Worlds 2018 teaser

[More Strides than Rides]

It was only a few months ago, but what was the length and gradient in Rio?

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Re:

Sallanches.

Côte de Domancy is 2,7k. But of course steeper.

Let's put things into perspective here. Duitama was 18km long and had an elevation gain of 455m (albeit at 2500m of altitute).

That was a war. Olano, Indurain and Pantani made up the podium.

Here we're talking about a climb with 410m of elevation? The only thing saving us from this becoming another Duitama is the altitude not being the craziest. Thank god.

http://altimetriascolombia.blogspot.de/2015/01/el-cogollo-el-alto-del-mundial-de.html

According to this article by a Colombian guy who seems to know a lot about these climbs and actually rode a bike on them, one round had an elevation gain of 341m. Still a lot and yeah, the altitude was crazy. El Cogollo is a beast, just look at the gradients. And on the downhill they reached over 100 kms/h.

 

[Durden93]

Rohregger was talking about two climbs. The second one could be to Hungerburg or a part of it. It's a shorter and steeper climb. My guess is that UCI only wants one climb.

6,9k of climbing should be the longest climb in the history of the WRR. Cogollo was 4,2k, Hohe Acht 5k.

Which WC was Hohe Acht? I tried searching, was it Stuttgart?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Hohe Acht is the long uphill section of the Nürburgring.

Anyway, what's so unacceptably wrong with another Duitama? It's not like we get that type of Worlds often. Certainly not as often as we get a crapfest like Zolder or København (I will reserve judgment on Doha until it's actually happened). I've always thought the Worlds are like a sixth monument, so that's how they should be - varying of course in style, and Roubaix is hard to replicate, but every type of rider has a Monument they can win as long as they're good enough. A pure climber can win Lombardia if they're savvy enough, a pure sprinter can win Sanremo if they're durable enough. If you're not durable enough to get over those climbs, or if you're not tough enough to manage those flats, then you don't deserve considering in the Worlds for the simple fact that these are to crown, theoretically and with regards to one-day racing at least, the best cyclist in the World.

I'd rather not have a Worlds that's so difficult we don't get the opportunity of racing like at Lombardia or the Olympics in Rio, but I'd also rather not have one that's so easy that riders who couldn't get over the Poggio are able to contest it, and if we're having World Championships that total one-trick ponies like Kittel are contenders for every few years, I can't see why the pure climbers can't have one once in 23 years.

 

[Netserk]

To be fair to Zolder and København, they were both won by a monument winner, unlike Firenze and Mendrisio (and Duitama)

 

[Libertine Seguros]

This is true, but they didn't have to show the versatility that they showed to win those monuments to win those races, and if they had those editions of the Worlds wouldn't face the kind of enduring criticism that they have done. With those races, there's next to no action and then with the possibilities for a crash you're left with the very real possibility that there could be a winner who's going to be taking the rainbow stripes off the back in 1km climbs in minor races. And monument or no monument, I'd still argue to this day and til I'm blue in the face that Cuddles' Classics palmarès knocks spots off Cav's. No, Flèche is not equal to Sanremo, and theoretically their Worlds wins are identical (although I will remember Mendrisio much more fondly), but all those top 10s at Liège and Lombardia as well as further podiums at Flèche are more to me than a couple of wins in KBK and the S**********s.

The other issue is that of course, the Worlds changes course every year and even when it goes back to a previously used location, like København itself, Nürburgring, Verona or Valkenburg, it's often with enough years between that the field starting the race is totally different. The course only has the one chance to make an impression, whereas if we have a sucky race at a race that takes place every year, we don't keep the bad editions in our head for so long unless they're proper Tour de Suisse 2009 level bad.

 

[Durden93]

Re:

Hohe Acht is the long uphill section of the Nürburgring.

Anyway, what's so unacceptably wrong with another Duitama? It's not like we get that type of Worlds often. Certainly not as often as we get a crapfest like Zolder or København (I will reserve judgment on Doha until it's actually happened). I've always thought the Worlds are like a sixth monument, so that's how they should be - varying of course in style, and Roubaix is hard to replicate, but every type of rider has a Monument they can win as long as they're good enough. A pure climber can win Lombardia if they're savvy enough, a pure sprinter can win Sanremo if they're durable enough. If you're not durable enough to get over those climbs, or if you're not tough enough to manage those flats, then you don't deserve considering in the Worlds for the simple fact that these are to crown, theoretically and with regards to one-day racing at least, the best cyclist in the World.

I'd rather not have a Worlds that's so difficult we don't get the opportunity of racing like at Lombardia or the Olympics in Rio, but I'd also rather not have one that's so easy that riders who couldn't get over the Poggio are able to contest it, and if we're having World Championships that total one-trick ponies like Kittel are contenders for every few years, I can't see why the pure climbers can't have one once in 23 years.

While I agree with you, I still think that best rider of their discipline should have a chance of winning the worlds. Most WC courses are suitable for classics specialists (although less so since 2009) and punchers. I think that their should be more climber courses than pure sprinters courses, but I believe that there's a place for each. In my opinion, a route like 2012 is almost as bad as 2011. Yes, there was more action before the final laps in 2012, but realistically, I think that everyone knew the WC would come down to the final ascent of the Cauberg. I only have viewing access to the worlds since 2008, but 2008, 2009 and 2013 are the best I've seen.

 

[Netserk]

So how many extra laps of the circuit was needed for København to be good enough? The race was 266km (so a bit better than S**********s), with a circuit length of 14km. Would just one extra be enough or would it actually need to surpass Sanremo in length (so three extra laps and a total length of 308km)? Length is the only thing left for the organizers to adjust to make it more selective (and to be approved of the UCI, though perhaps that wasn't even an option). [edit: team size would have a big impact as well, but that is up to the UCI]

 

[TromleTromle]

Re:

So how many extra laps of the circuit was needed for København to be good enough? The race was 266km (so a bit better than S**********s), with a circuit length of 14km. Would just one extra be enough or would it actually need to surpass Sanremo in length (so three extra laps and a total length of 308km)? Length is the only thing left for the organizers to adjust to make it more selective (and to be approved of the UCI, though perhaps that wasn't even an option). [edit: team size would have a big impact as well, but that is up to the UCI]

Copenhagen was stillborn - as the event should take place in Vejle for a proper selective course.
But he politics and an incompetent tourist organization only had Copenhagen in mid.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Not putting the feedzone on the toughest uphill section of the whole course would have been a good start.

 

[Netserk]

Okay, I didn't know that, I couldn't see the feedzone from where I was standing

 

[Durden93]

Re:

So how many extra laps of the circuit was needed for København to be good enough? The race was 266km (so a bit better than S**********s), with a circuit length of 14km. Would just one extra be enough or would it actually need to surpass Sanremo in length (so three extra laps and a total length of 308km)? Length is the only thing left for the organizers to adjust to make it more selective (and to be approved of the UCI, though perhaps that wasn't even an option). [edit: team size would have a big impact as well, but that is up to the UCI]

[/quote

Copenhagen wasn't a San Remo type course, not even close. The Y axis on that bar is misleading, change values to range from 0 to 200 and the course appears the way it was, pan flat. Seriously, the toughest obstacle gains what, 30 vertical meters? Come on. I don't hate Copenhagen as much as some here but there's a big difference between the Poggio and any of these climbs. I also haven't even mentioned the Poggio's technical descent, which provides a great launching pad for late attacks.

 

[Netserk]

In most parts of Denmark, hills don't get (much) more difficult than that.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

In most parts of Denmark, hills don't get (much) more difficult than that.

Hmm. I could mention many places which have decently more difficult hills than those.

 

[Durden93]

Re: Re:

In most parts of Denmark, hills don't get (much) more difficult than that.

Hmm. I could mention many places which have decently more difficult hills than those.

Yep, Valgren won a stage of the rundt on what I remember being a nice hill/climb.

 

[TromleTromle]

Re: Re:

In most parts of Denmark, hills don't get (much) more difficult than that.

Hmm. I could mention many places which have decently more difficult hills than those.

Yep, Valgren won a stage of the rundt on what I remember being a nice hill/climb.

Vejle, Kiddesvej - 450 m 11,1%

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

In most parts of Denmark, hills don't get (much) more difficult than that.

Hmm. I could mention many places which have decently more difficult hills than those.

Yep, Valgren won a stage of the rundt on what I remember being a nice hill/climb.

Vejle, Kiddesvej - 450 m 11,1%

Yes, anybody (at least in DK) knows that, Im talking about climbs and hilly terrain (more 'hilly' than in CPH 2011 at least) in Jutland in general. Pretty varied terrain. Take Rebild, SIlkeborg and Vejle as an example.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Come on, someone like Cav, who has been dominating the field for multiple years and is arguably the greatest ever in the discipline, deserves to be a world champion much more than someone like Costa or Kwiat. Sure a worlds where Cav can win is gonna be hella boring, but sprints are a big part of cycling and most terrain is flat, so it's only right that those guys get a course every once in a while. A five year gap since the last sprinters' course is indeed a bit too short, but if you want a race to be won by a hard man who is showing high levels of endurance, we have the monuments for that. World championships should reward the best in the peloton, not just entertaining riders

Imagine someone like Oli Zaugg wearing the stripes for a year

 

[TromleTromle]

Re:

Come on, someone like Cav, who has been dominating the field for multiple years and is arguably the greatest ever in the discipline, deserves to be a world champion much more than someone like Costa or Kwiat. Sure a worlds where Cav can win is gonna be hella boring, but sprints are a big part of cycling and most terrain is flat, so it's only right that those guys get a course every once in a while. A five year gap since the last sprinters' course is indeed a bit too short, but if you want a race to be won by a hard man who is showing high levels of endurance, we have the monuments for that. World championships should reward the best in the peloton, not just entertaining riders

Imagine someone like Oli Zaugg wearing the stripes for a year

Cav the greatest ever??? Oh my oh my!

He was cat among pigeons in the worst generation of sprinters ever. His 2016 is the first racing year where I hold him in high regard.

 

[OlavEH]

I'm actually looking more forward to 2018 than next years Worlds on home soil in Norway. Based on the rumours so far, it will be the toughest (and best) course in 20+ years, though Mendrisio in 2009 were actually pretty good. Finally a course where more pure climbers actually have a chance of winning, and where you won't see any "Freire-type" riders in the final.

 

[KyoGrey]

Cavendish is the prototype of rider who should never win a World Championship.

An uni-dimensional sprinter, who has repeatedly been caught hanging to cars to avoid out of control in stage races, digraceful that he is in the palmarés of the RACE which has traditionally rewarded the most complete Rider over a mixed parcours.

And dont start with Cipollini, because he was a trillion times a more complete rider than Cavendish.

 

[hrotha]

I don't believe in WC courses tailored for every kind of specialist out there, but especially not when the only kind of specialist who gets tailored WC courses are pure sprinters. And no, not even Duitama was a course for pure climbers.

Cavendish was merely the most decent world champion we could have got out of the Copenhagen sprint finish. Doesn't mean he should have won a WC.

 

[Netserk]

Goss (the 2011 version) would have been a worthy world champion as well.

 

[hrotha]

Yeah, but he would have been a Vainšteins at most. :\

 

[TromleTromle]

Let's bump this one a bit

Just incoming: https://twitter.com/LasterketaBurua/status/818414526542573568

last two laps include a murito