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World Politics

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djpbaltimore said:
ScienceIsCool said:
That was a commercial click-bait farm with no ties to any government agency... It was a convenient piece of theater considering the indicted are all Russian nobodies working for minimum wage trying to generate trending articles for puppy photos, Clinton, Trump, and Black Lives Matter. They will never be extradited or arrested, which means that these 13 woeful indictments will never have to be tested in court.

Note also, that NONE of it has anything to do with the leaked DNC info that several people directly have involved have confirmed it was an insider leak and have hinted very heavily that it was Seth Rich, And way above all that is the notion that learning the truth about a political party and its machinations is a bad thing. A criminal thing. That used to be what journalism was all about!

John Swanson
And yet it consistently followed in lock step the party line of the Russian gov't. And Prigozhin was a close associate of Putin. Weird coincidence.... I guess......

Mindiyarov said he took a job at the troll factory in late 2014 because he was unemployed and curious. At the time, about 400 people occupied four floors of an office building and worked 12-hour shifts, he said. Most of the operation focused on the separatist insurgency in eastern Ukraine and Western sanctions against Russia, not political races in the West, he said.....“The world in those comments was divided into black and white: America was bad, Putin was good,” he said. “They praised whatever had to do with Putin and criticized anything related to America, ‘gay’ Europe, and so on. That was the principle of the work.”

http://time.com/5165805/russian-troll-factory-mueller-indictments/

As for the second part, that is not strictly true. Do you suppose that those pilfered DNC materials played no part in the disinformation campaign by those workers? It was a key part of the grift. The fuel to light the fire.

Thirdly, the Seth Rich story is unworthy of discussion. If people had any actual proof of his involvement, it would've been released. HIs parents are suing Fox for giving these allegations air time.

Oh, man. Prigozhin is literally nicknamed "Putin's Chef" because the only connection between the two is that Prigozhin's companies catered a couple of events that Putin attended. That's literally it.

The click-bait farm produced almost no pro-Trump or anti-Clinton posts until AFTER the election at which point it tried to jump on the Pussyhat wagon and had some anti-Trump protest promotion. Which were an abysmal failure.

And if Prigozhin the "hot dog king" ultimately wanted to put a pro-Russia nationalist spin on what his hobby business was producing, so effing what? I simply can't fathom how anybody could think that 400 desperately poor hacks could put a dent into the indispensable nation, no matter what they wrote. And we're not talking intellectuals here. They were posting all kinds of crap including puppy photos.

John Swanson
 
The only connection? You mean other than bankrolling the Wagner mercs in Syria? Fixer might be a more apt phrase than chef.

The effect on the outcome is not the point. Bullsfan was skeptical that there was any Russian meddling at all. Whether that the meddling was meaningful in an absolute sense is unknowable.

The TEN_GOP account named in the indictment was active before and after the election. Saying that there was almost 'no involvement' on behalf of Trump is ludicrous.
 
Putin's "chef" is on the US sanctions list
https://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Pages/jl0688.aspx
Treasury Sanctions Individuals and Entities In Connection with Russia's Occupation of Crimea and the Conflict in Ukraine 12/20/2016

Yevgeniy Prigozhin is being designated under E.O. 13661 for having materially assisted, sponsored, or provided financial, material, or technological support for, or goods or services in support of, senior officials of the Russian Federation. Prigozhin has extensive business dealings with the Russian Federation Ministry of Defense, and a company with significant ties to him holds a contract to build a military base near the Russian Federation border with Ukraine. Russia has been building additional military bases near the Ukrainian border and has used these bases as staging points for deploying soldiers into Ukraine.

http://johnhelmer.net/a-lesson-in-p...ueller-a-lesson-in-warfare-for-dmitry-peskov/
 
Re: Re:

ScienceIsCool said:
Bustedknuckle said:
BUT in putin's interest. Vlad has said many times the one thing he detests is betrayal.

I think this is one of those cases where you have to separate the person from the nation. Putin is willing to endure some humiliation in order to put Russia first and advance its goals. Take the recent wholesale killing of Russian mercs in Syria. Basically no response. Compare that to a few Blackwater mercs hanging from a bridge. All of Fallujah got flattened over that one. Now just imagine what President Carrot would do!! Back on topic, I just don't think Putin would run the calculus and then decide to whack a traitor a decade later using the most ridiculous method possible.

John Swanson

Can you, separate putin from the Russian state? There have been way too many 'suspicious' deaths of current and former Russians who disagreed with Vlad...I think some of putin's underlings hear vlad complain, and then take some sort of action..clumsy, yes but..
 
Interesting article about Novichok featuring information from a scientist mentioned in a piece aphro posted over in the US thread who was involved in its development.
Vil Mirzayanov, 83, said the chemical was too dangerous for anyone but a “high-level senior scientist” to handle and that even he – who worked for 30 years inside the secret military installation where novichok was developed and gained extensive personal experience in handling the agent – would not know how to weaponize it. He said he did not see how a criminal organization or other non-state group could pull off such an attack.
“I believe they brought binary version,” Mirzayanov said. “It’s two ampules, small containers, like a big bullet, put them together in a spray or something, and after that, some mechanism which is mixing them, a couple seconds and after that you’re shooting.”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/16/russian-spy-poisoning-attack-novichok-chemist
 
Very interesting article on Mirzayanov, but a few points:

1) When he says the activity declines over time during storage, I think he’s referring to storage in the binary form, though I’m not sure. If so, then someone would have had to make it relatively recently, i.e., in the past ten years or so.

2) He emphasizes the difficult of “weaponizing” it. No doubt that’s true if you want to use it in a safe and efficient manner. But surely it could be done in a crude fashion by having the two components mixed in a simple sprayer.

3) He doesn’t address the apparent delayed reaction, why the Skripals apparently were exposed to the agent prior to being on the park bench. Another possibility. in addition to the clothing contamination I suggested before. is that if the two components were mixed crudely in a sprayer, the mixing would have been inefficient, and perhaps the amount of active agent actually sprayed much less than what had been planned. OTOH, if it had been sprayed at all, i would think the Skripals would have been aware of this, and would have called for help, not gone to a park bench. I guess it would be possible to spray a small amount on their clothing without being noticed, though.

I also find it interesting that Corbyn raised the third party possibility (which Mirzayanov rejects) because as I said before, I’m quite sure British Intelligence would have considered that possibility. Maybe in fact they talked to Mirzayanov before telling May their conclusion.

With regard to Mac’s link, Murray’s article, I’m sure there are several countries that possess at least small quantities of every nerve agent they can get their hands on. Why? Because you need them in order both to identify and develop an antidote to any agent that your military might be exposed to.This is an active field of research, as shown, e.g., by a link I posted upthread.

I agree with Murray (what he’s implying) that there should have been an independent investigation before announcing any blame. I would have thought May would have welcomed the chance to postpone making any ultimatums, then having to back them up. I'm really mystified why the Brits would plunge into this very awkward situation when they could have delayed the blame game. I understand there was public pressure to announce the cause of death, and once it was determined it was a nerve agent, to say something more to show their concern for public safety, but the government did not have to come up with a firm conclusion within a week.
 
Re: Re:

Bustedknuckle said:
ScienceIsCool said:
Bustedknuckle said:
BUT in putin's interest. Vlad has said many times the one thing he detests is betrayal.

I think this is one of those cases where you have to separate the person from the nation. Putin is willing to endure some humiliation in order to put Russia first and advance its goals. Take the recent wholesale killing of Russian mercs in Syria. Basically no response. Compare that to a few Blackwater mercs hanging from a bridge. All of Fallujah got flattened over that one. Now just imagine what President Carrot would do!! Back on topic, I just don't think Putin would run the calculus and then decide to whack a traitor a decade later using the most ridiculous method possible.

John Swanson

Can you, separate putin from the Russian state? There have been way too many 'suspicious' deaths of current and former Russians who disagreed with Vlad...I think some of putin's underlings hear vlad complain, and then take some sort of action..clumsy, yes but..

The "clumsy action" also effects journalists and so called political opposition. Usually people that constantly speak their minds against Putin. Even artists are being taken to task for non conventional views or anti conservative views. Not killed but put out of a job and made sure they are pretty much forgotten as well as maligned by the media. Schoolteachers and librarians and history teachers are also not immune it seems.
 
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movingtarget said:

I thought it was companies who wrecked the power system for their own gain? https://www.marketwatch.com/story/enron-caused-california-blackouts-traders-say

Or by "regulatory capture"
http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/3/another-obama-regulator-refuses-to-regulate.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

Funny, how many industries are considered "vital to national interests" but are in the hands of private companies who screw every last possible dime/penny/cent out of the tax payers. If they are of such "national security" then maybe the Government should take care of them?
 
Callin Murray a former ambassador gives him too much credence, like calling Icke a former BBC journalist.

Corbyn must be some sort of Idiot though when he suggests giving a sample to the Putin;s regime to get them to confirm whether they did it or not, whats Putin going to say, "Jeremy having examined the sample, I can assure you its a fair cop we did it"
 
https://theintercept.com/2018/03/21/jared-kushner-saudi-crown-prince-mohammed-bin-salman/
In late October, Jared Kushner made an unannounced trip to Riyadh, catching some intelligence officials off guard. “The two princes are said to have stayed up until nearly 4 a.m. several nights, swapping stories and planning strategy,” the Washington Post’s David Ignatius reported at the time.

What exactly Kushner and the Saudi royal talked about in Riyadh may be known only to them, but after the meeting, Crown Prince Mohammed told confidants that Kushner had discussed the names of Saudis disloyal to the crown prince, according to three sources who have been in contact with members of the Saudi and Emirati royal families since the crackdown. Kushner, through his attorney’s spokesperson, denies having done so.

It is likely that Crown Prince Mohammed would have known who his critics were without Kushner mentioning them, a U.S. government official who declined to be identified pointed out. The crown prince may also have had his own reasons for saying that Kushner shared information with him, even if that wasn’t true. Just the appearance that Kushner did so would send a powerful message to the crown prince’s allies and enemies that his actions were backed by the U.S. government.

One of the people MBS told about the discussion with Kushner was UAE Crown Prince Mohammed bin Zayed, according to a source who talks frequently to confidants of the Saudi and Emirati rulers. MBS bragged to the Emirati crown prince and others that Kushner was “in his pocket,” the source told The Intercept.
...
In the months that followed, the arrestees were coerced into signing over billions in personal assets to the Saudi government. In December, the London-based Arabic-language newspaper Al-Quds Al-Arabi reported that Maj. Gen. Ali al-Qahtani had been tortured to death in the Ritz. Qahtani’s body showed signs of mistreatment, including a neck that was “twisted unnaturally as though it had been broken,” bruises, and “burn marks that appeared to be from electric shocks,” the New York Times reported earlier this month.
 
Re:

Robert5091 said:
https://theintercept.com/2018/03/21/jared-kushner-saudi-crown-prince-mohammed-bin-salman/
In late October, Jared Kushner made an unannounced trip to Riyadh, catching some intelligence officials off guard. “The two princes are said to have stayed up until nearly 4 a.m. several nights, swapping stories and planning strategy,” the Washington Post’s David Ignatius reported at the time.

What exactly Kushner and the Saudi royal talked about in Riyadh may be known only to them, but after the meeting, Crown Prince Mohammed told confidants that Kushner had discussed the names of Saudis disloyal to the crown prince, according to three sources who have been in contact with members of the Saudi and Emirati royal families since the crackdown. Kushner, through his attorney’s spokesperson, denies having done so.

It is likely that Crown Prince Mohammed would have known who his critics were without Kushner mentioning them, a U.S. government official who declined to be identified pointed out. The crown prince may also have had his own reasons for saying that Kushner shared information with him, even if that wasn’t true. Just the appearance that Kushner did so would send a powerful message to the crown prince’s allies and enemies that his actions were backed by the U.S. government.

One of the people MBS told about the discussion with Kushner was UAE Crown Prince Mohammed bin Zayed, according to a source who talks frequently to confidants of the Saudi and Emirati rulers. MBS bragged to the Emirati crown prince and others that Kushner was “in his pocket,” the source told The Intercept.
...
In the months that followed, the arrestees were coerced into signing over billions in personal assets to the Saudi government. In December, the London-based Arabic-language newspaper Al-Quds Al-Arabi reported that Maj. Gen. Ali al-Qahtani had been tortured to death in the Ritz. Qahtani’s body showed signs of mistreatment, including a neck that was “twisted unnaturally as though it had been broken,” bruises, and “burn marks that appeared to be from electric shocks,” the New York Times reported earlier this month.

So the entire trump clown car is corrupt, shocking..not really.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/22/world/asia/donald-trump-jr-india.html?mtrref=www.google.com&gwh=6F84520B612693E6554875021FFF3E0F&gwt=pay
 
Re: Re:

Tonton said:
Robert5091 said:
http://www.france24.com/en/20180323...age-taking-southwest-france-carcassone-trebes
French hostage-taker demands release of Paris attacks suspect

Usch ... here we go again. :sad:
And in the end, a story of sacrifice, a tragedy, Arnaud Beltrame mort pour la France. RIP Mon Colonel. I'm proud of you.

France, wake up. When an 85 year-old woman gets killed for being Jewish. You're at War.

Who is France and with whom are they at war? Other French citizens?

Surely that makes them just like the US then. Only the US aren't amateurs. They have mass shootings every day including frequent school shootings.
 
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Chief executive of Porton Down research laboratory has told Sky News scientists have not been able to prove the Novichok nerve agent used to poison Sergei and Yulia Skripal came from Russia or establish its country of origin

oh that's embarassing
 
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Lupi33x said:
Chief executive of Porton Down research laboratory has told Sky News scientists have not been able to prove the Novichok nerve agent used to poison Sergei and Yulia Skripal came from Russia or establish its country of origin

oh that's embarassing
her majesties spooks dont care, i reckon, but some allies of eine politische mutter aren't buying her majesties story...mind you, reuters, the source of the quote below is not run from moscow but london...
Armin Laschet, a conservative ally of German Chancellor Angela Merkel, said the comment raised questions about Britain’s drive to persuade allies to expel Russian diplomats. “If one forces nearly all NATO countries into solidarity, shouldn’t one have certain evidence? Regardless of what one thinks about Russia, my study of international law taught me a different way to deal with other states,” Laschet, premier of the state of North Rhine-Westphlia, said...

my comments:
1. little surprising that a science lab said what it did about the sample chain of custody it normally aint responsible for.

2. i frankly though that threresa at their eu meeting had provided the european allies, who expelled the rus diplomats with some classified evidence of the vlad complicity derived from her majesties mi 6...several european politicians either privy to or informed of the meeting had spoken since then...there was nothing of sorts but 6 posters/exibits of how a nerve agent supposed to work along with more declarations...

in the mean time, vlad after the initial exchange of blows (23 expelled for 23 expelled) is kicking out another 50+ brits. the foreign office refused to comment...
 
The head of the lab has said that determining the source of the poison was not it's job and that the Russia connection was established by the government using a range of sources.

In fact, the confusion comes from idiot Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson who claimed that the lab had told him the poison was definitely from Russia. The official gov line at the time was that it was "of a type developed by Russia"

Whatever the evidence, it was apparently enough to convince several major states of Russian guilt within a very short time. Of course, there are various political advantages to this for various elements.

It's as well to consider this attack in the context of the Litvenenko assassination. I think this informs the British response.
 
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macbindle said:
The head of the lab has said that determining the source of the poison was not it's job and that the Russia connection was established by the government using a range of sources.

What were the sources?
 
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