World Politics

[Anonymous]

You are surprised regarding lax regulation of the oil industry during and immediately following having a president who was in the oil business, and a VP who was once CEO of Halliburton? Okay then...

"but the minerals agency since January 2009 has approved at least three huge lease sales, 103 seismic blasting projects and 346 drilling plans. Agency records also show that permission for those projects and plans was granted without getting the permits required under federal law"


Bush was in office, like, 11 days of 2009? I thought hope and change would fix all this stuff.

Didn't BP contribute a pretty penny to the Obama campaign? Hmmmm. I think Goldman did too.

I dunno. Maybe more/tighter/stricter regs will be the ticket. Or provide more incentive for big corps to buy and sell politicians to skirt the rules.

 

[Anonymous]

You want even less government oversight? It looks like the people running this MMS from the previous administration (that's GWB) should be in jail.

I guess you don't realize that the Bush Administration watered down all the regulatory agencies and put industry lobbyists in as their leaders.

Are you being sarcastic? Jeez, you tried to ridicule my suspicions and what do you know, they're right on target. It's unbelievable that you're going to try to spin this into a "less government' rant." You're shocked? I can't wait to see what that fertile mind of yours creates.

Responding to the accusations that agency scientists were being silenced, Ms. Barkoff added, “Under the previous administration, there was a pattern of suppressing science in decisions, and we are working very hard to change the culture and empower scientists in the Department of the Interior.”


In a letter from September 2009, obtained by The New York Times, NOAA accused the minerals agency of a pattern of understating the likelihood and potential consequences of a major spill in the gulf and understating the frequency of spills that have already occurred there.

The letter accuses the agency of highlighting the safety of offshore oil drilling operations while overlooking more recent evidence to the contrary. The data used by the agency to justify its approval of drilling operations in the gulf play down the fact that spills have been increasing and understate the “risks and impacts of accidental spills,” the letter states. NOAA declined several requests for comment.


Much as BP’s drilling plan asserted that there was no chance of an oil spill, the company also claimed in federal documents that its drilling would not have any adverse effect on endangered species.

Tensions between scientists and managers at the agency erupted in one case last year involving a rig in the gulf called the BP Atlantis. An agency scientist complained to his bosses of catastrophic safety and environmental violations. The scientist said these complaints were ignored, so he took his concerns to higher officials at the Interior Department.

“The purpose of this letter is to restate in writing our concern that the BP Atlantis project presently poses a threat of serious, immediate, potentially irreparable and catastrophic harm to the waters of the Gulf of Mexico and its marine environment, and to summarize how BP’s conduct has violated federal law and regulations,” Kenneth Abbott, the agency scientist, wrote in a letter to officials at the Interior Department that was dated May 27.


Scott,

Doesn't this look like exactly what I was saying?

The accidents are foreseeable and predictable.

TFF, is this too black and white for you?

Oh, I'm 16 years old. Any more insults?

I probably should just "let it go."

You are correct. There's no corruption in govt. Even more regs will solve this and all problems. I get it now. Thank You.

 

[buckwheat]

You are correct. There's no corruption in govt. Even more regs will solve this and all problems. I get it now. Thank You.

The whole Bush administration was corrupt you dumbas$. The people put in oversight positions were virtually indistinguishable from the people they were regulating. Cheney was in cahoots with these people you imbasile, idjuit, asshat.

You mean to say that the culture of these regulatory agencies should change overnight because of an election?

There will be even more money injected now due to the recent SCOTUS decision.

Your solution is to withdraw government even further from its oversight position? Maybe we should curtail the First Amendment too while we're at it so those pesky reporters from the NYT won't be able to tell us wtf is going on.

You're hopeless, goodbye.

 

[buckwheat]

"Those scientists said they were also regularly pressured by agency officials to change the findings of their internal studies if they predicted that an accident was likely to occur or if wildlife might be harmed."

Straight from the Cheney/CIA/Iraq playbook.

In all seriousness, this whole government needs to be purged. I am not so sure people are so much "anti-govt" as opposed to anti non-working govt. Obama is just an empty suit sporting triangulation and "bi-partisanship", like Clinton before him.

Recall under Clinton's watch the media was deregulated allowing more corporate ownership and his Justice Dept. ok'd the merger of all the large oil companies for example. This is an easy playbook to follow if you have half a brain. There is a long term goal of monopolizing industry in this country and deregulating oversight, but how they are doing it is subtle and clever; play to the ignorance of the public while this goes on behind the curtain. This is how companies become "too big to fail" and thus the govt (people) bail them out. Oh look, over there! Somebody is trying to take my guns away! Those homos are hurting the children!

Unfortunately, $ rules the roost in the US and without serious campaign finance or lobbying reform this same shyt will go on. It is going on in all facets of the "govt oversight" agencies right now, in all industries.

The supreme court just declared corporations as people. Corporations own the media outlets, and stupid people keep voting based upon their bigotry and insecurities fueled by this by-design shallow corporate owned media, further enabling this to go on.

I agree with much of this.

As Jimmy Carter said, "we're going to get a government as good as our people." Obama and Clinton are not stand up guys but they realized this. The people are insane. Look at what happened to Bennett in Utah. How the hell can an Obama or Clinton reason with these nutjobs that listen to right wing radio and Palin? You can't.

This is too nuanced a position for our boy Scott to understand. It's all or nothing for him.

Government bad, freedom good. Why do you hate our freedoms?

 

[buckwheat]

You are correct..

It's obvious. I'll be charitable and and grant that you see things in an extraordinarily simple way.

There's no corruption in govt..

Yes there is, didn't you read the article?

This is directly from the article.

Responding to the accusations that agency scientists were being silenced, Ms. Barkoff added, “Under the previous administration, there was a pattern of suppressing science in decisions, and we are working very hard to change the culture and empower scientists in the Department of the Interior.”

I've taken the liberty of bolding the most important parts because apparently your eyesight is failing you or your reading comprehension is not up to snuff.

Even more regs will solve this and all problems..

Even implementation and enforcement of the current regs will cut down on a lot of the problems. Did you read the article? I don't think it's possible to solve them all but that won't stop you from writing your hysterical little girly $hit.

I get it now.

Based on your previous output, I don't think you will ever get it. The CPU you're using doesn't have enough computing power.

I think I used that toaster crack on the wrong person.

Thank You.

For what? You push down, and then it pops up automatically. I don't believe I gave you any information your system can utilize.

 

[Anonymous]

The whole Bush administration was corrupt you dumbas$. The people put in oversight positions were virtually indistinguishable from the people they were regulating. Cheney was in cahoots with these people you imbasile, idjuit, asshat.

You mean to say that the culture of these regulatory agencies should change overnight because of an election?

There will be even more money injected now due to the recent SCOTUS decision.

Your solution is to withdraw government even further from its oversight position? Maybe we should curtail the First Amendment too while we're at it so those pesky reporters from the NYT won't be able to tell us wtf is going on.

You're hopeless, goodbye.

Gee, my feelings are now hurt. What was that you were writing about insults?

The name calling is a direct indicator of your intellect and quality (lack of) of argument.

Rules for Radicals. I get it.

BTW, interesting how those same NYT "reporters" failed to vette Obama before he was elected. Astonishing.

 

[Anonymous]

It's obvious. I'll be charitable and and grant that you see things in an extraordinarily simple way.




Yes there is, didn't you read the article?

This is directly from the article.

Responding to the accusations that agency scientists were being silenced, Ms. Barkoff added, “Under the previous administration, there was a pattern of suppressing science in decisions, and we are working very hard to change the culture and empower scientists in the Department of the Interior.”

I've taken the liberty of bolding the most important parts because apparently your eyesight is failing you or your reading comprehension is not up to snuff.





Even implementation and enforcement of the current regs will cut down on a lot of the problems. Did you read the article? I don't think it's possible to solve them all but that won't stop you from writing your hysterical little girly $hit.



Based on your previous output, I don't think you will ever get it. The CPU you're using doesn't have enough computing power.

I think I used that toaster crack on the wrong person.



For what? You push down, and then it pops up automatically. I don't believe I gave you any information your system can utilize.

Irony. Figure it out.

 

[buckwheat]

You are surprised regarding lax regulation of the oil industry during and immediately following having a president who was in the oil business, and a VP who was once CEO of Halliburton? Okay then...

Glad to see you're working up a little outrage! You say lax regulation. Didn't you see the headline? They didn't even have permits.

Anyway, I'm just going to go back to being 16 again. I'll leave it to the reasonable people like you.

I think this thing is all the fault of those black people, the ones we spent our hard earned tax dollars on buying them a bacon egg and cheese biscuit so they weren't starving. It's their fault. Yeah blame it on the Great Society.

How many times did you vote for Reagan?

 

[Anonymous]

I'm left wondering...IF I TYPE REAL BIG DOES IT MAKE ME SEEM SMARTER?

How about if I type in RED AND BIGGER?

 

[buckwheat]

Irony. Figure it out.

Irony?


There's nothing whatsoever ironic about this situation.

Rules and laws are set up and then followed. Isn't that the way a society is set up?

The whole article was about how the rules and laws were not followed.

In your genius, you blame the rules and laws themselves as the problem.

 

[buckwheat]

I'm left wondering...IF I TYPE REAL BIG DOES IT MAKE ME SEEM SMARTER?

How about if I type in RED AND BIGGER?

No, you're beyond help. I'll fill you in. It's the content that matters. Your posts representing what's in your CPU are devoid of rational meaning. Surrender, give up, it's hopeless.

 

[Anonymous]

Irony?


There's nothing whatsoever ironic about this situation.

Rules and laws are set up and then followed. Isn't that the way a society is set up?

The whole article was about how the rules and laws were not followed.

In your genius, you blame the rules and laws themselves as the problem.

Reading comprehension issues?

I find more it more than a little ironic how you look to regs as the only solution. Even when they fail, you want more, more, more. Our govt is as corrupt as the industries/companies it regulates. That's my point.

Nevermind. I'm the asshat, idjut toaster. Honestly, I was looking for a new and improved put-down. Toaster is so last week.

 

[Anonymous]

no, you're beyond help. I'll fill you in. It's the content that matters. Your posts representing what's in your cpu are devoid of rational meaning. Surrender, give up, it's hopeless.

ok, thanks.

 

[buckwheat]

Gee, my feelings are now hurt..

I'm sorry.

What was that you were writing about insults?..

I apologize again. You're right. I'm out of here until I can get control of it.

The name calling is a direct indicator of your intellect and quality (lack of) of argument.

No, it's more a reflection of my frustration and immaturity. I'm out as per above.

Rules for Radicals. I get it.

N/A. I'm not radical at all. Your anti intellectuallism is the only radical thing here.

BTW, interesting how those same NYT "reporters" failed to vette Obama before he was elected. Astonishing.

Any lack of vetting was beneficial to the Right's way of seeing things. Had Obama even been a moderate, many Republicans up to and including GWB might be on trial or in prison.

 

[buckwheat]

Reading comprehension issues?

Yes, look at the headline of the link you posted. BP didn't even have the required permits. Go put an extension on your house without a permit and see what happens when you try to sell it.

I find more it more than a little ironic how you look to regs as the only solution..

Honestly, you really have to stop ascribing absolute positions to people. Who said I see regs as the "only" solution. Obviously you need good people to implement and enforce those regs and a culture that supports doing the right thing from the bottom to the top.

ooops, should have said top to bottom. I'm a big Rush fan. "Closer to the Heart," not Limbaugh.

Even when they fail,

The regs failed? So, even though NYPD was corrupt as hell, we should take away the laws saying that heroin be illegal?

you want more, more, more.

I want the laws on the books to be enforced. You don't? One of your sides arguments is that many of these regs are useless and meaningless and only serve to cost industry without any societal benefit. I agree that useless regs should be eliminated.

Our govt is as corrupt as the industries/companies it regulates. That's my point..

That appears to be the case and I agree with that.

Don't you believe that transparency and an informed citizenry is the answer?

How do secret energy meetings between the VP Cheney and private industry serve to inform you and I who have a right to know these things?

Nevermind. I'm the asshat, idjut toaster. Honestly, I was looking for a new and improved put-down. Toaster is so last week.

Yeah, you're right. Comedy is not my strong suit.

 

[ChrisE]

I agree with much of this.

As Jimmy Carter said, "we're going to get a government as good as our people." Obama and Clinton are not stand up guys but they realized this. The people are insane. Look at what happened to Bennett in Utah. How the hell can an Obama or Clinton reason with these nutjobs that listen to right wing radio and Palin? You can't.

This is too nuanced a position for our boy Scott to understand. It's all or nothing for him.

Government bad, freedom good. Why do you hate our freedoms?

If you think the movers behind the Democratic Party are not drinking at the same trough as the GOP then I think you need to shake yourself. They are just different on the surface with the window dressing of emotional issues.

The nutjobs you refer to vote republican because they are stupid; on that I agree. The nutjobs that think Obama or any other politician from either major party, that has support of the core of the formal party movers (not somebody like Kucinich) is gonna change this are equally as stupid. You seriously cannot believe this administration's hands are tied due to wingnuts in the population; Dems have a super majority in the Senate and House, along with the Whitehouse, and not shyt has happened in terms of cracking down on corporate BS and cronyism. Any idiot can see a conflict of interest in the MMS, but it takes this to finally have something done about it.

If Obama was real he would've had his administration look at all of these regulatory agencies and cut the shyt from day one and not in 2010 (with the future watered down Wall Street reform law) and not after a catastrophe. That's what I or anybody would've done if they really worked for the constituents.

It is possible for capitalism to exist and thrive in a setting where rules are enforced to protect society. I believe even Scot believes that. It is a petty argument you two are having about how dates on a calendar define what is right and wrong in the US politically.

As long as $ and blantant lobbying by former government officials run rampant in DC then this will continue. Inside access, money, and relationships hold more sway than a block of voters. Look at Dan Coats for example. And, Evan Bayh. Don't mean to pick on Indiana but the truth is most of them are all the same.

 

[Oncearunner8]

Any lack of vetting was beneficial to the Right's way of seeing things. Had Obama even been a moderate, many Republicans up to and including GWB might be on trial or in prison.

I have to ask, do you think President Bush should have been put on trial?

 

[Oncearunner8]

The whole Bush administration was corrupt you dumbas$. The people put in oversight positions were virtually indistinguishable from the people they were regulating. Cheney was in cahoots with these people you imbasile, idjuit, asshat.

You mean to say that the culture of these regulatory agencies should change overnight because of an election?

There will be even more money injected now due to the recent SCOTUS decision.

Your solution is to withdraw government even further from its oversight position? Maybe we should curtail the First Amendment too while we're at it so those pesky reporters from the NYT won't be able to tell us wtf is going on.

You're hopeless, goodbye.

I would go so far as to say that President Obama and his administration are on the same level of corruption which you refer to.

Not hard really to understand that for the past 20 years we have basically voted into office Presidents, Congressmen, and Senators that took the levels of corruption to different levels. These elected officials now think they can do as they see please.


It is not Hopeless there is some common ground with the citizens of our country. We just have to focus attention to the problems.

 

[buckwheat]

It is possible for capitalism to exist and thrive in a setting where rules are enforced to protect society. I believe even Scot believes that. It is a petty argument you two are having about how dates on a calendar define what is right and wrong in the US politically. .

I agree with much of what you're saying.

If Scott believes that law and order should apply to everyone in this country, I agree with him.

By no means am I a big supporter of mainstream Democrats, however, they make light years more sense than the opposition.

It's clear that Clinton and Obama are corrupt, but on the scale of corruption they are far less corrupt than Cheney/Bush and nowhere near as intellectually bankrupt as the teabaggers.

Kucinich would be far better as POTUS. Ralph Nader too.

 

[buckwheat]

I have to ask, do you think President Bush should have been put on trial?

Yes.

I have to ask, do you think Bush is a criminal?

 

[Anonymous]

"but the minerals agency since January 2009 has approved at least three huge lease sales, 103 seismic blasting projects and 346 drilling plans. Agency records also show that permission for those projects and plans was granted without getting the permits required under federal law"


Bush was in office, like, 11 days of 2009? I thought hope and change would fix all this stuff.

Didn't BP contribute a pretty penny to the Obama campaign? Hmmmm. I think Goldman did too.

I dunno. Maybe more/tighter/stricter regs will be the ticket. Or provide more incentive for big corps to buy and sell politicians to skirt the rules.

"Another biologist who left the agency in 2005 after more than five years said that agency officials went out of their way to accommodate the oil and gas industry."

From the article YOU posted. Um, contextual clues will tell you a couple of things.
1. The environment there was not set by the Obama administration seeing that those people who had jobs there didn't lose them when Dubya left office. I don't know if you know this, but during that 8 years, that agency was populated more and more by people friendly to the policies of the president at that time, who was...let me check her......yep DUBYA.
2. It takes awhile to turn around a massive ship like that.
3. If you actually read the article, and think about it (I know it is easier to have Rush think for you), then you would realize that the culture there that caused the lack oversight (and if you read the article, this is not a new thing there) was created in the years prior to the Obama administration. There are also rigs already completed that were shown the same lack of oversight. I know wingnuts love to blame every thing on Obama up to and including every traffic death, but really, is it that hard to actually think about something?

 

[buckwheat]

I would go so far as to say that President Obama and his administration are on the same level of corruption which you refer to.

I disagree and by a lot. Obama is corrupt by virtue of misleading and virtually lying about what he was going to do.

Not hard really to understand that for the past 20 years we have basically voted into office Presidents, Congressmen, and Senators that took the levels of corruption to different levels. These elected officials now think they can do as they see please.

You're way over generalizing.

The decision of Bush v Gore has shown that the arbiters of law are corrupt themselves. I won't argue this point but will only say that for the SCOTUS to say that their decision only applies to that particular case is prima facie evidence of the level of the total corruption of the letter and the rule of law.

It is not Hopeless there is some common ground with the citizens of our country. We just have to focus attention to the problems.

The only hope, is that the majority, come to the conclusion, that "we've met the enemy, and he is us."

The anti intellectualism of the right, doesn't permit them to even open their eyes to this possibility.

They revel in their ignorance. I know that I myself am a corrupt, hypocritical, weak, ignorant, person.

Those on the right won't even consider this possibility about themselves and it lets them have certainty that they are right.

This leads to all manner of obscenities such as war, torture, and the perversion of faiths like Christianity.

 

[Oncearunner8]

Yes.

I have to ask, do you think Bush is a criminal?

Ok well that was clear.

I do not think he was a criminal NO.

I think he made some poor decisions and I am not sure who or what guided them. I was not the President so it is very hard for me to make the same decisions based on the information he had.

What you are posting about President Bush should go on trial or thrown in jail shows how much you’re willing to debate on any subject in my opinion. Sure you’re willing to debate and break down posts when you just want to tear it apart but I think you have never changed your mind about any subject that you’re debating.

editI took out the insulting part)

There is no middle or common ground for you. That is why some of these guys resorted to calling you names or something. Seriously I think you probably have some good ideas about governments role in regulations of corporations etc. But It is hard to read them when you come out with some whack statement about putting a President on trial.

 

[Oncearunner8]

"but the minerals agency since January 2009 has approved at least three huge lease sales, 103 seismic blasting projects and 346 drilling plans. Agency records also show that permission for those projects and plans was granted without getting the permits required under federal law"


Bush was in office, like, 11 days of 2009? I thought hope and change would fix all this stuff.

Didn't BP contribute a pretty penny to the Obama campaign? Hmmmm. I think Goldman did too.

I dunno. Maybe more/tighter/stricter regs will be the ticket. Or provide more incentive for big corps to buy and sell politicians to skirt the rules.

I agree with you Scott regarding the amount of days President Bush had in office. I think his polices had more to do with the culture than your recognizing.

It is also true that President Obama had every opportunity to change this and so far has not done anything. That makes him a failure.

Take a look back at President Carter and President Reagan’s first year in office they immediately took control and put their stamps on government polices. Regardless if you agree with either one of those presidents it is clear they had a much better idea of how they wanted to run the country.

 

[Oncearunner8]

"Another biologist who left the agency in 2005 after more than five years said that agency officials went out of their way to accommodate the oil and gas industry."

From the article YOU posted. Um, contextual clues will tell you a couple of things.
1. The environment there was not set by the Obama administration seeing that those people who had jobs there didn't lose them when Dubya left office. I don't know if you know this, but during that 8 years, that agency was populated more and more by people friendly to the policies of the president at that time, who was...let me check her......yep DUBYA.
2. It takes awhile to turn around a massive ship like that.
3. If you actually read the article, and think about it (I know it is easier to have Rush think for you), then you would realize that the culture there that caused the lack oversight (and if you read the article, this is not a new thing there) was created in the years prior to the Obama administration. There are also rigs already completed that were shown the same lack of oversight. I know wingnuts love to blame every thing on Obama up to and including every traffic death, but really, is it that hard to actually think about something?

I agree with your points.

I would add these things and that culture was already set in place during President Clinton, Bush, and Reagan. President Bush just let that prior culture become worse. These issues have been this way since the late 70’s. The only President to do anything towards limiting what was being done offshore in the gulf of mexico was President Carter. Check it out, just for ****z and giggles.