World Politics

[movingtarget]

Re:

just finished perusing my morning news head lines. thankfully, unlike last morning, there are no reports of any shooting in aleppo. the civilians are gradually rising their heads...here's what puzzled me ?

just yesterday the western msm was filled with pleas to stop the cruelties against civilians, to feed them, to cloth them etc. here seems a perfect opportunity to stop mouthing off and do some good deeds by the rich countries that worried so much. yet, i found none, no news of urgent humanitarian assistance or even intiatives to that extent. none in DW, none in the guardian, none by reuters. but i did read about the turkish, the regime and even the russian efforts to ease the civilian life..

can someone point me to any news where the the western humanitarians are scrambling to help the poor civilians in aleppo ?

You mean the 3,000 or so that are left ?

 

[python]

Re: Re:

just finished perusing my morning news head lines. thankfully, unlike last morning, there are no reports of any shooting in aleppo. the civilians are gradually rising their heads...here's what puzzled me ?

just yesterday the western msm was filled with pleas to stop the cruelties against civilians, to feed them, to cloth them etc. here seems a perfect opportunity to stop mouthing off and do some good deeds by the rich countries that worried so much. yet, i found none, no news of urgent humanitarian assistance or even intiatives to that extent. none in DW, none in the guardian, none by reuters. but i did read about the turkish, the regime and even the russian efforts to ease the civilian life..

can someone point me to any news where the the western humanitarians are scrambling to help the poor civilians in aleppo ?

You mean the 3,000 or so that are left ?

pls, point me a source that 3000 are left. according to several independent sources, there were only 3 convoys of buses, that took around 2-3 thousand of 'rebels' and their families to to the idlib province. the un special envoy spoke yesterday of 50,000 civilians stock in aleppo of which the absolute majority wants to remain under the gov control


please point me to a west's scramble to help the 50,000 they mouthed off so much about.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Putin is a piece of shiyte, I don't know why people here are defending him.
That doesn't mean the US and other countries' foreign policies haven't been shiyte either, of course. But siding with Putin is something that no progressive, anywhere should do.

Putin is definitely no angel, but the endless vitriol towards anything Russia, even things that have very little to do with Putin, is going overboard.

Maybe it's cultural differences, but I've seen first hand what US foreign policy is capable of, and I am not a fan. For years the US government has been causing havoc in every corner of the world with its regime change, installing puppet governments, sanctions, embargoes, occupations through army bases, etc, and now that the Russians are throwing a card on the table, the US government gets all uppity.

The thing is, the rest of the world has to play along and get dragged into that.

It's not never ending vitriol about Russia, Putin just wants you to believe that. It seems to have come full circle now. Any criticism of Russia now is seen by many as unnecessary. The Russian propaganda machine is in full swing. Any Russia related article now on most websites seems to be invaded by trolls even when the article is not particularly critical of Russia. Trump's ongoing commentary is just making it worse. From the doping scandals to the US elections to Syria and everything in between it has become unpopular to say anything critical of Russia it seems. More and more it seems that poor Russia is beyond criticism while Trump is going to give the USA the makeover it deserves according to him and that includes giving Vlad a hug of course. Interesting days ahead.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

Putin is a piece of shiyte, I don't know why people here are defending him.
That doesn't mean the US and other countries' foreign policies haven't been shiyte either, of course. But siding with Putin is something that no progressive, anywhere should do.

Putin is definitely no angel, but the endless vitriol towards anything Russia, even things that have very little to do with Putin, is going overboard.

Maybe it's cultural differences, but I've seen first hand what US foreign policy is capable of, and I am not a fan. For years the US government has been causing havoc in every corner of the world with its regime change, installing puppet governments, sanctions, embargoes, occupations through army bases, etc, and now that the Russians are throwing a card on the table, the US government gets all uppity.

The thing is, the rest of the world has to play along and get dragged into that.

I don't understand this kind of reasoning.
It feels like "side A has gotten to play nasty, now its side B's turn". That's kindergarten logic. What Putin is doing is not necessarilly worse than what some other countries have been doing, but that doesn't make it right, and that doesn't mean people should go around defending Russia.

 

[python]

Re: Re:

just finished perusing my morning news head lines. thankfully, unlike last morning, there are no reports of any shooting in aleppo. the civilians are gradually rising their heads...here's what puzzled me ?

just yesterday the western msm was filled with pleas to stop the cruelties against civilians, to feed them, to cloth them etc. here seems a perfect opportunity to stop mouthing off and do some good deeds by the rich countries that worried so much. yet, i found none, no news of urgent humanitarian assistance or even intiatives to that extent. none in DW, none in the guardian, none by reuters. but i did read about the turkish, the regime and even the russian efforts to ease the civilian life..

can someone point me to any news where the the western humanitarians are scrambling to help the poor civilians in aleppo ?

Putin is preventing any humanitarians from entering the country and assisting the people.

i think i understand your irony, but now that the govt controls the roads and passages, there is no rational reason for vlad or assad or any of their allies to refuse, resist or in any possible way boycotting the western humanitarian assistance. that is, it the assistance was coming. i don't try to paint ALL western humanitarians with one brush, as i am sure many non-govt or private good-doers in the west are trying to reach out to turkey, russia and assad with various assistance offers.

what i wonder is why the deafening science from the western govt's. in fact, there is a very handy west-financed outfit right in the aleppo area - the 'white helmets' volunteers. they were the loudest about the civilian suffering, but now somehow vanished from the scene when they are needed the most. why ?

again, 50,000 of aleppo civilians are looking in every direction for help !!

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

Putin is a piece of shiyte, I don't know why people here are defending him.
That doesn't mean the US and other countries' foreign policies haven't been shiyte either, of course. But siding with Putin is something that no progressive, anywhere should do.

Putin is definitely no angel, but the endless vitriol towards anything Russia, even things that have very little to do with Putin, is going overboard.

Maybe it's cultural differences, but I've seen first hand what US foreign policy is capable of, and I am not a fan. For years the US government has been causing havoc in every corner of the world with its regime change, installing puppet governments, sanctions, embargoes, occupations through army bases, etc, and now that the Russians are throwing a card on the table, the US government gets all uppity.

The thing is, the rest of the world has to play along and get dragged into that.

It's not never ending vitriol about Russia, Putin just wants you to believe that. It seems to have come full circle now. Any criticism of Russia now is seen by many as unnecessary. The Russian propaganda machine is in full swing. Any Russia related article now on most websites seems to be invaded by trolls even when the article is not particularly critical of Russia. Trump's ongoing commentary is just making it worse. From the doping scandals to the US elections to Syria and everything in between it has become unpopular to say anything critical of Russia it seems. More and more it seems that poor Russia is beyond criticism while Trump is going to give the USA the makeover it deserves according to him and that includes giving Vlad a hug of course. Interesting days ahead.

Keep telling yourself that.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

Putin is a piece of shiyte, I don't know why people here are defending him.
That doesn't mean the US and other countries' foreign policies haven't been shiyte either, of course. But siding with Putin is something that no progressive, anywhere should do.

Putin is definitely no angel, but the endless vitriol towards anything Russia, even things that have very little to do with Putin, is going overboard.

Maybe it's cultural differences, but I've seen first hand what US foreign policy is capable of, and I am not a fan. For years the US government has been causing havoc in every corner of the world with its regime change, installing puppet governments, sanctions, embargoes, occupations through army bases, etc, and now that the Russians are throwing a card on the table, the US government gets all uppity.

The thing is, the rest of the world has to play along and get dragged into that.

I don't understand this kind of reasoning.
It feels like "side A has gotten to play nasty, now its side B's turn". That's kindergarten logic. What Putin is doing is not necessarilly worse than what some other countries have been doing, but that doesn't make it right, and that doesn't mean people should go around defending Russia.

I am not defending Russia. I am just calling the US government a bunch of massive hypocrites.

 

[movingtarget]

What goes around comes around : the CIA and it's meddling ways

http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=4z5Q7LhI+KVBjmEgFdYACPLKh239P3pgYnmn/FIX9hOOeuEURFqv2Fyb1i3W9TXtB/4/y4oo6kafygpcs2mNR471KS3K4hw5Fguu4C9PPbv+UkknS5UBbP13V9i8crQr5dh/8i8Sg9dCc4UxMKraDxSf128Tk2MWLsak07BQsCI=&campaign_id=129&instance_id=88179&segment_id=99887&user_id=12d98412e3bcc0522f6cfbf4c21c54e6&regi_id=42685115

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

Putin is a piece of shiyte, I don't know why people here are defending him.
That doesn't mean the US and other countries' foreign policies haven't been shiyte either, of course. But siding with Putin is something that no progressive, anywhere should do.

Putin is definitely no angel, but the endless vitriol towards anything Russia, even things that have very little to do with Putin, is going overboard.

Maybe it's cultural differences, but I've seen first hand what US foreign policy is capable of, and I am not a fan. For years the US government has been causing havoc in every corner of the world with its regime change, installing puppet governments, sanctions, embargoes, occupations through army bases, etc, and now that the Russians are throwing a card on the table, the US government gets all uppity.

The thing is, the rest of the world has to play along and get dragged into that.

It's not never ending vitriol about Russia, Putin just wants you to believe that. It seems to have come full circle now. Any criticism of Russia now is seen by many as unnecessary. The Russian propaganda machine is in full swing. Any Russia related article now on most websites seems to be invaded by trolls even when the article is not particularly critical of Russia. Trump's ongoing commentary is just making it worse. From the doping scandals to the US elections to Syria and everything in between it has become unpopular to say anything critical of Russia it seems. More and more it seems that poor Russia is beyond criticism while Trump is going to give the USA the makeover it deserves according to him and that includes giving Vlad a hug of course. Interesting days ahead.

....definitely with you on that troll thingee....terrible , just terrible.....the tragic waste of precious bandwidth....awful beyond words.....

Cheers

 

[blutto]

Re:

Putin is a piece of shiyte, I don't know why people here are defending him.
That doesn't mean the US and other countries' foreign policies haven't been shiyte either, of course. But siding with Putin is something that no progressive, anywhere should do.

....please define, in your opinion, progressive in the current political context ( and please include a word or two where that progressive would "sit" politically in today's political pantheon ).....

Cheers

 

[BullsFan22]

These are the 7 well known cases of US meddling in other countries political processes.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/20/mapped-the-7-governments-the-u-s-has-overthrown/

 

[blutto]

These are the 7 well known cases of US meddling in other countries political processes.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/20/mapped-the-7-governments-the-u-s-has-overthrown/

....and its not like they were just taking some very embarrassing truths and throwing them into the light of day (you know, sort of what the fifth estate is generally applauded for and gets awards and stuff )....

.....unlike the cases mentioned in the article where lots of people suffered horribly and lots of people died....

Cheers

....edit....the article didn't mention Indonesia where literally millions of people were slaughtered....

 

[BullsFan22]

These are the 7 well known cases of US meddling in other countries political processes.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/20/mapped-the-7-governments-the-u-s-has-overthrown/

....and its not like they were just taking some very embarrassing truths and throwing them into the light of day (you know, sort of what the fifth estate is generally applauded for and gets awards and stuff )....

.....unlike the cases mentioned in the article where lots of people suffered horribly and lots of people died....

Cheers

....edit....the article didn't mention Indonesia where literally millions of people were slaughtered....

Well, ya know, it was for the 'betterment of the world' that the US overthrew all those evil S. Americans, Middle Easterners and Asians. Lord knows how bad a democratically elected leader would have been in any of those countries!!

 

[blutto]

These are the 7 well known cases of US meddling in other countries political processes.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/20/mapped-the-7-governments-the-u-s-has-overthrown/

....and its not like they were just taking some very embarrassing truths and throwing them into the light of day (you know, sort of what the fifth estate is generally applauded for and gets awards and stuff )....

.....unlike the cases mentioned in the article where lots of people suffered horribly and lots of people died....

Cheers

....edit....the article didn't mention Indonesia where literally millions of people were slaughtered....

Well, ya know, it was for the 'betterment of the world' that the US overthrew all those evil S. Americans, Middle Easterners and Asians. Lord knows how bad a democratically elected leader would have been in any of those countries!!

...your obvious problem, young man, is youse don't really understand the idea of exceptional and all the powers and responsibilities that it hitherto and henceforth confers....I mean the good lord needs someone to spread the gospel of democracy, market freedom and the innate goodness of mom's apple pie don't he....

....when youse grows up youse'll understand...

Cheers

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

....please define, in your opinion, progressive in the current political context ( and please include a word or two where that progressive would "sit" politically in today's political pantheon ).....

Tolerance over repression
Dialogue over conflict
Spending on society over spending on 'defense'
Openness (media, politics, industry dealings, etc.) over smoke and mirrors

You think Putin is doing a good job there?

 

[aphronesis]

Good. How's that going to be implemented? Especially the "openness"?

 

[Jagartrott]

Re:

Good. How's that going to be implemented? Especially the "openness"?

That's deflection.

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

....please define, in your opinion, progressive in the current political context ( and please include a word or two where that progressive would "sit" politically in today's political pantheon ).....

Tolerance over repression
Dialogue over conflict
Spending on society over spending on 'defense'
Openness (media, politics, industry dealings, etc.) over smoke and mirrors

You think Putin is doing a good job there?

....you really gotta get off that Putin obsession thingee you is caught up in 'cause there was nothing, real or implied, in my post about Cousin Vlad....

Cheers

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

Good. How's that going to be implemented? Especially the "openness"?

That's deflection.

...nah that was most definitely a question...it even has one of these "?" things at the end....and in the middle too...so lots of those "?" things , which should have been a pretty big clue....

....and the reason we ask is we have been inundated by a mob of alt-left partisans who try to sell themselves as "real" "genuine" "progressives" but are in reality nothing but sanctimonious "left-wing" fascists, calling people names, insinuating stuff, making up crazy stuff , and craving power, just like their heroine Hillbilly....a dead give away is this weird mindless obsession with Mr Putin....so you have to understand our concerns in this matter....we are just a quiet peace-loving community of very sensitive souls here and we just don't no trouble eh....we just don't want a hockey game to break out...

Cheers

 

[Brullnux]

Dude you just cannot call Hillary or her supporters left wing. They're liberal centrists at best.

 

[blutto]

Re:

Dude you just cannot call Hillary or her supporters left wing. They're liberal centrists at best.

....absolutely correct....my major league booboo....it should have been "left wing"....and have changed the post....thanks for pointing that out....

Cheers

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Dude you just cannot call Hillary or her supporters left wing. They're liberal centrists at best.

....absolutely correct....my major league booboo....it should have been "left wing"....and have changed the post....thanks for pointing that out....

Cheers

Thanks

 

[movingtarget]

Iran the real winner

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/17/aleppo-fall-syria-iran-winner-influence-analysis

 

[blutto]

....file under, well lookee here....

DAMASCUS – According to two reports coming out of Aleppo today, at least 14 US Coalition military officers were captured this morning in an East Aleppo bunker by Syrian Special Forces.

This story was quietly leaked by Voltaire.net, who announced, “The Security Council is sitting in private on Friday, December 16, 2016, at 17:00 GMT, while NATO officers were arrested this morning by the Syrian Special Forces in a bunker in East Aleppo.”

Fares Shehabi MP, a prominent Syrian Parliamentarian and head of Aleppo’s Chamber of Commerce published the names of the Coalition officers on his Facebook page on the 15th December (emphasis added):

Mutaz Kanoğlu – Turkey
David Scott Winer – USA
David Shlomo Aram – Israel
Muhamad Tamimi – Qatar
Muhamad Ahmad Assabian – Saudi
Abd-el-Menham Fahd al Harij – Saudi
Islam Salam Ezzahran Al Hajlan – Saudi
Ahmed Ben Naoufel Al Darij – Saudi
Muhamad Hassan Al Sabihi – Saudi
Hamad Fahad Al Dousri – Saudi
Amjad Qassem Al Tiraoui – Jordan
Qassem Saad Al Shamry – Saudi
Ayman Qassem Al Thahalbi – Saudi
Mohamed Ech-Chafihi El Idrissi – Moroccan

In addition to Voltaire.net, the other original report was provided by Damascus-based Syrian journalist Said Hilal Alcharifi. According to Alcharifi, captured “NATO” officers were from a number of member states including the US, France, Germany and Turkey, as well as Israel. Here is his statement (translated from French):

“Thanks to information received, Syrian authorities discovered the headquarters of high ranking western/NATO officers in the basement of an area in East Aleppo and have captured them alive. Some names have already been given to Syrian journalists, myself included. The nationalities are US, French, British, German, Israeli, Turkish, Saudi, Moroccan, Qatari etc. In light of their nationalities and their rank, I assure you that the Syrian government have a very important catch, which should enable them to direct negotiations with the countries that have tried to destroy them.”

Although these initial reports describe the individuals in question as “NATO” officers, it’s unlikely they would have been carrying NATO colors on a covert operation – and might be more accurately labeled as US Coalition officers. Note that early reports suggest that these are not standard ‘street rebel’ or jihadi terrorists but actual Coalition military personnel and field commanders

....if this turns out to be true....hmmm, some interesting possibilities could rear their ugly heads....and circle of losers could become much larger....

http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/12/16/reports-at-least-10-nato-military-officers-captured-by-syrian-special-forces-this-morning-in-east-aleppo-bunker/

Cheers

 

[movingtarget]

Obama's failure in Syria

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/17/obama-presidency-defined-failure-face-down-assad-syria