Zirbel

[Kennf1]

B sample not yet back, but it appears Zirbel is the third cyclist to test positive for DHEA this year (after Hamilton and Kenny Williams). Zirbel denies knowingly taking it. Kenny Williams admitted it. Hamilton admitted, but said it was for depression.

So what's the deal? From what little I've read, no one seems to think it is truly performance enhancing.

 

[Oncearunner8]

B sample not yet back, but it appears Zirbel is the third cyclist to test positive for DHEA this year (after Hamilton and Kenny Williams). Zirbel denies knowingly taking it. Kenny Williams admitted it. Hamilton admitted, but said it was for depression.

So what's the deal? From what little I've read, no one seems to think it is truly performance enhancing.

something is up! I asked the question regarding DHEA's true performace or not, in another area/message board.

There has to be something to it.

I hope the hamburgular does not chime in.....

 

[pedaling squares]

From brief research I learned that DHEA can preserve lean muscle mass and increase stamina, so if that is true I can see the advantage one would get from it. I'd like to see a cyclist come up with a better response than "I have more integrity than that", which we have seen so many times in the past. If you are innocent surely you can come up with a reasonable excuse why DHEA would be found in your urine.

 

[BroDeal]

something is up! I asked the question regarding DHEA's true performace or not, in another area/message board.

There has to be something to it.

The stuff I read indicates that--if it does anything at all--it is most beneficial for older athletes. I would not be surprised if the effects for younger athletes is negligible.

It does seem to be a pattern now: U.S. riders getting busted for DHEA. I would rather see riders get busted for using "real" drugs.

 

[blackcat]

if TZ was charging, Bissell are now batting two and 0.

wonder what 131313 has to say?

there was a guy on the Kirk O'Bee thread, was not entirely confident in some of the Bissell guys. I like Bissell myself, some talented kiwis they have, I thought that much of their squad could be in the Protour if they were charging on Fuentes programs.

 

[blackcat]

The stuff I read indicates that--if it does anything at all--it is most beneficial for older athletes. I would not be surprised if the effects for younger athletes is negligible.

It does seem to be a pattern now: U.S. riders getting busted for DHEA. I would rather see riders get busted for using "real" drugs.

Mark MCGwire in his season's run was on this I remember.

edit: McGwire was on andro

http://biopsychiatry.com/dhea/legal.html

 

[craig1985]

if TZ was charging, Bissell are now batting two and 0.

wonder what 131313 has to say?

there was a guy on the Kirk O'Bee thread, was not entirely confident in some of the Bissell guys. I like Bissell myself, some talented kiwis they have, I thought that much of their squad could be in the Protour if they were charging on Fuentes programs.

TBF, Ben Jacques-Mayne is a member of Bike Pure, and for some reason I thought Zirbel was a member as well, or maybe imy memory is playing tricks on me.

 

[131313]

if TZ was charging, Bissell are now batting two and 0.

wonder what 131313 has to say?

I'm going to be brutally honest and confess that I don't know what to say. He says he didn't take anything and I have to believe him.

I'm also getting to a point in life where I realize you don't always know what you think you know. I think he realizes that at this point his closest friends are looking at him sideways. That's how it goes. I'll also say that this is a totally different situation from O'Positive, on many levels.

That's really all I can say at this point.

 

[BroDeal]

Mark MCGwire in his season's run was on this I remember.

edit: McGwire was on andro

http://biopsychiatry.com/dhea/legal.html

DHEA converts into Androstenedione, which is what McGwire was using. So it is like two steps removed from being testosterone.

We need real, first hand data. Who here is using this stuff and can give us a first hand report?? I'll volunteer to test the it starting in January.

 

[BroDeal]

I'm going to be brutally honest and confess that I don't know what to say. He says he didn't take anything and I have to believe him.

I would not be surprised if it turns out to be tainted supplements.

 

[blackcat]

I'm going to be brutally honest and confess that I don't know what to say. He says he didn't take anything and I have to believe him.

I'm also getting to a point in life where I realize you don't always know what you think you know. I think he realizes that at this point his closest friends are looking at him sideways. That's how it goes. I'll also say that this is a totally different situation from O'Positive, on many levels.

That's really all I can say at this point.

fingers crossed. I like his story. And I know he would not be on all the gear the guys he was up against at World's chrono were. And why should not he be allowed to compete on equal terms?

I like the tale, and would be disappointed if he was not clean, but have a look at the competition, I appreciate the dilemma and question he was faced with.

 

[craig1985]

So by the space of a few days, JV gets away with this being his team's first positive dope test? He also said there would not be any positive tests.

 

[blackcat]

I would not be surprised if it turns out to be tainted supplements.

tough to get by a tainted supplement defence.

Anyone who suffers from this, is gonna be a victim of all those frauds that use this defence as ruse.

 

[blackcat]

So by the space of a few days, JV gets away with this being his team's first positive dope test? He also said there would not be any positive tests.

raises pertinent question, just how is JV supposed to handle this? TZ needs to benefit of the B sample behind closed doors, but this has leaked.

This is not good for neither TZ nor JV. Rock and hard place. There was no solution to the press release on this, apart from be quiet, and no release.

 

[craig1985]

I suppose JV would have to suspend him. But technically he isn't a Garmin rider just yet, he still belongs to former team for three more days.

 

[fatandfast]

I suppose JV would have to suspend him. But technically he isn't a Garmin rider just yet, he still belongs to former team for three more days.

Even if the guy is innocent the team will not be able to deal with the process. Garmin can't afford the distraction

 

[BroDeal]

tough to get by a tainted supplement defence.

Anyone who suffers from this, is gonna be a victim of all those frauds that use this defence as ruse.

I'm not saying anything about him getting off. DHEA is so hyped as a wonder drug that I can easily envision acidently taking a supplement that contains it or contamination of a supplement that is not supposed to contain it. Thanks to Senator Orin Hatch, the supplement business is like the wild wild west.

 

[Ripper]

I would not be surprised if it turns out to be tainted supplements.

This is the more likely scenario. DHEA is very identifiable via testing and a pro would be outright silly to take it, especially for the possible 'small' benefit it might provide ... the risk/reward just would not make sense.

However, I do recall reading at some point that numerous supplements in the US could be contaminated. This was something like 10 years ago. For the life of me, I cannot remember the cyclist's name ... American fella who tested positive, proved it was from the supplement, but still suspended for a year.

 

[BroDeal]

This is the more likely scenario. DHEA is very identifiable via testing and a pro would be outright silly to take it, especially for the possible 'small' benefit it might provide ... the risk/reward just would not make sense.

However, I do recall reading at some point that numerous supplements in the US could be contaminated. This was something like 10 years ago. For the life of me, I cannot remember the cyclist's name ... American fella who tested positive, proved it was from the supplement, but still suspended for a year.

Was it Scott Moninger?

I know one athlete sued Hammer Nutrition/E-Caps for tainted supplements.

 

[Ripper]

Was it Scott Moninger?

I know one athlete sued Hammer Nutrition/E-Caps for tainted supplements.

Yes, it was Moninger! Here is an old link from CN about tainted supplements.

 

[ethnik]

Yes, it was Moninger! Here is an old link from CN about tainted supplements.

if you make a living as a pro athlete in a sport governed by WADA testing, it is entirely incumbent upon you to know EXACTLY what is and what is not going into your body.

the `tainted supplements`` defence is bull****. it should be called the tainted intelligence/common sense defence.

 

[Ripper]

if you make a living as a pro athlete in a sport governed by WADA testing, it is entirely incumbent upon you to know EXACTLY what is and what is not going into your body.

the `tainted supplements`` defence is bull****. it should be called the tainted intelligence/common sense defence.

Yes, I know the whole WADA ... incumbent line. I did not say it is any better than claiming you don't know the speed limit. But I sure as hell don't lump it in with EPO or suspicious blood values.

And actually, Moninger proved via testing of the supplements that they were tainted with substances that were not on the label. Kinda hard to know where to draw the line sometimes eh? Should I or should I not take that protein powder? It's lame we even need to ask ourselves that question.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

I suppose JV would have to suspend him. But technically he isn't a Garmin rider just yet, he still belongs to former team for three more days.

CN has an updated story now, http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/zirbel-denies-knowingly-ingesting-dhea

The Garmin contract wouldn't have gone into effect until January 1, but has already been terminated.

Susan

 

[python]

i wanna trust the guy but some things zirbel said don’t add up:

“I’m ignorant about these things, I didn’t know what DHEA was until I was first notified about my A sample positive.”

whilst proffering some expertise...

‘I have a chemistry back ground so I thought I could check things out as well.”

and he hired paul scott?

the cn article completely missed his ‘credentials’ as the chief scientific adviser to flandis’ lie campaign.

...smearing lndd in every possible way, interfering with sample testing... google this rat.

 

[ihavenolimbs]

TZ is a time trialist so DHEA would not make him faster, O2 delivery to the muscles is typically the performance limiter. And since it is so easily detected it wouldn't be part of a "recovery therapy" program either, not that it would probably help anyway.

Tainted supplements is the only sensible scenario, DHEA is marketed as a wonder supplement and finds its way into a lot of products. (Unless some people know something about DHEA that we don't know.)

P.S. And no, it isn't worth spending money on protein powders Ripper. Most of us, eating our western diets, get ample protein. Feel free to buy some ketone sticks and test yourself if you don't believe me.