“I have never admired Armstrong and never will.”

[Race Radio]

Taking satisfaction in anybodies misfortune or loss is pathetic and immature at best. Celebrate excellence and encourage those trying to achieve.

so true, like that Madoff guy. He made tons of money and we should celebrate his excellence.

 

[racerralph]

Having wasted 2 minutes on 10 pages of trollocks.

Back to the thread topic. from an article on today's events:

As Contador said shortly after seeing the route unveiled in Paris, he won't have anyone telling him not to attack next year. He's been telling people he intends to attack relentlessly in order to crack and humiliate Armstrong.


What's the Spanish for "I'm a fanboy"?
I think we can all agree, the young champ has got the measure of the old dog.

Yipeee!! now that's using the old Lasso! Back to the corral, I appreciate that
I'm with you I can't wait for the hoe down next July. We're going to see some dancin' in the Mountains next year, and I think it's going to have a Latin flavor to it!

 

[ggusta]

Yipeee!! now that's using the old Lasso! Back to the corral, I appreciate that
I'm with you I can't wait for the hoe down next July. We're going to see some dancin' in the Mountains next year, and I think it's going to have a Latin flavor to it!

but will there be dancing on the pedals and suitcases full of courage and suffering like dogs?

 

[progressor]

No, I actually AM intellectually superior to him. Get your facts straight...

As to the end of your post, would you like some cheese with that whine?

Anyway, something people like you never seem to understand is that I will debate respectfully with anyone. I will not however do so with those who's intention is to incite reaction only. Those people are called "trolls" and I am very happy to engage in that type of discourse because I am quite adept at the art. If you are going to get your feelings hurt when you jump in the ring, I would suggest watching instead.

Yeah you're right, I almost mistook you for the guy he seemed just like you on this thread

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=3939&page=32

But you would never 'debate' so disrespectfully, and of course your intellectual superiority would never let you lose an argument, because you'd never struggle so much with the simple concept another poster presented. You're just too good

 

[progressor]

I am curious - you have mentioned that point of 'getting banned' on a few posts.
Your count is up to 80+ and yet you havent offered an opinion - just merely highlight the one sidedness of the system - and you havent been banned.

So, I am curious, who - besides, TheArbiter and his numerous sockpuppets - have been banned?

not completely true. But it is a balance I need to be aware of.

Couldn't answer your question sorry, unfortunately I'm not willing to experiment with hurling back too much of the personal abuse, given I've been semi-warned for confronting the initiators.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah you're right, I almost mistook you for the guy he seemed just like you on this thread

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=3939&page=32

But you would never 'debate' so disrespectfully, and of course your intellectual superiority would never let you lose an argument, because you'd never struggle so much with the simple concept another poster presented. You're just too good

Oh no, I was completely wrong on that point. It is something human beings just are sometimes. I am ever so sorry that you have a problem with people who are smarter than you and are also more honest. I guess simple minds such as yours are incapable of dealing with a complex world in which being wrong has nothing to do with intelligence. But hey, the world needs fry cooks. Toodles!

 

[Ferminal]

You are just sore that in your attempts to discredit others, you've actually discredited yourself.

I have no problem articulating myself. Nor do I feel the need to attack another poster. De-constructing their arguments is enough (which isn't a personal attack, though that may be lost on you).

#1,324,700

Very well played Publicus!

More like 1300, or 13000 around here. This forum is virtually built on it, it would be a small fraction of it's size without it. He who shouts loudest and longest is most clever and most right. Apparently......

over and over and over and.....



with all the neutral perspective that one side of a failed relationship alway's gives

Unfortunately I suspect some around here get a lot of their angst from that.

Good posts.

Good post. As usual the attacks roll in. As usual it's the same comparatively small bunch who attack. Apparently the more you shout 'you're stupid because you don't agree with me' the more true it becomes. Love that logic

You're right, but take note how much personal abuse a some of these guy's get away with and be prepared to lose you're posting privileges if you take them on about it.

Absolutely. TFF is now arguing he is so intellectually superior he doesn't have to address any point you make. I'm in awe. Of course when you respond with anything like what he is giving you. You will be banned. I assume this will entuse him even for in his self created sense of superiority. Every time people get away with this sort of thing on a forum, it alway's seems to be one sided. There's a reason for that.

Yeah you're right, I almost mistook you for the guy he seemed just like you on this thread

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=3939&page=32

But you would never 'debate' so disrespectfully, and of course your intellectual superiority would never let you lose an argument, because you'd never struggle so much with the simple concept another poster presented. You're just too good

not completely true. But it is a balance I need to be aware of.

Couldn't answer your question sorry, unfortunately I'm not willing to experiment with hurling back too much of the personal abuse, given I've been semi-warned for confronting the initiators.

progressor, you have to understand that any questions of ethics you raise have no bearing on most posters.

You will have to prove to the underlying community that you can make a positive and constructive contribution to the forum, before they will ever accept you questioning the etiquette of certain posters. The reason why certain people (e.g TFF) are not denigrated for some of their less constructive posts is that regardless of the occasional flaw, they have shown themselves to be supreme contributors to discussions.

Until you can show that you can make a positive contribution to discussions, your criticisms of other members posting styles will simply fall on death ears, or perhaps more likely, result in the absolute breakdown of any existing discussion.

 

[BroDeal]

The reason why I love AC. He intimated in a previous interview that he thought the team didn't ride aggressive enough for him at times (i.e., the JB control factor), so I'm looking forward to seeing him unleashed next year. Frankly, I think this is the one thing that folks overlook about this year's TdF. Lance never really went head to head with AC.

It goes beyond that. Armstrong never showed himself to be remotely competitive with Contador or Schleck. Those two could have easily ridden away from everyone else on Ventoux and tag teamed each other to a huge time gain. The build up to a showdown is ridiculous. It is like when boxing promoters used to hype a fight by manipulating ethnic affiliations. They would find a mug with Italian or Irish ancestry, build him up with a series of easy--and often fixed--fights, then cash in on one big fight with the reigning champ. The mug would then get pulverized in the ring.

Heck, Armstrong knows what is up. Otherwise he would not be planning on doing an Ironman two months after the TdF.

 

[laziali]

Back to topic ... the interesting test in 2010 is going to be Armstrong with ultra strong Shack team vs Contador with a weaker team. How much the man, how much the team?

I remember Lemond in 1999 winning with only a couple of ADR team-mates left at the end, and Roche winning in the 1987 Giro when his entire Italian team was against him and riding for his teamate Viscontini, which shows individual talent can prevail.

 

[Cerberus]

Back to topic ... the interesting test in 2010 is going to be Armstrong with ultra strong Shack team vs Contador with a weaker team. How much the man, how much the team?

Nope, the interesting test will be Andy Schleck with a super strong team against Contador with a weaker one. Sure the Shack looks strong, but not stronger than Saxo Bank IMO, certainly not by much, not even if they get all the contested riders from Astana. Andy>Armstrong, Frank>Klöden, at least for mountains, Spartacus>>anyone at the Shack for tempo and descends, I'll grant that Leipheimer is probably better than Fuglsang, but overall I don't see the advantage for the Shack.

 

[rhubroma]

It goes beyond that. Armstrong never showed himself to be remotely competitive with Contador or Schleck. Those two could have easily ridden away from everyone else on Ventoux and tag teamed each other to a huge time gain. The build up to a showdown is ridiculous. It is like when boxing promoters used to hype a fight by manipulating ethnic affiliations. They would find a mug with Italian or Irish ancestry, build him up with a series of easy--and often fixed--fights, then cash in on one big fight with the reigning champ. The mug would then get pulverized in the ring.

Heck, Armstrong knows what is up. Otherwise he would not be planning on doing an Ironman two months after the TdF.

Agreed. The only possibility for Armstrong is that he has a significant jump in form, theoretically remote though at least feasable in a second season back (allthough his age makes even this a near imposibility), coupled by a drop in Contador's condition. If anything, however, AC will be stonger next season at 27 years old. So only injury or an error in preparation would cause a downward turn in the Spaniard's performance.

I'd say Armstrong as a better chance, consequently, of being struck by lightning.

 

[Sprocket01]

Contador has got to be the overwhelming favourite but you don't know how he might react under pressure if someone can get closer to him. It's easier to ride away from people and show boat when you're not under pressure, but when you absolutely have to do something then the game can change. Who knows, if Contador had attacked on all the places where he said he could have done this year, he might have blown himself up and not have been in any position to attack on the Mont Ventoux by the end of the tour. You just don't know. There are so many factors. Don't be entirely fooled by how easy he made it look this year. I think there's a good chance it will be a closer race in 2010.

 

[Sprocket01]

I also have a theory that he could be an earlier developer than other riders so won't see the improvements that others see in their late 20s. He's already made that leap.

 

[Bluebeard]

I am working on a theory that Contador will be so anxious to distance Armstrong early, and Armstrong to put his mark on the race early, that the pair of them tire each other out, especially on the Pavé stage. One or other of them (I'm guessing Contador) will be in yellow over the Alps, but fade specatcualrly in the Pyrenees, and Schleck or Evans catches him on the second assent of the Tourmalet, having picked up time on the first pass.

However, I am loathe to talk about this as it is as yet still a theory.

 

[bianchigirl]

Why on earth should Contador give a sh*t about Old Father Time? I know mobility scooters are pretty speedy these days but to posit Armstrong as Contador's main rival is utterly ridiculous.

If Contador stays at Astana (providing they keep their licence) do you really think the deep pockets of the Kazakh Federation won't buy him the best team available rather than a bunch of old has beens? Otherwise he goes to Sky/Garmin/Quickstep any of which are plenty strong enough to see off GeriShack (remember, they won't be able to be up to their old tricks in 2010). If Bruyneel employs his one and only tactic then all Contador has to do is sit on the wheel and benefit from all the hard work.

Sorry, whichever way you cut it, Contador's main competition will come from riders like Schleck and Gesink not some 39 year old with a rapidly developing inferiority complex

 

[fatandfast]

Why on earth should Contador give a sh*t about Old Father Time? I know mobility scooters are pretty speedy these days but to posit Armstrong as Contador's main rival is utterly ridiculous.

If Contador stays at Astana (providing they keep their licence) do you really think the deep pockets of the Kazakh Federation won't buy him the best team available rather than a bunch of old has beens? Otherwise he goes to Sky/Garmin/Quickstep any of which are plenty strong enough to see off GeriShack (remember, they won't be able to be up to their old tricks in 2010). If Bruyneel employs his one and only tactic then all Contador has to do is sit on the wheel and benefit from all the hard work.

Sorry, whichever way you cut it, Contador's main competition will come from riders like Schleck and Gesink not some 39 year old with a rapidly developing inferiority complex

This is accurate the Hoveround scooter is quick off the line but can't climb. One thing is for sure the next director of the team will know who the leader of the team is before they start the tour. JB has less balz than Lance, he should have told the 24 year old you are the leader. Nobody knows if Alberto will win but he will be able to start with confidence, something that LA and JB made him fight for from the start.

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

Contador has got to be the overwhelming favourite but you don't know how he might react under pressure if someone can get closer to him. It's easier to ride away from people and show boat when you're not under pressure, but when you absolutely have to do something then the game can change. Who knows, if Contador had attacked on all the places where he said he could have done this year, he might have blown himself up and not have been in any position to attack on the Mont Ventoux by the end of the tour. You just don't know. There are so many factors. Don't be entirely fooled by how easy he made it look this year. I think there's a good chance it will be a closer race in 2010.

True, one doesn't know with 100% certainty, but I think the '08 Giro, and '09 TdF are good indicators of his coping skills.

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

I also have a theory that he could be an earlier developer than other riders so won't see the improvements that others see in their late 20s. He's already made that leap.

Like the majority of Tour champions, no?

I can't see him getting a whole lot stronger, but I can see him being able to showcase that stregth a lot more.

 

[Sprocket01]

True, one doesn't know with 100% certainty, but I think the '08 Giro, and '09 TdF are good indicators of his coping skills.

Don't forget Paris Nice!

 

[Sprocket01]

Like the majority of Tour champions, no?

Not according to Contador.

 

[Mellow Velo]

I also have a theory that he could be an earlier developer than other riders so won't see the improvements that others see in their late 20s. He's already made that leap.

LOL
Yet, you and your fanboy mates confidently predict that, next year, a 39 YO is going to make a leap, that surpasses the physical levels, that brought him 7 TDFs.
Once again into the realms of science, meets fiction.
What parallel universe do you all come from?

 

[Publicus]

Don't forget Paris Nice!

Don't worry, AC won't forget. I think it was instrumental in his successes this year.

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

Don't forget Paris Nice!

A training race? Good spot to make errors and learn.

 

[hillytn]

I also have a theory that he could be an earlier developer than other riders so won't see the improvements that others see in their late 20s. He's already made that leap.

we'll all have opinions on this obviously, but I don't think he's reached (or at least shown) his full potential just yet even though he's riding at a level above pretty much everyone else. even if he doesn't "improve" on his performance I still think it's plenty enough to win another Tour.

props to Armstrong for wanting to compete, but I think he'll only make it to a top-10 finish. if RS wasn't so focused on him for the Tour LL or AK probably could place better. I'll happily eat crow, but I'd have to see it to believe it - and I don't think we'll see it.

 

[Ferminal]

I think Lance twitted a bit too much of "AC has a lot to learn".

Really though AC seems completely relaxed, mainly in the mountains. He knows he can ride away from pretty much everyone and that he can dictate the race, and generally makes a move at the right time.

Sure you might think he leaves a bit to be desired on the flat roads, but next year he will actually have a team to look after him on the cobbles/windy plains.