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Zirbel

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Mar 10, 2009
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Should TZ's blood clot from a few years ago raise any eyebrows? He had explained it to me in the past, and it seemed pretty innocent.

Bummer, everyone (including me) loves TZ...However nothing erks me more than the tainted supplements excuse. Should we really loose sleep over using protein powders and amino acids?

Take note boys and girls, never finish the last of your supplements till you know you are clear of being tested, let's hope that's what TZ did.
 
Hooptie said:
Take note boys and girls, never finish the last of your supplements till you know you are clear of being tested, let's hope that's what TZ did.

I don't see how that would help. The athlete could always spike the supplements before testing. The ideal way to prove contamination would be to have unopened containers from the same batch tested.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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BroDeal said:
I don't see how that would help. The athlete could always spike the supplements before testing. The ideal way to prove contamination would be to have unopened containers from the same batch tested.

How about supplements in pill form? I guess all that's left is hiring an expert like Dr. Brent Kay and/or the CN Troll to testify that PED's make you slower. If that doesn't work, set up a foundation and write a book. Rock will be knocking on your door in 2 years.
 
May 12, 2009
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Supplements are a huge deal here in Utah. Many manufacturers of different kinds from big, careful and legit to tiny and sketchy. Senator Orrin Hatch has consistently opposed any sort of FDA regulation as the industry is so profitable for the UT economy.
I could easily see some significant contamination or purposely unlisted ingredient causing problems.
I think at least one of the big companies here has offered to reimburse any any athlete that fails a drug test because of contamination in its products. If I was a pro athlete, that would be about the only kind of supplement I'd be willing to take.
 
Jun 18, 2009
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slcbiker said:
Supplements are a huge deal here in Utah. Many manufacturers of different kinds from big, careful and legit to tiny and sketchy. Senator Orrin Hatch has consistently opposed any sort of FDA regulation as the industry is so profitable for the UT economy.
I could easily see some significant contamination or purposely unlisted ingredient causing problems.
I think at least one of the big companies here has offered to reimburse any any athlete that fails a drug test because of contamination in its products. If I was a pro athlete, that would be about the only kind of supplement I'd be willing to take.

21 CFR Part 111 - Good Manufacturing Practices in Manufactuing, Packaging, Labeling, or Holding Operations for Dietary Suppliments went into effect a few years ago. Haven't dealt with folks in this industry yet, but the regs were proposed in the early part of the decade and have been in the process of implementation. They started with the big companies and have been moving to the smaller ones.

In defense of Sen Hatch, I've found that he has always been an advocate of sensible regulations within the area of Food, Drugs, and Cosmetics. He's actually one of the very, very few members of that body that I have any respect for.
 
RTMcFadden said:
In defense of Sen Hatch, I've found that he has always been an advocate of sensible regulations within the area of Food, Drugs, and Cosmetics. He's actually one of the very, very few members of that body that I have any respect for.

You gotta be kiddin' me. Orrin Hatch is a dirtbag. He spends his time defending the ability of Utahns to rip off the rest of the country. It's no accident that Utah is the fraud capital of the country and sometimes referred to as U.S. Nigeria.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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RTMcFadden said:
21 CFR Part 111 - Good Manufacturing Practices in Manufactuing, Packaging, Labeling, or Holding Operations for Dietary Suppliments went into effect a few years ago. Haven't dealt with folks in this industry yet, but the regs were proposed in the early part of the decade and have been in the process of implementation. They started with the big companies and have been moving to the smaller ones.

In defense of Sen Hatch, I've found that he has always been an advocate of sensible regulations within the area of Food, Drugs, and Cosmetics. He's actually one of the very, very few members of that body that I have any respect for.
You realize that a huge part of it is because of ephedra? Mormons can't drink caffeine so they went nuts over the stimulant ephedra, which grows wild throughout Utah. It's called Mormon Tea. This played a big part in the supplement industry's growth in Utah. Hatch has done what all the other congresspeople have done, exerted an undue influence to protect his own.
 
May 8, 2009
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Epicycle said:
You realize that a huge part of it is because of ephedra? Mormons can't drink caffeine so they went nuts over the stimulant ephedra, which grows wild throughout Utah. It's called Mormon Tea. This played a big part in the supplement industry's growth in Utah. Hatch has done what all the other congresspeople have done, exerted an undue influence to protect his own.

You know I grew up in Utah and I haven't seen too much Mormon Tea being consumed. I would guess (but I don't really know) that most of the Ephedra that was added to supplements was from Asia. The Chinese have been using Ephedra for a really long time.

Utah definitely is the supplement capital, but tying that to Mormons not drinking Caffeine (which isn't really accurate), seems a bit of a stretch.

The interesting thing is that the supplement companies' biggest markets are in Asian countries.
 
Epicycle said:
You realize that a huge part of it is because of ephedra? Mormons can't drink caffeine so they went nuts over the stimulant ephedra, which grows wild throughout Utah. It's called Mormon Tea. This played a big part in the supplement industry's growth in Utah. Hatch has done what all the other congresspeople have done, exerted an undue influence to protect his own.

Um, there's no prohibition against Mormons consuming caffeine, the prohibition is against hot drinks (Joseph Smith defined these to be coffee and tea) as they "are not for the body or the belly".

While it is true that both beverages contain high levels of caffeine, there is no mention of stimulants, nor any prohibition against consuming other foods that contain caffeine (chocolates, energy drinks, soda, etc).

The church does have a few non-doctrinal teachings against addictive drugs (or which caffeine would be one), but they are modern interpretations and not specifically included in the Word of Wisdom" (which dates from 1833, a bit before Coca-Cola and RockStar hit the market).

Thank God I'm Catholic, I'd die without my java.
 
May 12, 2009
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RTMcFadden said:
21 CFR Part 111 - Good Manufacturing Practices in Manufactuing, Packaging, Labeling, or Holding Operations for Dietary Suppliments went into effect a few years ago. Haven't dealt with folks in this industry yet, but the regs were proposed in the early part of the decade and have been in the process of implementation. They started with the big companies and have been moving to the smaller ones.

In defense of Sen Hatch, I've found that he has always been an advocate of sensible regulations within the area of Food, Drugs, and Cosmetics. He's actually one of the very, very few members of that body that I have any respect for.

Hatch sensible? Bwaahaha. And Rep. Jason Chaffetz used to work for one of the supplement manufacturers.

Here's a directly pertinent article about athletes asking for more regulation and Utah politicians fighting it.

http://www.sltrib.com/utahpolitics/ci_13985458
 
MacRoadie said:
Um, there's no prohibition against Mormons consuming caffeine, the prohibition is against hot drinks (Joseph Smith defined these to be coffee and tea) as they "are not for the body or the belly".

While it is true that both beverages contain high levels of caffeine, there is no mention of stimulants, nor any prohibition against consuming other foods that contain caffeine (chocolates, energy drinks, soda, etc).

The church does have a few non-doctrinal teachings against addictive drugs (or which caffeine would be one), but they are modern interpretations and not specifically included in the Word of Wisdom" (which dates from 1833, a bit before Coca-Cola and RockStar hit the market).

I am no expert but the "hot drinks" stuff came from a meme in the early 1800's. People reasoned that hot drinks were unnatural, much like today we have nutters with their paleolithic diet. When caffeine was discovered in the 1900's, Mormons then reasoned that must be why coffee, tea, and such were prohibitted. Although caffeine is not officially banned, high ranking officials in their church have said that caffeine is unwholesome and should not be consumed. End result is that "good" mormons do not drink caffeinated drinks, and caffeine free soda is available everywhere in Utah.

For some reason mormons don't have a problem with chocolate, which contains a number of stimulants that are the equivalent of caffeine. Guess it tastes too good. Hot chocolate and similar drinks do not seem to be a problem either even though those should violate the prohibition of hot drinks. Figure that one out.

You would think with all those wives mormons would be looking for every stimulant they could lay their hands on. :p
 
Jun 18, 2009
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BroDeal said:
You gotta be kiddin' me. Orrin Hatch is a dirtbag. He spends his time defending the ability of Utahns to rip off the rest of the country. It's no accident that Utah is the fraud capital of the country and sometimes referred to as U.S. Nigeria.

The next time you go to the Pharmacy and get one of those $4 generics, just remember that Hatch co-authored the The Drug Price Competition and Patent Term Restoration Act of 1984, usually refered to as the Hatch-Waxman Act.

You haven't seen dirtbags until you lived in the North East. I've been jumping for joy all day, since news broke that we're finally getting rid of one of the biggest.
 
Apr 3, 2009
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I had not stopped by this thread in a few days (maybe a week). Anyway thanks for the post lunch break/work out chuckle. Where else could a discussion on doping in sport switch over to talking about Mormons, caffeine and international regulations pertaining to the good manufacturing practices of pharmaceuticals.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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cawright1375 said:
I had not stopped by this thread in a few days (maybe a week). Anyway thanks for the post lunch break/work out chuckle. Where else could a discussion on doping in sport switch over to talking about Mormons, caffeine and international regulations pertaining to the good manufacturing practices of pharmaceuticals.

One that started with a discussion related to bad regulation of food supplements and an alleged positive dope test as a result. The humorous interludes are part of any good discussion, don't you think?
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Oldman said:
One that started with a discussion related to bad regulation of food supplements and an alleged positive dope test as a result. The humorous interludes are part of any good discussion, don't you think?
I agree, but it's bad form not to include part of the original subject matter in the post. I mean, going from a positive dope test clear over to Mormon rituals might seem stretch, but does anyone know if Zirbel is Mormon?

See? Now we're back on Zirbel again.

Seamless.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Clemson Cycling said:
Any chance that Zirbel gets off? How does his case look?

good for a book?

How about "Tainted supplements, hot drinks, Zirbel, and INNOCENCE".

Should be good for a Zirbel Freedom Fund.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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HelmutRoole said:
I agree, but it's bad form not to include part of the original subject matter in the post. I mean, going from a positive dope test clear over to Mormon rituals might seem stretch, but does anyone know if Zirbel is Mormon?

See? Now we're back on Zirbel again.

Seamless.

Very nice transition. You must have a good spinning style.