World Politics

[auscyclefan94]

What are medc and ledc countries?


@Alpe, I find Tony Abbott, who might yet be our Prime Minister and was until recently popularly known as the "Mad Monk", to be a milder version of the same thing: xenophobic, divisive, uber-conservative, often seeming to lack capacity for reason, and apparently uninterested in science (at least, apart from its commercial applications in the production of consumer items.)

In Australia in the mid 1990s a woman by the name of Pauline Hanson started a political party which was based primarily on the fear that Australia would be inundated by non-white migrants. At the time I (naively) welcomed her rise to prominence, thinking that Australia would now have a comprehensive "argument" about the xenophobia and irrationality her views were based on. I thought reason and good leadership would prevail. Unfortunately, instead of this, an aspiring Prime Minister appropriated the xenophobia and conservatism and turned it into an election winning position which has become quite mainstream in the years since.

(I'm sure other Aussies, especially ACF94, will disagree with my reading of the situation.)

I look at the US these days, and the direction in which Australia seems to be heading, and I wonder whether we are seeing the dark underbelly of democracy, liberalism and individualism: squalid results from these noble ideals. The Enlightenment seems very distant.

Not especially me, a lot of other people will agree with me. Actually 500,000 more people will support me.

What responsibility?

No one has a responsibility to vote, vote for any certain candidate, or vote formally.

82% of the votes went to the two (three) parties which hold over 95% of the seats in the lower house. There is a clear misrepresentation between the state of parliament and the judgement of the electorate. I chose to vote informally in the House of Representatives because I would be betraying my own convictions if I were to support any of the 4-5 candidates in my electorate. My informal vote sends a message to the incumbent and his party for not caring because the seat is so ridiculously safe. It also sends a message to other political parties, that there are people in the electorate who wouldn't feel adequately represented by any of the candidates, so maybe next time there will be more candidates.

Informal voting is not about not caring, or as Mark Latham tried to say, a protest over the two major parties because they ran a boring and negative campaign. It's about sending a message that people do exist who believe in values which aren't all lumped together in the center, extreme left or extreme right.

Voting isn't about duty or responsibility, it's about representation, we can't all be MPs so we vote for those who we (each individual) sees fit to represent us.

People do have the responsibility to vote. I find it funny how Latham has said that this campaign has been boring and that we should not vote, as that means that he does not care who runs our country. It is a disgrace that Ch 9 let him on tv. Latham is a mentally ill moron. The guy is a complete nutcase. Vote for whoever you want but you should not throw away the privledge and responsiblity (imo) to vote which people around the world die for. Not everyone can get exactly what they want. you can't please everybody but that does not mean because a government is not going to give you exactly what you want that you should not vote for anyone.

The worse thing is that a 5 people are going to decide who runs the country.

 

[Spare Tyre]

What responsibility?

No one has a responsibility to vote, vote for any certain candidate, or vote formally.

82% of the votes went to the two (three) parties which hold over 95% of the seats in the lower house. There is a clear misrepresentation between the state of parliament and the judgement of the electorate. I chose to vote informally in the House of Representatives because I would be betraying my own convictions if I were to support any of the 4-5 candidates in my electorate. My informal vote sends a message to the incumbent and his party for not caring because the seat is so ridiculously safe. It also sends a message to other political parties, that there are people in the electorate who wouldn't feel adequately represented by any of the candidates, so maybe next time there will be more candidates.

Informal voting is not about not caring, or as Mark Latham tried to say, a protest over the two major parties because they ran a boring and negative campaign. It's about sending a message that people do exist who believe in values which aren't all lumped together in the center, extreme left or extreme right.

Voting isn't about duty or responsibility, it's about representation, we can't all be MPs so we vote for those who we (each individual) sees fit to represent us.

If this result and state of the parliament doesn't deliver electoral reform, then the only thing which may is overhauling the constitution. Abbott's love for the Queen is perhaps what turns me off him more than anything. The fact that Malcolm Turnbull wouldn't have got within 15 seats of Labor speaks volumes about political process in this country.

I respect the choice to vote informally. It's not clear to me exactly what message was being sent by Informal voters as a whole, but if it was "a pox on both your houses" then I fully understand.

I hope this dissatisfaction with the current state of play is the beginning of a movement towards proportional representation. The dominance and narrow focus of the two major parties is a real problem. We need more voices in parliament, a wider range of perspectives and a real choice. Political discourse in Australia is (on the whole) dishonest, simplistic, conservative, irrational, preys on people's fears, and any perspectives other than the those of the Lib-Labs are dismissed as the "loony fringe". It is not serving us at all well.

 

[Spare Tyre]

Alot the rise of these nutcase movementes has to do with the Dems seemingly inability to fight for what they believe in, hampered by the corporate owned "liberal media" that is no such thing.

Regardless, the basic reason this is happening is because these people are stupid, and that is being exploited. I call them useful idiots....get the rubes worked up over homophobic, tribalistic, etc. jingoistic issues that have zero impact on their daily lives while the real business is going on in the background. The real shakers in the wingnut party could give a rat's a$$ about these social issues. They are a means to an end.

Issues like lowering the tax on the wealthy and eliminating tax on capital gains, economic policy based upon little or no regulation, and expansion or at least keeping the status quo on the military/industrical complex are issues that benefit from the votes of these dolts. For the most part, they are voting against their best interest but they are too stupid and clouded by social issues they cannot see it.

The economic crisis we are in right now is the result of the policies I described above when GWB was president. I find it humorous these policies will return due to that pasty white low IQ crowd voting for "freedom" and "patriotism" and for whatever cloud friend "god" they pretend to believe in while they are out drinking, committing adultery, divorcing, etc.

And the Dems allow it thru their cowardice. I said about 200 pages ago on this thread I will never vote for a spineless Dem again, and it seems like the only 3rd party candidates are part of some wingnut sect. I think my voting days are over....it's a wasted vote anyway in Tx no matter who you vote for except for very local races.

Certainly that is how it seems to me from afar, although I think the economic policies started with Ronald Reagan, were continued in the following years by both sides and then put on steroids under GWB.

It's pretty much the same in Australia, just on a smaller and less super-powerish scale.

Sometimes it seems as if the US is on the path to implosion.

 

[eljimberino]

Issues like lowering the tax on the wealthy and eliminating tax on capital gains, economic policy based upon little or no regulation, and expansion or at least keeping the status quo on the military/industrical complex are issues that benefit from the votes of these dolts. For the most part, they are voting against their best interest but they are too stupid and clouded by social issues they cannot see it.

Amen brother...but like I say, as long they are arguing about these issues they will learn more than by keeping quiet. It is a shame when politics is taboo because they do not want their 'beliefs' questioned.

 

[The Hitch]

What are medc and ledc countries?

Woops. Totaly forgot about this thread. MEDC countries - More economically developed countries, LEDC - Less economically developed countries.

What i mean is Religious fanatical populism of the tea party sort does not have such a profile in other more economicaly developed countries such as Western Europe, Canada and Australia. Unfortunately, having made that comment, my own country has had a slight brush with this recently with huge protests as to the location of a cross in memory of those who died in the Smolensk air crash earlier this year. Since the president was on the more religious side, the more extreme of his followers have started to claim that it is against God, or some such crap, to move the cross from its location in the town.
Still they arent trying to rewrite history, inserting religion into it, like the tea party is trying to get "under God" into the pledge of allegiance, an otherwise rightfully secular document, as the US is the worlds only constitutionaly secular country.

In Ledc's meanwhile religious nutjob populism is far more common. More extreme even, See children in Brazil being seen as holy. Mahdis in the middle east. Chavez trying to summon the spirit of Bolivar. How we would all laugh if we saw Sarah Palin try to resurect Ronald Regan no In even more extreme cases, Joseph Kuomo, and his Lords Resistance Army, murdering torturing and kidnapping children, while claiming to be some sort of a God.

 

[redtreviso]

OMG........ Too bad every state doesn't have one of these so republicans could run to the polls and vote for someone they identify with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrMKIyUv9no

 

[Spare Tyre]

Here's commentary on the current Australian political scene which echoes Chris E's comments about the failure of the US Democrats to challenge Republicans:

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/too-much-consensus-not-too-little-20100902-14riw.html


I think the author is right on the money.

 

[Anonymous]

Imagine this, the biggest supporter of the Arizona immigration law is a moron, who knew? I can't wait for the Tea Party to get more fu*king morons like this elected to office. It'll be great, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUPKKbmWMZ8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xcIlhliv1s

 

[auscyclefan94]

When did TFF get banned?

 

[Bala Verde]

Anyone read this article on the Koch Empire and the socially engineered Tea Party Movement?

Covert Operations
The billionaire brothers who are waging a war against Obama.

The dichotomies between ideology and actions are amusing. To name a few:

Anarchism/Autarchism v. Micromanaging every aspect of their social/corporate operations.

Rejection of (any type of) government v. admiration of Mussolini's attempts to eradicate Communism.

Conservatism v. admiration of Hayek ("Why I am not a conservative?")

Conservatism v. social engineering.

Freedom v. spending unlimited amounts of money to define/capture freedom

Desire for deep and widespread deregulation v. enjoying corporate privileges gained through congressional/governmental regulations.

Seeing conspiracies everywhere v. covertly funding political action groups and to conspire to change the political landscape/climate.

 

[Ferminal]

In just under 2 hours, Australia finds out if it has a government and from what side it will be.

Of the 150 seats (76 needed) the ALP-Greens-Wilkie Alliance has 74, whilst the Liberal-National Coalition has 73. Shortly, the three remaining uncommited independents will announce their decision as to which of the major parties they will support.

Ever since the middle of last week, Labor has been a very strong favourite to take government, but there hasn't been any strong hints as to which way the three will vote. It's also possible that they could split their support, a 75-75 seat split could still happen, in which case it's back to the polls for us.

 

[Ferminal]

Krazy Katter has given support to the Coalition, making it 74-74 with two to play.

 

[Ferminal]

The government stays. Windsor sided with Labor and subsequently Oakeshott was backed into a corner with no other option but to support the existing government.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Krazy Katter has given support to the Coalition, making it 74-74 with two to play.

The real krazy one is Windsor. He's a tool but I don't mind Oakeshott.

In just under 2 hours, Australia finds out if it has a government and from what side it will be.

Of the 150 seats (76 needed) the ALP-Greens-Wilkie Alliance has 74, whilst the Liberal-National Coalition has 73. Shortly, the three remaining uncommited independents will announce their decision as to which of the major parties they will support.

Ever since the middle of last week, Labor has been a very strong favourite to take government, but there hasn't been any strong hints as to which way the three will vote. It's also possible that they could split their support, a 75-75 seat split could still happen, in which case it's back to the polls for us.

Labor will have to kiss the Greens arses fro saving them. They got them over the line in so many seats it's not funny.

The government stays. Windsor sided with Labor and subsequently Oakeshott was backed into a corner with no other option but to support the existing government.

- I guess it won't be long till we are back to the polls and more people will turn against the Labor Government. The in fighting there has already begun! Even if it takes 3 years to get to the polls, Labor will self destruct and the country will go further backwards.

 

[53 x 11]

Many years ago I decided that I wanted to work in federal politics. I went to uni, studied Politics, philosophy, political philosophy, law ethics and got involved with political organisations.

What I learned that the ideal of politics "the battle of ideas" is more the 'battle of idiots". Or system is outdated, the electorate is ignorant and the politicians are self serving and media driven.


The political system in Australia is deeply flawed, and while we dont quite have someone as utterly ridiculous as Sarah Palin, it is still a system run on fear rather than insightful leadership.

Anyway, I'm gonna try not to get involved in this thread again.

 

[Spare Tyre]

Many years ago I decided that I wanted to work in federal politics. I went to uni, studied Politics, philosophy, political philosophy, law ethics and got involved with political organisations.

What I learned that the ideal of politics "the battle of ideas" is more the 'battle of idiots". Or system is outdated, the electorate is ignorant and the politicians are self serving and media driven.


The political system in Australia is deeply flawed, and while we dont quite have someone as utterly ridiculous as Sarah Palin, it is still a system run on fear rather than insightful leadership.

Anyway, I'm gonna try not to get involved in this thread again.

I agree, 100%.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Many years ago I decided that I wanted to work in federal politics. I went to uni, studied Politics, philosophy, political philosophy, law ethics and got involved with political organisations.

What I learned that the ideal of politics "the battle of ideas" is more the 'battle of idiots". Or system is outdated, the electorate is ignorant and the politicians are self serving and media driven.


The political system in Australia is deeply flawed, and while we dont quite have someone as utterly ridiculous as Sarah Palin, it is still a system run on fear rather than insightful leadership.

Anyway, I'm gonna try not to get involved in this thread again.

53x11, I see why yo may think that but everyone seems to have a hobby of "politician bashing". I say to those people you get up there and do it yourself. It is one of the toughest jobs out their and for what they do they should get paid a lot more. They are held on every word they say. Imagine if you had that amount of scrutiny at your workplace? I doubt you would like it and I know you would of been caught out because of making mistakes.

You say Australia's voting system is flawed but I definetly think it is better than america's. I agree that the preference system does not work as it seems unfair that more people want a certain party to represent them in their elctorate but a high majority are unhappy because of preferences another party got in.

 

[Polyarmour]

Andrew Wilkie came 4th in his primary vote count in the seat of Denison with 21% of the vote. Family First, Socialist Alliance and Citizens Electoral Council preferences put him ahead of The Greens, Greens preferences put him ahead of the Liberals and Liberal preferences put him ahead Labour and he won the seat. He then went on to decide which government Australia should have by aligning himself with Labour. Not a bad effort from 4th spot!

 

[craig1985]

I can't complain, since I didn't vote. But then again I'm not an Australian citizen either.

 

[53 x 11]

53x11, I see why yo may think that but everyone seems to have a hobby of "politician bashing". I say to those people you get up there and do it yourself. It is one of the toughest jobs out their and for what they do they should get paid a lot more. They are held on every word they say. Imagine if you had that amount of scrutiny at your workplace? I doubt you would like it and I know you would of been caught out because of making mistakes.

I'm not so sure you understand what you're saying here. The whole point of our system is that we elect represented officials. Its not something ''you get up and do yourself'', we have every right to feel dissatisfied when our officials are not up to a high standard. Just as someone should do when I fail in my duties, I certainly wouldn't storm off yelling ''you do better''!

You say Australia's voting system is flawed but I definetly think it is better than america's. I agree that the preference system does not work as it seems unfair that more people want a certain party to represent them in their elctorate but a high majority are unhappy because of preferences another party got in.

Who cares if it better than another terrible system. The point is our two party system is sustained because two parties want it and the general population is kept in the dark about other systems and by their lack of self education and a useless media.

 

[eljimberino]

100 bucks says Evans votes ALP.

 

[auscyclefan94]

100 bucks says Evans votes ALP.

I wouldn't bet against you there. See me and cuddles can't agree on everything!

 

[Archibald]

I'm not so sure you understand what you're saying here. The whole point of our system is that we elect represented officials. Its not something ''you get up and do yourself'', we have every right to feel dissatisfied when our officials are not up to a high standard. Just as someone should do when I fail in my duties, I certainly wouldn't storm off yelling ''you do better''!

still, it would be far beneficial if far more people did get involved. Attend their local party meetings and have their say. Many of the ignorant would have their eyes opened. Then we'd see things working properly (or as intended) - electing representatives from "the people" instead of the small core supporters groups. Would create a system of government for the people by the people.

Who cares if it better than another terrible system. The point is our two party system is sustained because two parties want it and the general population is kept in the dark about other systems and by their lack of self education and a useless media.

completely agree

there has to be a better way, but once found, trying to get it in place will be another thing entirely...

 

[auscyclefan94]

I think if the next election is 3 years away, things will be a bit more normal in that election compared to this time

 

[auscyclefan94]

I'm not so sure you understand what you're saying here. The whole point of our system is that we elect represented officials. Its not something ''you get up and do yourself'', we have every right to feel dissatisfied when our officials are not up to a high standard. Just as someone should do when I fail in my duties, I certainly wouldn't storm off yelling ''you do better''!



Who cares if it better than another terrible system. The point is our two party system is sustained because two parties want it and the general population is kept in the dark about other systems and by their lack of self education and a useless media.

I was just making a general statement that our system is better than another countries. Don't cut my head off! You hardly have the amount of scrutiny in your job in comparison to politicians. I personally don't understand why people are so against the two main parties. it baffles me. It also baffles me why people vote invalidly. That mentally instable nut case Latham should not be given any attention and it is criminal that Channel 9 airs such rubbish by an idiot just for ratings. Just shows what people and/or organisations do for money.

The sentence in bold does not make sense as you are saying it is right that one should be scrutinised for not doing there job well and then say you would not scrutinise another for not doing there job well.