Wout van Aert

[therealthing]

Most nuclear, alien edition of TA ever?

 

[F_Cance]

beating the best sprinters
climbing with the best climbers
beating the worlds best TT rider who took it easy on the road stages

all in the same week.

 

[luckyboy]

Yeah this race was just stupid. Wonder what the latest WADA/CADF testing numbers will be aftere they barely did anything last year.

 

[Hayabusa]

Jumbo Visma have clearly upped their program!

 

[GuyIncognito]

Goes hard every day for GC and sprints. Still rides the TT route faster than Cancellara's best time in 5 attempts

Totally believable

 

[the delgados]

Ladies and gentlemen, I think it's safe to say we have jumped the shark.
Enjoy your evening, folks!

 

[zlev11]

yeah, this guy is ridiculous. and now he's probably "too big to fail" (test positive).

 

[saganftw]

im getting more and more convinced each day dumoulin took the break because he saw where this was going and he didnt have the balls to go this far

 

[Põhja Konn]

• Wins bunch sprint
• Ends in top 10 on a MTF at 15k long climb against a TDF-quality field, while losing only peanuts to everyone bar the reigning Tour winner
• Beating reigning world TT champ (who had until today looked near unbeatable force of nature against the clock himself) in a pan flat ITT

All the above was done by the same rider during a single one-week stage race.

I think it shoudn't have trouble qualifying for this particular thread:
https://forum.cyclingnews.com/threads/most-memorable-doped-perfomances.11997/

For me WVA-s performance is the hardest out of the trio of him, MVDP and Pogacar to gauge without adding doping factor into equation. Maybe my understanding of specialisation in modern peloton and factors that determine it is too limited and simplistic, and that factor of specialisation itself too ingrained into my understanding of the sport to properly evaluate what I am seeing these days. The way things stand, performance like that just seems far too good to be true for my eyes.

In the end this results in some conflicting emotions. I watch it all in awe and amazement, while at the same time I shake my head in disbelief.

 

[BlueRoads]

im getting more and more convinced each day dumoulin took the break because he saw where this was going and he didnt have the balls to go this far

He didn't have the balls? Weird expression in this case.

 

[BlueRoads]

• Wins bunch sprint
• Ends in top 10 on a MTF at 15k long climb against a TDF-quality field, while losing only peanuts to everyone bar the reigning Tour winner
• Beating reigning world TT champ (who had until today looked near unbeatable force of nature against the clock himself) in a pan flat ITT

All the above was done by the same rider during a single one-week stage race.

I think it shoudn't have trouble qualifying for this particular thread:
https://forum.cyclingnews.com/threads/most-memorable-doped-perfomances.11997/

For me WVA-s performance is the hardest out of the trio of him, MVDP and Pogacar to gauge without adding doping factor into equation. Maybe my understanding of specialisation in modern peloton and factors that determine it is too limited and simplistic, and that factor of specialisation itself too ingrained into my understanding of the sport to properly evaluate what I am seeing these days. The way things stand, performance like that just seems far too good to be true for my eyes.

In the end this results in some conflicting emotions. I watch it all in awe and amazement, while at the same time I shake my head in disbelief.

I agree with much of what you're saying. For me it's hard, because I like van Aert. I want him to win, to be successful. But this doesn't really make me feel good. Even taking into equation that many others are probably not clean, either.

To me van Aert and Pogacar are just over the top, van der Poel is very close.
Alaphilippe in comparison average and explainable, but still a bit crazy.
Roglic, with all his strength, looks human when compared.

I wonder how the season will go on.

 

[Cookster15]

Plus WvA is still only 26 so knowing he's only been riding the road for maybe two years makes the future potential rather astonishing. According to Wiki his weight is 78Kg! That explains his sprinting ability and his TT power but it also means he is climbing with huge sustained wattage. I scratch my head. . A freak of nature or a freak of doping I just hope time will tell us the truth on him.

 

[SantiBotero]

I'm starting to imagine a scenario where WvA winning all stages of the Tour de France. 21/21.

 

[the delgados]

im getting more and more convinced each day dumoulin took the break because he saw where this was going and he didnt have the balls to go this far

That's an interesting observation. Guy didn't take long to exit the sport after reaching the pinnacle.
Same goes for the sprinter who called it a day before his time. The name is escaping me at the moment, but I'm sure you know who I mean. I am not by any means drawing any conclusions, but the quick downward trajectory was surprising to say the least.

 

[Ripper]

That's an interesting observation. Guy didn't take long to exit the sport after reaching the pinnacle.
Same goes for the sprinter who called it a day before his time. The name is escaping me at the moment, but I'm sure you know who I mean. I am not by any means drawing any conclusions, but the quick downward trajectory was surprising to say the least.

Kittel?

 

[Red Rick]

im getting more and more convinced each day dumoulin took the break because he saw where this was going and he didnt have the balls to go this far

Was thinking a similar thing earlier as well.

Meanwhile, Van Aert. 1'30 or so faster than Froome in 2013 on Prati di Tivo right?

 

[saganftw]

I'm starting to imagine a scenario where WvA winning all stages of the Tour de France. 21/21.

thats not gonna happen so its a fine joke however other insane thing thats for sure going to happen: he will be among favourites to win every single stage, even mountain stages he should get at least 1 star

ultimately he will probably be forced to work for Roglic, so its not going to happen, but lets say roglic crashes out, he could have 21 top 10 finishes

 

[djerkson]

Plus WvA is still only 26 so knowing he's only been riding the road for maybe two years makes the future potential rather astonishing. According to Wiki his weight is 78Kg! That explains his sprinting ability and his TT power but it also means he is climbing with huge sustained wattage. I scratch my head. . A freak of nature or a freak of doping I just hope time will tell us the truth on him.

Van Aert's been doing road racing since he was a kid. Like Oliver Naesen and Tiesj Benoot were stating on Belgian television: Wout and Mathieu aren't coming from out of nowhere, they were dominating cycling ever since they started. They did the same, in cyclocross AND on the road when they were younger, dominating cycling.
Wout posts all of his data on Strava, climbs the Teide with 500 Watt every day on training. He does the same in TA and suddenly he's alien?

 

[djerkson]

That's an interesting observation. Guy didn't take long to exit the sport after reaching the pinnacle.
Same goes for the sprinter who called it a day before his time. The name is escaping me at the moment, but I'm sure you know who I mean. I am not by any means drawing any conclusions, but the quick downward trajectory was surprising to say the least.

Dumoulin couldn't handle top sports and cracked mentally. Didnt' want to be the hero and had a hard time being treated like this ever since he had won the Giro. So no.

 

[Red Rick]

Dumoulin couldn't handle top sports and cracked mentally. Didnt' want to be the hero and had a hard time being treated like this ever since he had won the Giro. So no.

I might have been the one that was too much for him. In fact, the fact he was already struggling makes it an even more plausible theory.

 

[Rackham]

In the end this results in some conflicting emotions. I watch it all in awe and amazement, while at the same time I shake my head in disbelief.

Just wait for the Tour de France, i.e. I reckon it's going to be 1997 levels of amazement.

Maybe it's just me, but one of "the" most egregious parts of the Lance story was the insinuation he had some sort of special dispensation to go above & beyond the rule breaking, more so than the rest of the peloton for "business" reasons, i.e. the suspicion he was pretty much the only top rider in 1999 on EPO whilst the rest toned down their numbers after Festina. Hence why 2003 is widely regarded as one of the most exciting Tours of the past 20 years, i.e. the methods had trickled down by then & pretty much all the top guys had a similar program (transfusions etc. with in particular a blood bag on rest day or the night before a stage they targeted).

Whereas now? It seems like a total free-for-all where anyone who can afford whatever the top guys are on can join the fun. And that right there is probably where this particular era of house of cards will come tumbling down, i.e. some desperate idiot is going to make a mistake (hello Festina 1998, or Landis 2006) & the scandal will reset the levels for a few years... until something else comes along & the whole cycle starts anew.

That's how I see it anyway.

 

[the delgados]

Dumoulin couldn't handle top sports and cracked mentally. Didnt' want to be the hero and had a hard time being treated like this ever since he had won the Giro. So no.

Hey djerkson. I come from a country where cycling is not only an afterthought, it's not a thought. You'd pretty much have to win a grand tour to get notice.
Do you live in a country where the sport is so popular that the media pays attention to the state of Dumoulin's mental health? In Canada, news about a hockey player's mental state would be talked about in the media with such repetition that a reader would end up questioning their own mental state.
Do you have inside information about Tom? Not asking you to name names or anything, but were you part of the team which allowed you to be part of everyday interaction?
From where does the "So no" conclusion derive?

 

[djerkson]

Hey djerkson. I come from a country where cycling is not only an afterthought, it's not a thought. You'd pretty much have to win a grand tour to get notice.
Do you live in a country where the sport is so popular that the media pays attention to the state of Dumoulin's mental health? In Canada, news about a hockey player's mental state would be talked about in the media with such repetition that a reader would end up questioning their own mental state.
Do you have inside information about Tom? Not asking you to name names or anything, but were you part of the team which allowed you to be part of everyday interaction?
From where does the "So no" conclusion derive?

Yes, I'm from Belgium, cycling is very popular here, in fact it's on the same level as football. Flanders is a true 'Mekka of cycling' you might say. And I'm living close to the border with the Netherlands, very close to a small village where Dumoulin is living (Kanne, a pitoresque village quite close to the Dutch border and next to Maastricht). It was in Maastricht that Dumoulin was welcomed as a hero when he won the Giro. He stated much later that he never cared for that much (media) attention, in fact, his dream was to become a doctor. Dumoulin's very smart, one of the few cyclists who openly dared to question the World Road Championships in Qatar cos of the violation of human rights in that country. Anyway, Dumoulin has been a much debated topic in Belgium and in the Netherlands as well...The main idea is that Dumoulin probably is too soft/smart for sports on the top level. He stated that he's happier now without all the pressure. There has never been any talk about doping and so on. I hope this is a decent answer for you?

The only rider that has been contested in the last year has been Marc Hirschi. DSM wanted to get rid of him cos of 'violation of intern rules'. Seeing that he's reunited with Mauro Gianetti...not sure what to think of that.

 

[the delgados]

Thanks, djerkson, for reminding me why I would love to see a race like de Ronde in person. I got as close as Paris-Roubaix and the atmosphere was fantastic.
You (and/or the media) paints TD in a very flattering light. He seems like an awesome person. He cares about human rights; he has his mind on other things, like becoming a doctor, etc. But I don't get the "too soft/smart" part of the characterization. Who placed that label upon him, and what the hell does it mean?
Did he win the Giro and conclude that he's too soft/smart to continue? I get the part of schitting your pants in public, but what was it about winning the Giro that made him (or the media) conclude that he was too soft? Is it possible that the "too soft" part was a convenient euphemism to describe why he left the sport? If I was a life-long rider who just won the Giro, I'd be stupid to quit. Think of the amount of dollars he is kissing away. But then again, I'm way too dumb to be a doctor.

 

[masking_agent]

I agree with all that was said about Van Aert's efforts are "not normal." Even if he had an abnormally high v02 max (a la Greg LeMond back in the day) I don't think he is "paniagua." I don't believe his cyclocross racing prepared him for dominating the pro peloton as there would be a lot more dudes doing so. I think his team doctor has maybe tried a new dose of drug that is simply undetectable and is working well for he and MVP.