Zipp Firecrest Clincher

[Boeing]

"claims", c'mon dude, really? How long have we known each other? In all fairness I owned and raced on various Zipp sets, factory and custom built from '98-2004, road, track, TT's and CX. Serviced all kinds of prebuilt junk from Zipp and the usual suspects until 2010. In March of that year we had almost 20 various Zipp wheels waiting for service. Now I visit about 20 shops per week and see that nothing has changed, they're still populating large amounts hooks in the to-be-serviced area, or the blowout section on the sales floor, and nothing over the years has led me to believe that Firecrust is going to be much better than any other improvements they've claimed with their rims and hubs over the years.

Boeing, today I was at an ORBEA dealer and almost took an Orca out for a spin that was Firecrust 303 equipped just to say I rode them, but decided that it would've been a waste of my precious time, literally.

you cant be for real. talk about an elitist. Dude that is like the Rapha team offering to buy brodeal a bowl of soup and him going hungry on principal

 

[marathon marke]

I suspect that is because the fairing has a join to the alu which is potentially a weak point and that faring itself is is very light weight, as its only purpose is for aero

With a full carbon wheel the whole rim is structural

Oh yes, that makes complete sense. Thanks.

 

[fasthill]

My HP printer jammed. therefore all hp's sukit is the logic I follow here

Jamming is common to all printers but not all carbon wheels are junk. You can't seriously demand a study on every purchase decision you make, in fact, I suspect 99% of your purchasing decisions are made without relying on any studies at all. When someone tells you that because of the work they do they have seen a reasonable amount of some product that has a pattern of being junk, a rational thing to do is to accept that observation as truthful and make up your mind accordingly.

You, on the other hand, seem like someone who already made up his mind and your attempts at "refuting" someone else's experience with the rims/wheels in question is nothing but trolling.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Last year, I nearly melted a set of Enve 65 clinchers on a rapid descent.

Granted, I should not have been riding those.

From now on, if I go carbon wheels, it's tubies only. Carbon clinchers are a just a marketing concept.

My next set of wheels are Hyperons wrapped in Vittorias.

Hopefully on a stainless steel Pelizzoli Aeta.

 

[richwagmn]

So what about the other big rim/wheel makers? Mavic, Hed, DT, Reynolds, others. As bad as Zipp, better?

 

[Bustedknuckle]

So what about the other big rim/wheel makers? Mavic, Hed, DT, Reynolds, others. As bad as Zipp, better?

Problem with most is they offer wheels with really crappy hubs. mavic being the worse. Their 2 pawl rear hub design is 2 decades old, poor, cheap, low end parts(plastic). DT, Reynolds and Enve at least use great hubs, mostly DT.

 

[blutto]

you cant be for real. talk about an elitist. Dude that is like the Rapha team offering to buy brodeal a bowl of soup and him going hungry on principal

...and the award for hitting the most number of birds with one post..err..stone goes to Boeing...

...niiiice shooting dude!!!..

Cheers

blutto

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

So what about the other big rim/wheel makers? Mavic, Hed, DT, Reynolds, others. As bad as Zipp, better?

Mavic is the worst by a long shot. HED is just a little better than Zipp, only because they've actually improved their hubs over the years which used to be the worst in the industry, I mean the WORST, but they still have problems, been about a half dozen people just on this forum complaining about their hubs. The Carbon clincher from HED, the JET still uses that same old dated tech by using an alloy rims and capping it with the carbon fairing, hidden nipples, yuck. At least the breaking is good with the JET, and they hold up to larger riders. HED Stingers are really nice race wheels actually, but they're tubular and I forgot this thread is for people wanting deep section carbon clinchers for more of a vanity thing than practicality. Reynolds and DT have better hubs, but their problem is also the hidden nipple, have to remove the tire for any kind of truing. Easton are good wheels if they don't break. Their hub is designed so that the spokes are actually reversed, thread into the hub. Dumb, if you pop a spoke on those it's probably the most PITA to deal with and you'll be minus a wheel for a while.

 

[andy1234]

I have done 10s of thousands of miles on both Mavic Cosmic Carbone clinchers and zipp 404s tubs, and never had any problem with either.

Its hardly surprising there are more Mavic and Zipp returns and repairs, as they outsell any other brand by a long way.

 

[karlboss]

Mavic is the worst by a long shot. HED is just a little better than Zipp, only because they've actually improved their hubs over the years which used to be the worst in the industry, I mean the WORST, but they still have problems, been about a half dozen people just on this forum complaining about their hubs. The Carbon clincher from HED, the JET still uses that same old dated tech by using an alloy rims and capping it with the carbon fairing, hidden nipples, yuck. At least the breaking is good with the JET, and they hold up to larger riders. HED Stingers are really nice race wheels actually, but they're tubular and I forgot this thread is for people wanting deep section carbon clinchers for more of a vanity thing than practicality. Reynolds and DT have better hubs, but their problem is also the hidden nipple, have to remove the tire for any kind of truing. Easton are good wheels if they don't break. Their hub is designed so that the spokes are actually reversed, thread into the hub. Dumb, if you pop a spoke on those it's probably the most PITA to deal with and you'll be minus a wheel for a while.

I think there is going to be something of a swing to deep clinchers with alloy braking rims like the jets. Some riders with HTC and Sky were riding them in 2011, notably Tony Martin to win the worlds tt. Will be interesting to see if manufacturers accommodate this and get rid of hidden nipples, attempt to make the carbon structural, and get the weight down.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I admit that I don't see the benefit to full carbon clinchers, though I own two sets. They're nice and everything, but the braking can be mediocre and the weight savings are virtually nil. The only advantage really is aesthetic.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I think there is going to be something of a swing to deep clinchers with alloy braking rims like the jets. Some riders with HTC and Sky were riding them in 2011, notably Tony Martin to win the worlds tt. Will be interesting to see if manufacturers accommodate this and get rid of hidden nipples, attempt to make the carbon structural, and get the weight down.

I don't think we're going to see the HED approach to carbon clinchers come back, alloy rims with carbon fairing caps is so dated. There's one solution for carbon wheels to really come into their own whether they're tubular or clincher, all signs point to disk brakes, and they're coming.

 

[andy1234]

I don't think we're going to see the HED approach to carbon clinchers come back, alloy rims with carbon fairing caps is so dated. There's one solution for carbon wheels to really come into their own whether they're tubular or clincher, all signs point to disk brakes, and they're coming.

+1
They will be in the pro peleton within a couple of years.

 

[bladerunner]

Yep, really looking forward to using some disc brakes with some lovely carbon rims that will not be ruined by some cork-pads every time I need to brake.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Well, I took a hard look at Firecrust today. Put it in the stand and found that Zipp is still doing the same crappy job and entirely over hyping this whole Firecrap crap. When I spun it little black bits of bladder flew all over the place, had to grab the vacuum to clean it all up. Same crappy soft carbon that Zipp is notorious for, same drilled spoke holes, same tiny little bearings in their hubs to sacrifice durability for weight savings. I couldn't recommend these to anyone, even if they were FREE!!! At least they don't do that stupid reversed half-radial pattern, they're back to normal now, but that doesn't really change my opinion about the absolute terrible quality that Zipp has been notorious for, pretty much even before they sold out to ScRAM a few years ago. I think their quality of all their components went seriously downhill when those dimpled rims appeared which was a few years before that. Were talking about almost a decade of really bad equipment.

 

[karlboss]

I don't think we're going to see the HED approach to carbon clinchers come back, alloy rims with carbon fairing caps is so dated. There's one solution for carbon wheels to really come into their own whether they're tubular or clincher, all signs point to disk brakes, and they're coming.

Didn't mean the carbon fairing, just alloy braking. Maybe more like what mad and 360 are doing. Its a little more uci friendly. Discs on road bikes are solid though the uci isn't great with innovation. Road specific redesign, would probable make everyone happy.

 

[slartiblartfast]

I am almost ashamed to admit it after reading the last few pages of this thread, but I own a pair if Zipp 808 firecrest carbon clinchers. I use these on my TT bike for triathlon and the occasional road TT. The only training I would do with these wheels is one or two rides before each race. I got the clinchers because of paranoia about getting a flat during a long course tri and being unable to mount a spare tubular tyre. I've had them for a year and they work for me. I think the aero and cross wind benefits of this rim profile are real.

I haven't had any reliability problems. I weigh 68kg (150 pounds) so I am not exactly loading up these wheels. Likewise there isn't that much braking to do on most tri courses so overheating is unlikely to be an issue. On my road bike I am sticking with alloy clinchers.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

I am almost ashamed to admit it after reading the last few pages of this thread, but I own a pair if Zipp 808 firecrest carbon clinchers. I use these on my TT bike for triathlon and the occasional road TT. The only training I would do with these wheels is one or two rides before each race. I got the clinchers because of paranoia about getting a flat during a long course tri and being unable to mount a spare tubular tyre. I've had them for a year and they work for me. I think the aero and cross wind benefits of this rim profile are real.

I haven't had any reliability problems. I weigh 68kg (150 pounds) so I am not exactly loading up these wheels. Likewise there isn't that much braking to do on most tri courses so overheating is unlikely to be an issue. On my road bike I am sticking with alloy clinchers.

I wouldn't worry about it too much at your weight and frequency of use. You're 50lbs less than the guy who started this thread, and you're wheels get used for very specific events, I believe his intentions were to use them quite a bit more often, which is a big no-no.

 

[simo1733]

I wouldn't worry about it too much at your weight and frequency of use. You're 50lbs less than the guy who started this thread, and you're wheels get used for very specific events, I believe his intentions were to use them quite a bit more often, which is a big no-no.

I have 404 clinchers and both of them have debris rattling around inside the rims.Worse than that is the front wheel which makes a loud click once every rotation.If I spin it up by hand its ok but when I ride, click click click.
I have removed the wheel magnet and valve extender but it still clicks

 

[STODRR]

I have 404 clinchers and both of them have debris rattling around inside the rims.Worse than that is the front wheel which makes a loud click once every rotation.If I spin it up by hand its ok but when I ride, click click click.
I have removed the wheel magnet and valve extender but it still clicks

Sounds like the valve stem is hitting the carbon when there is a weight load on it every rotation. I know that happens on tubulars, although I have not heard it on clinchers but I don't own any deep dish clinchers.

 

[marathon marke]

Sounds like the valve stem is hitting the carbon when there is a weight load on it every rotation. I know that happens on tubulars, although I have not heard it on clinchers but I don't own any deep dish clinchers.

Sounds like what's happening to me too. Just wrap some teflon pipe-thread (plumbers) tape around the stem where it contacts the rim.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Sounds like what's happening to me too. Just wrap some teflon pipe-thread (plumbers) tape around the stem where it contacts the rim.

Or a small length of electrical tape, wee hole, valve stem thru it, wrapped onto the rim...

 

[Boeing]

Or a small length of electrical tape, wee hole, valve stem thru it, wrapped onto the rim...

you mean over the top outer rim or inner rim tape area?

I was going to try a rubber cable donut over the valve stem rolled down flush with rim.... thoughts?

 

[simo1733]

The plumbers tape hasn't fixed it but maybe i need to use more.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

The plumbers tape hasn't fixed it but maybe i need to use more.

If it's not the valve stem then it's the bits of broken up pieces of bladder rattling around inside the rim. Take your tires off and rim tape, get a flashlight and some fine point needle nose pliers and pull that crap out of there. It'll take some time and patience. That's Zipp QC for you, give them thousands for a wheel set and you have to do all the dirty work that they should have done at the factory. Typical Zipp.