108th Milano - Sanremo, 18th March 2017, 291 km, WT

[Flamin]

This definitely exceeded my expectations. Can't ask for more really when 3 great attacking riders go on the Poggio and stay away til the finish. Either of those 3 I was perfectly fine with as the winner. Loved how Alaphilippe wanted to go full gas with Sagan and Kwia, showing what a true racer he is, but got clearly called back through the radio.

Credits to Sunweb for setting a very high pace on Cipressa, which for sure tired a lot of sprinters and doms, and (to a certain extent) allowed Sagan to create a big enough gap. Expected a little more from Matthews though.

 

[huge]

Ha! To the bolded, Kwait slipped back to maximize being in Sagan's slipstream and Sagan, like a sucker, fell for it. Kwait was brilliant though in that sense.

Well said.
That's exactly what Kwiato did.
I doubt Sagan fell for it, though. I think he was fully aware of the Polish intentions.

 

[rick james]

when Sky came into that final climb with 5 riders still there it really was a beautiful sight, amazing race from them....if only people could see by their hatred to they rode the perfect race

 

[SKSemtex]

Is here anybody who thinks that Sagan would not be the clear favorit for Amstel?

Sagan is the clear favourite for all the Flandrian races, doesn't mean he will win them all though, like today.

I know. Especially with the strenght of QS and BMC and weakness of his own team. But it is OK. This is why we like road cycling not track. His losts are tax for his big paycheck. But even without one more monument he will be legend greater then Kiwi with all five of them.

 

[Akuryo]

Re:

when Sky came into that final climb with 5 riders still there it really was a beautiful sight, amazing race from them....if only people could see by their hatred to they rode the perfect race

Since Quickstep and FDJ did most of the work Sky could take a break for 285 kilometers. Nothing more. They did not "ride a perfect race". They just did not do any work before the last few meters. And why? Cause neither Kwiatkowski nor Viviani where considered top favorites. Played well into their hands but nothing to be proud of. Kwiatkowski won the race not Sky.

 

[djconnel]

Re: Re:

People say Kwiatkowski isn't as "deserving" a winner. Cycling is a team sport. Sky beat Bora. Sky was a deserving winner.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Once they reached the last km, Sagan's only chance was to time his sprint right. No way the other two were going to lead him out. Unfortunately he didn't manage to do that. That's cycling and riding the way he did today, is not making Kwiatkowski a less deserving winner, or a wheelsucker all of a sudden.

Kwiatkowski owes this one partly to Alaphilippe though, as it was the Frenchman who closed the gap on Sagan on Poggio with the Pole just about able to hold his wheel. Had Sagan got to the descent with a gap, no-one would have brought him back.

Totally agreed. Alaphilippe was the perfect rider to have latched on for them, as it meant QS wouldn't chase behind (at least I don't think they did). Sagan should also be happy that Kwiatkowski was with him, as he actually worked with him and that he could just as well have come out on top from that sprint.

This. It was a very good group dynamic for all three involved. Sagan had the two strongest teams represented so not chasing, a rider in Kwiat who did some work if not perhaps an even share. If you give Sagan the option before hand of being in a heads up sprint against Kwiat and Alaphilippe for the win, even having worked a bit more, of course he would take it. Kwiatkowski was just too strong in the end - but it was probably a 50/50 shot at worst for Sagan.

If not an even share of the work, from Kwait? What race were you watching? Sagan made the race on the Poggio and had it not been for Alaphilippe as a reference at 10 meters, Kwait doesn't latch onto Sagan. But the race went another way. So be it.

Though Sagan dove down the descent and got a couple of pulls from his companions on the flat, which is hardly contributing to the bulk of the work. Of course, that was their only tactical chance. Yet even that wouldn't have been enough against this Sagan had Sagan, once again, showed his mental limitation and lack of acumen that led to his starting the sprint 150 meters, perhaps 200 meters, too soon. And it wasn't as if Kwait and Ala would have anticipated him otherwise. No there were dead weights on his wheel, forced into passivity before Sagan's superior power.

Hats of to Kwait, but Sagan gave the race away at the end. He lost it on, let's face it, on his own stupidity, but what a show he gave.

That's a very basic reading of the race. Sagan needed Alaphilippe and Kwiat there because otherwise he would have had Sky and Quickstep chasing him down, who were both well represented in the chasing group. The other two were contributing significantly to it staying away just by beaing in the break - the fact that Kwiatkowski took several pulls himself was even more help.

Of course the onus was on Sagan to do more work because a) he's the fastest sprinter and b) the other two both had decent options 10 seconds behind. He was always going to have to be the one leading into the closing stages. And if he would have waited until 150m to go, he'd have found Kwiatkowski or Alaphilippe flying round him with extremely limited time to latch onto their wheel and come round. If you're the fastest sprinter in that situation it makes sense to go quite early and trust yourself to hold the others off - otherwise you're at the mercy of a late counter attack and may not have the time to react to it.

Obviously starting the sprint at 300 meters was fallimentary. Thus he should have started his sprint later. And given that Kwait only passed him on the line, having taken full advantage of Sagan's slipstream when he very astutely slipped back off his wheel a couple of meters at 300 meters to go, the likelyhood that he would have been able to launch a better sprint with less time and slipstream to utilize is not likely. With a well timed sprint Sagan would have held him off to the line. Had Sagan waited another 100 meters or so he'd have arrived at the tail end of peak accelleration and not on the downward side of velocity as was the case.

Your assessment, though, about Sky and Quick-step chasing Sagan down without Kwait and Ala is plausible, though I'm wondering, given Sagan was the fastest of the trio, if the chase from the back still wasn't full on. Quick step had El Missile for the sprint, after all, and even without Sky working at the end of Milan San Remo with circa 300 k's in the legs, at those speeds, its just about attrition. In other words, having Sagan with them perhaps didn't change the chase from behind as much as you think. While certainly on the descent, which was all Sagan, the gap went up. My point is that Sagan could have probably held the chase off on his own. In any case, he totally mis-timed his sprint, which cost him the race.

 

[dick the quick]

Is here anybody who thinks that Sagan would not be the clear favorit for Amstel?

Sagan is the clear favourite for all the Flandrian races, doesn't mean he will win them all though, like today.

I know. Especially with the strenght of QS and BMC and weakness of his own team. But it is OK. This is why we like road cycling not track. His losts are tax for his big paycheck. But even without one more monument he will be legend greater then Kiwi with all five of them.

Hm. Honestly, I doubt that either Sagan or Kwiatkowski will win more than three or four monuments. But if they will, I will see both of them as great legends of cycling, without judging which one is better or greater.

 

[rhubroma]

Ha! To the bolded, Kwait slipped back to maximize being in Sagan's slipstream and Sagan, like a sucker, fell for it. Kwait was brilliant though in that sense.

Well said.
That's exactly what Kwiato did.
I doubt Sagan fell for it, though. I think he was fully aware of the Polish intentions.

Perhaps fell for it was too harsh, but he certainly chose (was induced?) to open up the throttle at the worst moment, given how far from finish and with extra slipstream in his wake. In fact he was slain in the end. Too little reward for a sensational performance.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

50 riders came in @+5s. Massive group.
The race never really excited me this time.
Anyway congrats to Kwia.

 

[djconnel]

Re: Re:

having Sagan with them perhaps didn't change the chase from behind as much as you think.

The gap was only five seconds. "As much as you think"? If at all that was enough.

I didn't see either QS or S drilling it at the front of the chase.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

50 riders came in @+5s. Massive group.
The race never really excited me this time.
Anyway congrats to Kwia.

Funny, I think this definitely was a better edition than at least 14, 15 and 16.

 

[rick james]

Re: Re:

when Sky came into that final climb with 5 riders still there it really was a beautiful sight, amazing race from them....if only people could see by their hatred to they rode the perfect race

Since Quickstep and FDJ did most of the work Sky could take a break for 285 kilometers. Nothing more. They did not "ride a perfect race". They just did not do any work before the last few meters. And why? Cause neither Kwiatkowski nor Viviani where considered top favorites. Played well into their hands but nothing to be proud of. Kwiatkowski won the race not Sky.

Win = perfect race

 

[Lance Armstrong]

Re: Re:

having Sagan with them perhaps didn't change the chase from behind as much as you think.

The gap was only five seconds. "As much as you think"? If at all that was enough.

I didn't see either QS or S drilling it at the front of the chase.

Neither Sagan was drilling it last km.

 

[classicomano]

In ultimate Gerro fashion Orica was with 7 men in the lead group, did 0 chasing, and had 3 guys do their own individual sprint barely breaking the top 10.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

In ultimate Gerro fashion Orica was with 7 men in the lead group, did 0 chasing, and had 3 guys do their own individual sprint barely breaking the top 10.

Really?

I can't even

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

having Sagan with them perhaps didn't change the chase from behind as much as you think.

The gap was only five seconds. "As much as you think"? If at all that was enough.

I didn't see either QS or S drilling it at the front of the chase.

It's difficult to assess how much Kwait and Ala contributed to holding off the pursuit, while after nearly 300 k it's not like orgainizing a train at the end of a 200 k race. Normally team chase efforts are pretty much neutralized at that distance and its just matter of following the momentum until the miners' sprint.

Some of the time lost at the front was due to normal setting up for the sprint.

 

[Akuryo]

Re: Re:

when Sky came into that final climb with 5 riders still there it really was a beautiful sight, amazing race from them....if only people could see by their hatred to they rode the perfect race

Since Quickstep and FDJ did most of the work Sky could take a break for 285 kilometers. Nothing more. They did not "ride a perfect race". They just did not do any work before the last few meters. And why? Cause neither Kwiatkowski nor Viviani where considered top favorites. Played well into their hands but nothing to be proud of. Kwiatkowski won the race not Sky.

Win = perfect race

No. Win = perfect result. Not to be confused with perfect race.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

In ultimate Gerro fashion Orica was with 7 men in the lead group, did 0 chasing, and had 3 guys do their own individual sprint barely breaking the top 10.

Really?

I can't even

Astana basically did the same. 23, 24, 25, 28 and 35. Dafuq.

 

[kingjr]

Re: Re:

when Sky came into that final climb with 5 riders still there it really was a beautiful sight, amazing race from them....if only people could see by their hatred to they rode the perfect race

Since Quickstep and FDJ did most of the work Sky could take a break for 285 kilometers. Nothing more. They did not "ride a perfect race". They just did not do any work before the last few meters. And why? Cause neither Kwiatkowski nor Viviani where considered top favorites. Played well into their hands but nothing to be proud of. Kwiatkowski won the race not Sky.

Win = perfect race

That doesn't make sense.

 

[rick james]

to me it does....haters gonna hate

 

[DFA123]

I see Cavendish won the sprint for 101st place. Putting a 40 strong group of domestiques and pro-conti riders to the sword.

 

[Ricco']

Re: Re:

In ultimate Gerro fashion Orica was with 7 men in the lead group, did 0 chasing, and had 3 guys do their own individual sprint barely breaking the top 10.

Really?

I can't even

Astana basically did the same. 23, 24, 25, 28 and 35. Dafuq.

At least Astana didn't have sprinters who are used to win races.

 

[sQiD]

Peter is not a big fan of MSR, he was prepared to lose it. It won't be the case in Flanders and Roubaix.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

In ultimate Gerro fashion Orica was with 7 men in the lead group, did 0 chasing, and had 3 guys do their own individual sprint barely breaking the top 10.

Really?

I can't even

Astana basically did the same. 23, 24, 25, 28 and 35. Dafuq.

Is this some kind of new tactic, more evidence of how the WT system encourages some weird racing? If you're not going to be top 5 or whatever then try to throw as many men somewhere between 10th and 30th to hoover up WT points, rather than just using the whole team to guide one rider to 7th or 8th.