108th Milano - Sanremo, 18th March 2017, 291 km, WT

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

https://twitter.com/f_cancellara/status/843135395277799424

@f_cancellara
I think this final today in @Milano_Sanremo was a flashback with @vincenzonibali @simongerrans not always the strongest winning bike races

Cance still sore about it?? :lol: :lol:

That's kind of what I was thinking too. I like Cancellara, and I think he was a great rider, but serious... it's been five years. Get over it, dude.

 

[Akuryo]

Re:

Once they reached the last km, Sagan's only chance was to time his sprint right. No way the other two were going to lead him out. Unfortunately he didn't manage to do that. That's cycling and riding the way he did today, is not making Kwiatkowski a less deserving winner, or a wheelsucker all of a sudden.

Kwiatkowski owes this one partly to Alaphilippe though, as it was the Frenchman who closed the gap on Sagan on Poggio with the Pole just about able to hold his wheel. Had Sagan got to the descent with a gap, no-one would have brought him back.

You know that Kiwatkowski is one of the best descenders out there, right? He won a world title because of it ...

 

[the asian]

Re: Re:

https://twitter.com/f_cancellara/status/843135395277799424

@f_cancellara
I think this final today in @Milano_Sanremo was a flashback with @vincenzonibali @simongerrans not always the strongest winning bike races

Cance still sore about it?? :lol: :lol:

That's kind of what I was thinking too. I like Cancellara, and I think he was a great rider, but serious... it's been five years. Get over it, dude.

It's hard to get over when you lose to a dude like Gerrans.

 

[Netserk]

Re:

Once they reached the last km, Sagan's only chance was to time his sprint right. No way the other two were going to lead him out. Unfortunately he didn't manage to do that. That's cycling and riding the way he did today, is not making Kwiatkowski a less deserving winner, or a wheelsucker all of a sudden.

Kwiatkowski owes this one partly to Alaphilippe though, as it was the Frenchman who closed the gap on Sagan on Poggio with the Pole just about able to hold his wheel. Had Sagan got to the descent with a gap, no-one would have brought him back.

Totally agreed. Alaphilippe was the perfect rider to have latched on for them, as it meant QS wouldn't chase behind (at least I don't think they did). Sagan should also be happy that Kwiatkowski was with him, as he actually worked with him and that he could just as well have come out on top from that sprint.

 

[killswitch]

Re: Re:

https://twitter.com/f_cancellara/status/843135395277799424

@f_cancellara
I think this final today in @Milano_Sanremo was a flashback with @vincenzonibali @simongerrans not always the strongest winning bike races

He still remembers as he should. Just an awful display by Gerrans that day. Wish Spartacus would come back.

Why does he mention Nibs? Did nibs get screwed over too or was he also not taking turns?

ofcourse Nibali didn't work. Had no chance in the sprint anyway and Sagan won the sprint for 4th behind

Nibali was barely hanging on to Gerrans' wheel anyway, even if Sagan hadn't been in the bunch he wouldn't have taken turns.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Once they reached the last km, Sagan's only chance was to time his sprint right. No way the other two were going to lead him out. Unfortunately he didn't manage to do that. That's cycling and riding the way he did today, is not making Kwiatkowski a less deserving winner, or a wheelsucker all of a sudden.

Kwiatkowski owes this one partly to Alaphilippe though, as it was the Frenchman who closed the gap on Sagan on Poggio with the Pole just about able to hold his wheel. Had Sagan got to the descent with a gap, no-one would have brought him back.

Totally agreed. Alaphilippe was the perfect rider to have latched on for them, as it meant QS wouldn't chase behind (at least I don't think they did). Sagan should also be happy that Kwiatkowski was with him, as he actually worked with him and that he could just as well have come out on top from that sprint.

This. It was a very good group dynamic for all three involved. Sagan had the two strongest teams represented so not chasing, a rider in Kwiat who did some work if not perhaps an even share. If you give Sagan the option before hand of being in a heads up sprint against Kwiat and Alaphilippe for the win, even having worked a bit more, of course he would take it. Kwiatkowski was just too strong in the end - but it was probably a 50/50 shot at worst for Sagan.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

https://twitter.com/f_cancellara/status/843135395277799424

@f_cancellara
I think this final today in @Milano_Sanremo was a flashback with @vincenzonibali @simongerrans not always the strongest winning bike races

Cance still sore about it?? :lol: :lol:

That's kind of what I was thinking too. I like Cancellara, and I think he was a great rider, but serious... it's been five years. Get over it, dude.

It's hard to get over when you lose to a dude like Gerrans.

I don't even remember what Gerrans did that was supposedly so horrible. Other than, ya know, race the way which gave him the best chance of winning. Since I haven't heard any rumours that Gerrans cheated or that his win should be rewoked, then I can only assume that he won fairly and squarly. Just like Kwiato did.

 

[killswitch]

Sagan's mistake was opening his sprint with more than 200m to go on a finishing straight that is slightly uphill.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

Re: Re:

What a fantastic finish! Congratulations to Kwiatkowski, he deserves it!

I think Peter deserved it more

So Sagan deserved it more because he attacked first and lost in a sprint finish? This sounds like the Contador fans moaning that he deserved PN because he attacked from 50 odd k's out and finished a few seconds behind Henao. To me it seems Kwia was riding for Viviani, but keeping one eye on Sagan, knowing he was the main danger at that point of the race and if Sagan decided to attack, which every man and his dog knew he was going to, Kwia would latch on to his wheel and try his luck in the sprint. It just happened to work for Kwia and not Sagan. Great finish and deserving winner.

 

[SKSemtex]

Sagan can blame only himself. He knows Kwiatko very well and knows that he could beat him in sprint after eating so much wind. They had enough advantage. He should have been more cold-blooded.
Congrats to both.
Still better to lose like this, then in a bunch sprint.
I am always so happy when somebody steal the race from sprinters.

 

[Red Rick]

There's no deserving in cycling. There is a lot of beating a better man going around though.

 

[huge]

Re: Re:

What a fantastic finish! Congratulations to Kwiatkowski, he deserves it!

I think Peter deserved it more

So Sagan deserved it more because he attacked first and lost in a sprint finish? This sounds like the Contador fans moaning that he deserved PN because he attacked from 50 odd k's out and finished a few seconds behind Henao. To me it seems Kwia was riding for Viviani, but keeping one eye on Sagan, knowing he was the main danger at that point of the race and if Sagan decided to attack, which every man and his dog knew he was going to, Kwia would latch on to his wheel and try his luck in the sprint. It just happened to work for Kwia and not Sagan. Great finish and deserving winner.

He even said that.
Because of the big bunch on the Poggio, everybody was thinking that a bunch sprint was inevitable (except one guy).
Kwiato said he himself would have never attacked... than Sagan went, so he didn't have any other option but to follow.

 

[jaylew]

I don't think anyone can really complain about that finale. That finishing sprint was incredible to watch and Sagan's attack was amazing. I actually think he had a good chance of making it stick even had he been solo. No guarantee of that of course, but I think it would have been doable.

I'm finding it harder and harder to not be a fan. I used to really dislike Sagan but I've softened a bunch over the years. Sure, some of his off the bike stuff can be a bit tiresome but it's hard not to like a rider who is so entertaining and talented. He really does animate almost every race he does and just makes them more fun to watch. He really didn't have to attack. I honestly thought it would have been better for him to play his cards in a bunch sprint but I'm so glad he didn't even if none of the 3 guys on the podium are my favorites.

 

[rick james]

great final 10K....so pleased for Kwiatkowski and all the sky haters who love to hate

 

[Põhja Konn]

Re: Re:

Once they reached the last km, Sagan's only chance was to time his sprint right. No way the other two were going to lead him out. Unfortunately he didn't manage to do that. That's cycling and riding the way he did today, is not making Kwiatkowski a less deserving winner, or a wheelsucker all of a sudden.

Kwiatkowski owes this one partly to Alaphilippe though, as it was the Frenchman who closed the gap on Sagan on Poggio with the Pole just about able to hold his wheel. Had Sagan got to the descent with a gap, no-one would have brought him back.

You know that Kiwatkowski is one of the best descenders out there, right? He won a world title because of it ...

I know, but I believe Sagan is good enough to sustain and probably increase an already existing gap against him, both on the descent and on the flat when both are going all out.

 

[huge]

Sagan can blame only himself. He knows Kwiatko very well and knows that he could beat him in sprint after eating so much win. They had enough advantage. He should have been more cold-blooded.
Congrats to both.

I agree. He should have waited just a little bit longer.
That said, if he had waited, perhaps Kwiato would jumped him and won anyway, Who knows?

Truth is that it was a great finish. Overall well played by all three of them, each one according to their strength.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Once they reached the last km, Sagan's only chance was to time his sprint right. No way the other two were going to lead him out. Unfortunately he didn't manage to do that. That's cycling and riding the way he did today, is not making Kwiatkowski a less deserving winner, or a wheelsucker all of a sudden.

Kwiatkowski owes this one partly to Alaphilippe though, as it was the Frenchman who closed the gap on Sagan on Poggio with the Pole just about able to hold his wheel. Had Sagan got to the descent with a gap, no-one would have brought him back.

Totally agreed. Alaphilippe was the perfect rider to have latched on for them, as it meant QS wouldn't chase behind (at least I don't think they did). Sagan should also be happy that Kwiatkowski was with him, as he actually worked with him and that he could just as well have come out on top from that sprint.

This. It was a very good group dynamic for all three involved. Sagan had the two strongest teams represented so not chasing, a rider in Kwiat who did some work if not perhaps an even share. If you give Sagan the option before hand of being in a heads up sprint against Kwiat and Alaphilippe for the win, even having worked a bit more, of course he would take it. Kwiatkowski was just too strong in the end - but it was probably a 50/50 shot at worst for Sagan.

If not an even share of the work, from Kwait? What race were you watching? Sagan made the race on the Poggio and had it not been for Alaphilippe as a reference at 10 meters, Kwait doesn't latch onto Sagan. But the race went another way. So be it.

Though Sagan dove down the descent and got a couple of pulls from his companions on the flat, which is hardly contributing to the bulk of the work. Of course, that was their only tactical chance. Yet even that wouldn't have been enough against this Sagan had Sagan, once again, showed his mental limitation and lack of acumen that led to his starting the sprint 150 meters, perhaps 200 meters, too soon. And it wasn't as if Kwait and Ala would have anticipated him otherwise. No there were dead weights on his wheel, forced into passivity before Sagan's superior power.

Hats of to Kwait, but Sagan gave the race away at the end. He lost it, let's face it, on his own stupidity, but what a show he gave.

 

[DFA123]

Sagan can blame only himself. He knows Kwiatko very well and knows that he could beat him in sprint after eating so much win. They had enough advantage. He should have been more cold-blooded.
Congrats to both.

I agree. He should have waited just a little bit longer.
That said, if he had waited, perhaps Kwiato would jumped him and won anyway, Who knows?

Truth is that it was a great finish. Overall well played by all three of them, each one according to their strength.

I think Sagan saw at one point that Kwiatkowski just lost his wheel slightly in the last 300m, opening up a metre or so gap, and thought he could get the jump and drop the other two enough so that they couldn't come round. Perhaps made him go a bit earlier than he would have otherwise. But Kwiatkowski was too strong and got on his wheel again almost immediately, and then timed coming round to perfection.

 

[rhubroma]

Sagan can blame only himself. He knows Kwiatko very well and knows that he could beat him in sprint after eating so much win. They had enough advantage. He should have been more cold-blooded.
Congrats to both.

I agree. He should have waited just a little bit longer.
That said, if he had waited, perhaps Kwiato would jumped him and won anyway, Who knows?

Truth is that it was a great finish. Overall well played by all three of them, each one according to their strength.

I think Sagan saw at one point that Kwiatkowski just lost his wheel slightly in the last 300m, opening up a metre or so gap, and thought he could get the jump and drop the other two enough so that they couldn't come round. Perhaps made him go a bit earlier than he would have otherwise. But Kwiatkowski was too strong and got on his wheel again almost immediately, and then timed coming round to perfection.

Ha! To the bolded, Kwait slipped back to maximize being in Sagan's slipstream and Sagan, like a sucker, fell for it. Kwait was brilliant though in that sense.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Once they reached the last km, Sagan's only chance was to time his sprint right. No way the other two were going to lead him out. Unfortunately he didn't manage to do that. That's cycling and riding the way he did today, is not making Kwiatkowski a less deserving winner, or a wheelsucker all of a sudden.

Kwiatkowski owes this one partly to Alaphilippe though, as it was the Frenchman who closed the gap on Sagan on Poggio with the Pole just about able to hold his wheel. Had Sagan got to the descent with a gap, no-one would have brought him back.

Totally agreed. Alaphilippe was the perfect rider to have latched on for them, as it meant QS wouldn't chase behind (at least I don't think they did). Sagan should also be happy that Kwiatkowski was with him, as he actually worked with him and that he could just as well have come out on top from that sprint.

This. It was a very good group dynamic for all three involved. Sagan had the two strongest teams represented so not chasing, a rider in Kwiat who did some work if not perhaps an even share. If you give Sagan the option before hand of being in a heads up sprint against Kwiat and Alaphilippe for the win, even having worked a bit more, of course he would take it. Kwiatkowski was just too strong in the end - but it was probably a 50/50 shot at worst for Sagan.

If not an even share of the work, from Kwait? What race were you watching? Sagan made the race on the Poggio and had it not been for Alaphilippe as a reference at 10 meters, Kwait doesn't latch onto Sagan. But the race went another way. So be it.

Though Sagan dove down the descent and got a couple of pulls from his companions on the flat, which is hardly contributing to the bulk of the work. Of course, that was their only tactical chance. Yet even that wouldn't have been enough against this Sagan had Sagan, once again, showed his mental limitation and lack of acumen that led to his starting the sprint 150 meters, perhaps 200 meters, too soon. And it wasn't as if Kwait and Ala would have anticipated him otherwise. No there were dead weights on his wheel, forced into passivity before Sagan's superior power.

Hats of to Kwait, but Sagan gave the race away at the end. He lost it on, let's face it, on his own stupidity, but what a show he gave.

That's a very basic reading of the race. Sagan needed Alaphilippe and Kwiat there because otherwise he would have had Sky and Quickstep chasing him down, who were both well represented in the chasing group. The other two were contributing significantly to it staying away just by beaing in the break - the fact that Kwiatkowski took several pulls himself was even more help.

Of course the onus was on Sagan to do more work because a) he's the fastest sprinter and b) the other two both had decent options 10 seconds behind. He was always going to have to be the one leading into the closing stages. And if he would have waited until 150m to go, he'd have found Kwiatkowski or Alaphilippe flying round him with extremely limited time to latch onto their wheel and come round. If you're the fastest sprinter in that situation it makes sense to go quite early and trust yourself to hold the others off - otherwise you're at the mercy of a late counter attack and may not have the time to react to it.

 

[SKSemtex]

Is here anybody who thinks that Sagan would not be the clear favorit for Amstel?

 

[Inquitus]

Is here anybody who thinks that Sagan would not be the clear favorit for Amstel?

Sagan is the clear favourite for all the Flandrian races, doesn't mean he will win them all though, like today.

 

[Vroome.exe]

Sagan can blame only himself. He knows Kwiatko very well and knows that he could beat him in sprint after eating so much win. They had enough advantage. He should have been more cold-blooded.
Congrats to both.

I agree. He should have waited just a little bit longer.
That said, if he had waited, perhaps Kwiato would jumped him and won anyway, Who knows?

Truth is that it was a great finish. Overall well played by all three of them, each one according to their strength.

I think Sagan saw at one point that Kwiatkowski just lost his wheel slightly in the last 300m, opening up a metre or so gap, and thought he could get the jump and drop the other two enough so that they couldn't come round. Perhaps made him go a bit earlier than he would have otherwise. But Kwiatkowski was too strong and got on his wheel again almost immediately, and then timed coming round to perfection.

Ha! To the bolded, Kwait slipped back to maximize being in Sagan's slipstream and Sagan, like a sucker, fell for it. Kwait was brilliant though in that sense.

Exactly, that is the best way to maximise slipstream and I'm amazed how rarely sprinters do that. I think Kwiato did exactly the same to Sagan in E3 if I remember correctly.

 

[jaylew]

Let's all be honest. Didn't everyone pretty much know Sagan was very likely to finish 2nd or 3rd the second Ala and Kwia latched on? Everything played perfectly into their hands.

Is here anybody who thinks that Sagan would not be the clear favorit for Amstel?

If he can hold his form that long, probably. Do we even know if he plans to race it?

 

[DNP-Old]

Is here anybody who thinks that Sagan would not be the clear favorit for Amstel?

Me.