different thing altogether. the ukrainian eu association and integration was never meant as an interaction of equal, mutually dependent partners. ukraine was needed as an industrial goods dump, the minerals hub and perhaps some more...being underdeveloped and poor, even if populous as it is, it was to be always told what, when and how to do. like greece, like romania or bulgaria. the main reason the putsch succeeded, imo, was not so much b/c of the eu evil designs, but b/c poland needed a large eastern slavic ally to leverage the heavy germany sway and the us as per the neocon dna wanted to 'contain' vlad. the freedom, democracy or free travel were always a deception intended to be sold domestically...

that's how cynical i have become

btw, why do you think the freest and greatest media didn't say a peep about the below... a radical politician like lyashko anywhere in europe would called a fascist, but not in ukraine b/c he was the product of the glorious revolution masters..

Radical Ukrainian politician Oleg Lyashko wants nuclear weapons
https://nuclear-news.net/2016/12/07/radical-ukrainian-politician-oleg-lyashko-wants-nuclear-weapons/

....the bolded has me puzzled...the Ukra-nazis who were behind the coup have as much love for the Poles as they do for the Russians do they not?....could you expand on that bolded bit.....

Cheers

let me qualify what's following by 1st saying it is my opinion. it is based on a lot of reading at the time of the putsch development and perhaps some analysis of the poland's role all long.

you are correct, i read more than once that during the world war 2 the ukrainian ultra nationalist under bandera committed mass atrocities against the polish civilians. it is remembered in poland and in fact, iirc, just recently there were some official polish govt and/or legislative moves to make permanent the memory of the atrocities. it is a source of irritation TODAY on either side. for sure on a historical level. but by my reckoning, it's far outweighed by several geopolitical and regional factors.

1st, if you recall, right before the putsch it was poland (along with france and germany) 'mediating' btwn the yanokovich and the maidan mob. yes, it was the polish foreign minister's signature (along with france's and germany's) that guaranteed the conditions of a peaceful power transition. we know now that THAT guarantee was a ploy to lull the yanuk supporters, b/c the very next day an armed and violent coup broke out. the outcome is well known. these are recorded facts.

it is kinda understood WHY the 'guarantors' where france and germany. they are the europe's big powers that became the defacto voice of europe on foreign policy. but why poland ?

well, 1st off, as the most virulent and powerful anti-russian govt in the eu (the baltic puddles cant even bark right) they have been behind a lot of anti- russian policies. 2nd, iirc, the western ukraine was a part of polant at one time which russia took away from them. i read that the polish influence in western ukraine has always been very significant and the language they speak is very close to polish. not that poland can reabsorb the western ukraine again, but there this funny thing of most states wanting to maintain their historic sphere of influence where they once were significant.

then, i don't think you haven't heard it, the professional midan rioters and sharpshooters where trained in polish secret camps. several alternative media sourced disclosed it. no wonder, poland was among the 'mediators'.

then there is this complicated thing of the intra-european politics, history and friction. since the Napoleonic wars poland was fractured and divided btwn the bigger european powers. to the east they could not trust russia and to the west they always felt vulnerable to germany. for a while, it was england that the poles looked to, but after the ww2 america increasingly replaced gb as a sort of protector/model.

and here we came to a special relations btwn poland and the us. sort of similar to the special us-britain relations but in the east.

it is well understood among the eu's most sober politicians that the core european interests, while greatly overlap, DONT coincide with the america's. besides the fatigue from being drawn in the endless military advantures, there is real irritation at the american commercial/business/financial selfishness and arrogance...hence, the urge to form a european army separate from the nato (btw, poland is dead against the european army), hence the real difficulties in trade negotiations etc etc..

the us, of course is not going to give up the deciding influence it currently enjoys within both the nato and the eu foreigh policy options. that's where poland was increasing played, where did the 'anti-iranian' anti-missle 'defence was to go after the czechs refused ? right, to poland. where did the most secret cia prisons came to be ? right. poland. etc etc. the us is simply doing a classic divide and rule thing to keep its own interest as is. poland is a convenient conduit. they dont trust the russians, they fear germany, they fear the eu disintegration. hence poland is involved into building -and leading - its own little block of the eastern european states. all well within the eu. in fact, there is one already. i cant recall the abbreviation. they have regular open meeting, consultations, seminars.

having ukraine into such a block, particularly if lead by poland, would pretty much solve all her historical insecurity problems. just my opinion and analysis.

...to the bolded....having a parent from that area and having been around a lot of folks from that area can say with some certainty that the while the influence is significant its very negative ( the Poles did not produce much in the way of good feelings when they were overlords in that area....) and being a fluent speaker of the Ukrainian dialect from that area I can say it is much closer to Czech than Polish...

....the US connection does seem to be the over-riding factor....and yeah the sharpshooters were trained abroad and yeah the putsch ran its course much as you described....as for the Ukra-nazis, they were double dealing scum during WW2 and is little surprise they are double dealing scum now...

Cheers

 

[blutto]

.....hmmmm.....how could this be !?!?....

US Airstrikes on Syrian Troops: Report Data Undermine Claim of “Mistake”

by Gareth Porter

The summary report on an investigation into US and allied air strikes on Syrian government troops has revealed irregularities in decision-making consistent with a deliberate targeting of Syrian forces.

The report, released by US Central Command on 29 November, shows that senior US Air Force officers at the Combined Air Operations Center (CAOC) at al-Udeid Airbase in Qatar, who were responsible for the decision to carry out the September airstrike at Deir Ezzor:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/12/08/us-airstrikes-on-syrian-troops-report-data-undermine-claim-of-mistake/

Cheers

 

[blutto]

....there are a lot of people aren't going to be happy with this....but if this is legit this could turn out good eh...

Donald Trump has laid out a US military policy that would avoid interventions in foreign conflicts and instead focus heavily on defeating Islamic State militancy.

“We will stop racing to topple foreign regimes that we know nothing about, that we shouldn’t be involved with,” the president-elect said on Tuesday night in Fayetteville, near Fort Bragg military base in North Carolina.

“Instead our focus must be on defeating terrorism and destroying Isis, and we will.”

Obama dismisses his security critics and urges Trump to avoid 'overreach'

Trump’s remarks came a few hours after Barack Obama delivered what was billed as the final national security address of his presidency.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/07/donald-trump-we-will-stop-racing-to-topple-foreign-regimes

Cheers

 

[blutto]

....big change on the Ukrainian visa issue ?.....more cheap labour for Europe ?.....depopulation of The Ukraine ?...

The European Union will soon let Ukrainians and Georgians visit the bloc without needing a visa after diplomats and lawmakers struck a deal on Thursday to end an internal EU dispute that had been holding up the promised measures.

Agreement on a mechanism for suspending such visa waivers in emergencies ends mounting embarrassment for some EU leaders who felt the bloc was reneging on pledges to ex-Soviet states it has promised to help as they try to move out from Moscow's shadow.

European Council President warned on Wednesday that the EU was risking its credibility by failing to reward Georgia and Ukraine for painful reforms. Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko hailed "encouraging news from Brussels

".

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-eu-idUSKBN13X0QI

Cheers

 

[djpbaltimore]

I thought they preferred to be called Ukraine without the article attached.

 

[blutto]

Re:

I thought they preferred to be called Ukraine without the article attached.

....its a translation thing....and leaves a huge remainder when divided simply...I'm kinda Ukrainian, and have been for a while, so I kinda know...read, no easy solution...

Cheers