Worlds

[Balleballe]

It's fair enough. Those countries have not performed well enough over 2/3 to 3/4 of the season. they don't deserve those extra places.

I see your point, but the Norwegian ranking points come from only two riders: Edvald Boasson Hagen and Thor Hushovd.

Behind those two the results are very poor. Norway can't even send nine riders who can complete the race. But it could be a good help for Edvald. He can actually be a dark horse for the win.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I see your point, but the Norwegian ranking points come from only two riders: Edvald Boasson Hagen and Thor Hushovd.

Behind those two the results are very poor. Norway can't even send nine riders who can complete the race. But it could be a good help for Edvald. He can actually be a dark horse for the win.

Yeah, i agree with you that it's a shame with countries like Holand and France who will have more likely chance of doing something than Norway being only allowed less riders (not sure the amount) than Norway.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Had gesink not crashed out of the tour and been injured for FW, I think holland would have had enough points to beat norway. ahwell

 

[Andy99]

After this weeks Tour of Poland it's clear that Norway defends its top 10 position in the world ranking, and can send nine riders to the worlds.

The huge cycling-nation Norway can therefore send more riders than the smaller nations of France and the Netherlands. I love this ranking system.

It's not rocket science is it?! The system is perfectly fair...and just goes to show the lack of talent countries such as France now have. (and I would guess we could question how many of the French 'Pros' actually deserve to be so!)

It emphasises what great, consistent performers Boassen Hagen, Hushovd, Arvensen et al have been. Between them they have racked up more points than, god knows how many French pros. The French riders can only blame themselves!

 

[Bala Verde]

Apparently Norway is only going to send 7 riders:

Thor Hushovd; Edvald Boasson Hagen; Kurt-Asle Arvesen; Gabriel Rasch, Lars Petter Nordhaug; Stian Remme and Fredrik Wilmann.

 

[Henrik]

Norway will send nine riders, I'm almost 100% sure of it. And even more so after some comments in the media today.

 

[ak-zaaf]

as i posted somewhere else: if andy schleck was a country, he could bring 8 others along because he has enough points by himself to be placed 10th.
that’s just not right.
but if you let the best rider from a country gain points for that country, this is the way it is.
ebh's points have no influence. i made the ranking again, but only counting the first and fifth placed rider of a country.

1. spain 672
2. italy 358
3. luxemburg 334
4. czech 310
5. britain 306
6. aussie 299
7. germany 274
8. belgium 237
9. russia 236
10. norway 216
11. usa 159
12. holland 151
13. france 139

not too much difference. one 'superstar' is enough to get you 9 places.

 

[uphillstruggle]

I'm not necessarily saying this is the way it should be but in this system at least the superstars who are possible winners have the support of a nine man team.

I bet Cav and Wiggins make up pretty much all of the UK's UCI points this year.

 

[Bala Verde]

as i posted somewhere else: if andy schleck was a country, he could bring 8 others along because he has enough points by himself to be placed 10th.
that’s just not right.
but if you let the best rider from a country gain points for that country, this is the way it is.
ebh's points have no influence. i made the ranking again, but only counting the first and fifth placed rider of a country.

1. spain 672
2. italy 358
3. luxemburg 334
4. czech 310
5. britain 306
6. aussie 299
7. germany 274
8. belgium 237
9. russia 236
10. norway 216
11. usa 159
12. holland 151
13. france 139

not too much difference. one 'superstar' is enough to get you 9 places.

I agree, these are the rules, and that's what they need to play by (I am dutch btw)

Ak-zaaf. What would be the ranking if you only used the fifth rider, like in a TTT?

 

[issoisso]

as i posted somewhere else: if andy schleck was a country, he could bring 8 others along because he has enough points by himself to be placed 10th.
that’s just not right.
but if you let the best rider from a country gain points for that country, this is the way it is.
ebh's points have no influence. i made the ranking again, but only counting the first and fifth placed rider of a country.

1. spain 672
2. italy 358
3. luxemburg 334
4. czech 310
5. britain 306
6. aussie 299
7. germany 274
8. belgium 237
9. russia 236
10. norway 216
11. usa 159
12. holland 151
13. france 139

not too much difference. one 'superstar' is enough to get you 9 places.

Basically everyone involved has criticized the system, but the UCI won't change it.

It's MORONIC the way it is.

If a country has 9 good riders, they get to take about 3.
If a country has 1 great rider and 8 who aren't fit to be water carriers in pro continental teams, they get to take 9.

Bringing back the old UCI ranking (= current cqranking) would be quite fair...but the UCI don't want to hear about it.

For reference, with the old, good, ranking, this would be the situation:

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/cqRankingCountry.asp

 

[ingsve]

I'm pretty sure there will be pressure on UCI to do some changes to the system. Perhaps a ranking that combines the PT ranking with the continental rankings as an overall world ranking.

 

[ak-zaaf]

Ak-zaaf. What would be the ranking if you only used the fifth rider, like in a TTT?

you're lucky, since it's 'komkommertijd' at work i have plenty of time to look these things up

fifth rider in uci ranking:

1. italy - franco pellizotti* 156 points or (leaving out di luca and rebellin) michele scarponi 139 points

2. spain - toni colom* 145 points or (leaving out astarloza and colom) carlos sastre 134 points

3. aussie - simon gerrans 80 points
4. belgium - johan van summeren 50 points
5. germany - jens voigt 42 points
6. france - pierrick fedrigo 32 points
7. russia - yuri trofimov 18 points
8. usa - geoge hincapie 9 points
9. holland - stef clement 6 points
10. britain - jeremy hunt 2 points
11. luxemburg - zero points
. czech - zero points
. norway - zero points

 

[ashortcyclist]

USA 9-member team

With all the trash-talk about Lance's return to cycling, here's a positive point - his third place at the tour has given the USA a 9-member team at the worlds, rather than the 6-member team in 2008 ... allowing 3 more US riders to compete at that elite level. So another good thing his return to racing has brought to the US cycling community. (And since he hasn't indicated a desire to participate --- that's 4 other riders).

 

[ak-zaaf]

With all the trash-talk about Lance's return to cycling, here's a positive point - his third place at the tour has given the USA a 9-member team at the worlds, rather than the 6-member team in 2008 ... allowing 3 more US riders to compete at that elite level. So another good thing his return to racing has brought to the US cycling community. (And since he hasn't indicated a desire to participate --- that's 4 other riders).

true. danny pate would be the 5th rider for the usa points, leaving the usa at 15th place.

should be worrying that farrar is the only one gaining points that isn't (way) over 30.

 

[Bala Verde]

you're lucky, since it's 'komkommertijd' at work i have plenty of time to look these things up

fifth rider in uci ranking:

1. italy - franco pellizotti* 156 points or (leaving out di luca and rebellin) michele scarponi 139 points

2. spain - toni colom* 145 points or (leaving out astarloza and colom) carlos sastre 134 points

3. aussie - simon gerrans 80 points
4. belgium - johan van summeren 50 points
5. germany - jens voigt 42 points
6. france - pierrick fedrigo 32 points
7. russia - yuri trofimov 18 points
8. usa - geoge hincapie 9 points
9. holland - stef clement 6 points
10. britain - jeremy hunt 2 points
11. luxemburg - zero points
. czech - zero points
. norway - zero points

I love komkommertijd at work. Makes you realize there are some really important things out there that require your full attention, like ranking countries by their 5th rider

Nonetheless, I might have erroneously assumed that you had kept a spreadsheet with all these nerdy details (like I sometimes do)...

Interesting to see what the effects are of the 'TTT/5th rider' rule per country. In this case, it'll filter out the superstar and shows the strenght of a country calculated by its 'worst' rider. In a way, it demonstrates the depth of a country's selection.

On the other hand, what if you are the superstar in a country with few other good racers? You are basically screwed.

 

[Loddet]

I do not the think that the rules are problematic. Off course, it is sad for France and the Netherlands that they are not able to send 9 riders, but that is because the countries are not good enough.

The best ranked Dutch rider is Gesink, ranked 28. The best French guy is Chavanel ranked 38. That is just not good enough, and it should be a wake up call for the two countries.

 

[ak-zaaf]

I do not the think that the rules are problematic. Off course, it is sad for France and the Netherlands that they are not able to send 9 riders, but that is because the countries are not good enough.

The best ranked Dutch rider is Gesink, ranked 28. The best French guy is Chavanel ranked 38. That is just not good enough, and it should be a wake up call for the two countries.

almost 15% of the 221 riders in the uci world ranking is french.
2 of them are norwegian.
norway gets 9 tickets, france 6.
if you want to base the number of tickets on the strenght of a whole nation, this doesn't make any sense.

 

[Loddet]

almost 15% of the 221 riders in the uci world ranking is french.
2 of them are norwegian.
norway gets 9 tickets, france 6.
if you want to base the number of tickets on the strenght of a whole nation, this doesn't make any sense.

No one can deny that France is a much bigger cycling nation than Norway. However, Norway, with Hushovd and EBH, has a greater chance to win the rainbow jersey. Is not that the point?

Lets for instance say that the course was suited for a sprinter like Cav. Because there are only two guys from GB that have captured PT-points, should the never get a real good shot to become world champ?

The whole meaning about the worlds is to win. Because Norway and GB has riders that ahve a fair chance of winning, I think it is fair that they have 9 riders in their squads.

 

[badboyberty]

almost 15% of the 221 riders in the uci world ranking is french.
2 of them are norwegian.
norway gets 9 tickets, france 6.
if you want to base the number of tickets on the strenght of a whole nation, this doesn't make any sense.

I think the problem is French and Dutch pro-cycling are having year long Komkommertijd and the riders need to pull their heads out and actually win something. Why give a nation 9 starting spots if none of their riders are going to try to win?

If a country has 15% of the riders but only 3% of the points the problem is probably not be the scoring system.

 

[Aapjes]

I think the problem is French and Dutch pro-cycling are having year long Komkommertijd and the riders need to pull their heads out and actually win something. Why give a nation 9 starting spots if none of their riders are going to try to win?

You are forgetting that cycling is not an individual sport. There are many domestiques who only have modest wins, since they mostly work hard for riders from other countries. What I like about 'country' races like the Worlds is that it completely shakes up the teams. Domestiques become leaders and leaders become domestiques. I like to see teams of 'second-rate' riders try to outwit the teams with many stars, while the latter are trying to work out which star they are going to ride for.

If a country has 15% of the riders but only 3% of the points the problem is probably not be the scoring system.

But for some countries, the large majority of the points are earned by one rider. The points total then doesn't reflect the strength of the country, but of the individual rider. Why should a strong rider get to take 8 other riders, if 4 of those have zero chance of even finishing the race in the group, let alone win.

 

[Idiotwind]

they could make the selection system even more hilarious and simply take the top 200 from the world ranking and invite them to the worlds.

More seriously though, why don't they include races from the end of last season in this years ranking?

 

[Bala Verde]

bump.......

 

[Bala Verde]

Amador is kept from participating in Mendrisio, and two other team mates apparently because the Costa Rican National Cycling Bund has insufficient funds. It is said 2500E for the three of them, including travel and lodging expenses ... Maybe Caisse can cough up some dough...

They are still trying to get Gregory Brenes there with help of his team BCR-Pizza Hut.

Since F. Schleck is injured and therefore misses the WC, Lux now have 4 riders to fill up their 9 places. Andy Schleck (Saxo Bank), Kim Kirchen (Columbia), Laurent Didier (Designa Køkken) en Jempy Drucker (Differdange).

 

[issoisso]

I don't think I've ever been this excited for the Worlds in my life. And I have no idea why.

If Gilbert wins I'll do cartwheels.

 

[ak-zaaf]

time for another shortlist?
-gilbert
-cunego
-gerrans
-valverde
...

please add.