108th Milano - Sanremo, 18th March 2017, 291 km, WT

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

Obviously starting the sprint at 300 meters was fallimentary. Thus he should have started his sprint later. And given that Kwait only passed him on the line, having taken full advantage of Sagan's slipstream when he very astutely slipped back of his wheel a couple of meters at 300 meters to go, the likelyhood that he would have been able to launch a better sprint with less time and slipstream to utilize is not likely. With a well timed sprint Sagan would have held him off to the line. Had Sagan waited another 100 meters or so he'd have arrived at the tail end of peak accelleration and not on the downward side of velocity as was the case.

Certainly. Sagan has no one to blame but himself. He starts that sprint even 50 meters later, he likely wins. That moment when Kwia slipped back a bit at 300m, whether purposefully or not was the moment the race was won, imo.

 

[djconnel]

Re: Re:

Certainly. Sagan has no one to blame but himself. He starts that sprint even 50 meters later, he likely wins. That moment when Kwia slipped back a bit at 300m, whether purposefully or not was the moment the race was won, imo.

Sagan looked back and there was a gap to Kwiatkowski. At that point he decided the best chance he had was to exploit that gap. It almost worked. Had he tried to delay the sprint it's possible Kwiatkowki would have been closer to his wheel.

 

[tomorrow]

Re: Re:

https://twitter.com/f_cancellara/status/843135395277799424

@f_cancellara
I think this final today in @Milano_Sanremo was a flashback with @vincenzonibali @simongerrans not always the strongest winning bike races

He still remembers as he should. Just an awful display by Gerrans that day. Wish Spartacus would come back.

Why does he mention Nibs? Did nibs get screwed over too or was he also not taking turns?

Because they finished in a group of 3?

Yea but I don't remember the race. I know Gerrans did Gerrans things and Cancellara did Cancellara things but I don't know what Nibs did.

Well basically, nibs maybe took from sagan his only real chance of ever winning MSR(just a statement, no bad heart about it, it was the correct plan, cancellara was just too strong) . he was the one who attacked on poggio and when cancellara a gerrrans caught him, he agtually hadnt cooperated too much, but fabian just hold the peloton himself, even thoug 3 liquigas riders were pulling like mad, they did no come any closer to the trio. Hadn´t nibali attacked, sagan would probably won. He had it in him to follow any attack on poggio and he was the strongest sprinter. In the group, as many proven riders ofethat time were dropped on le manie, cavendish included.

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

Certainly. Sagan has no one to blame but himself. He starts that sprint even 50 meters later, he likely wins. That moment when Kwia slipped back a bit at 300m, whether purposefully or not was the moment the race was won, imo.

Sagan looked back and there was a gap to Kwiatkowski. At that point he decided the best chance he had was to exploit that gap. It almost worked. Had he tried to delay the sprint it's possible Kwiatkowki would have been closer to his wheel.

Certainly possible but I think sitting on the front for so long doomed him. Btw, is that finish slightly uphill? Certainly didn't seem to be completely flat but could have been those 300k in the legs.

 

[Brullnux]

'His only real chance' you're joking right?

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Lol Kwiat get congratulated for doing what Gerrans does. Got to love this forum

Finally someone not bias in here.

I think there is a difference. Gerrans vs Cancellara is a very close sprint. Kwiatkowski vs Sagan isn't. Kwiat had only one option, I'm surprised he worked so much. Gerrans is hated because he doesn't work when he really should do, for his own good.

 

[hrotha]

Re:

Lol Kwiat get congratulated for doing what Gerrans does. Got to love this forum

It's almost like Kwiatkowski has a long history of doing the opposite of wheelsucking.

 

[Stan955]

Re: Re:

Lol Kwiat get congratulated for doing what Gerrans does. Got to love this forum

Finally someone not bias in here.

I think there is a difference. Gerrans vs Cancellara is a very close sprint. Kwiatkowski vs Sagan isn't. Kwiat had only one option, I'm surprised he worked so much. Gerrans is hated because he doesn't work when he really should do, for his own good.

Kwiato worked too much ??? I hope you are being sarcastic ... He took 2 pulls one of 3-4 seconds and other of about 2 seconds .

 

[jaylew]

I thought Sagan might be bitter after this one but sounds like he's in good spirits:

"I'm satisfied. The result is important but so is putting on a show for the fans. The strongest doesn't always win,"

"The only thing missing today was a little bit of co-operation from some other riders. But it's okay. I did my bit and I'm happy with what I did. That's cycling. You race for 300km and you can win by a little or lose by a little. I did my best."

"I did a lot of work in the last five kilometres. They did one turn each but that's normal and it's clear that they recovered more than I did. I produced a lot of watts in the sprint but I didn't win."

"I hadn't planned anything because racing depends on the legs you have. I didn't think to go so well. I thought other riders would attack, I don't know why they didn't. Perhaps they didn't have the legs…." he explained.

"I tried it this year because there was a tailwind on the Poggio. I had nothing to lose, I tried. I got away and then Kwiat and Alaphilippe came across. I still thought I was faster than them. I thought we'd go away but it's hard to get some help from different teams. But that's cycling. Not always the best can win."

Sagan joked that Kwiatkowski now "owes me a few beers".

"We've only really started today with Milan-San Remo," Sagan said. "Now I've got to recover. At the weekend we've got Harelbeke and then Gent-Wevelgem, then Flanders and Roubaix."

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Lol Kwiat get congratulated for doing what Gerrans does. Got to love this forum

Finally someone not bias in here.

I think there is a difference. Gerrans vs Cancellara is a very close sprint. Kwiatkowski vs Sagan isn't. Kwiat had only one option, I'm surprised he worked so much. Gerrans is hated because he doesn't work when he really should do, for his own good.

Kwiato worked too much ??? I hope you are being sarcastic ... He took 2 pulls one of 3-4 seconds and other of about 2 seconds .

Exactly.

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

I thought Sagan might be bitter after this one but sounds like he's in good spirits:

"I'm satisfied. The result is important but so is putting on a show for the fans. The strongest doesn't always win,"

"The only thing missing today was a little bit of co-operation from some other riders. But it's okay. I did my bit and I'm happy with what I did. That's cycling. You race for 300km and you can win by a little or lose by a little. I did my best."

"I did a lot of work in the last five kilometres. They did one turn each but that's normal and it's clear that they recovered more than I did. I produced a lot of watts in the sprint but I didn't win."

"I hadn't planned anything because racing depends on the legs you have. I didn't think to go so well. I thought other riders would attack, I don't know why they didn't. Perhaps they didn't have the legs…." he explained.

"I tried it this year because there was a tailwind on the Poggio. I had nothing to lose, I tried. I got away and then Kwiat and Alaphilippe came across. I still thought I was faster than them. I thought we'd go away but it's hard to get some help from different teams. But that's cycling. Not always the best can win."

Sagan joked that Kwiatkowski now "owes me a few beers".

"We've only really started today with Milan-San Remo," Sagan said. "Now I've got to recover. At the weekend we've got Harelbeke and then Gent-Wevelgem, then Flanders and Roubaix."

Sorry, but he's always crying about the lack of help, that's annoying.
FFS, you're the WC, you're the biggest star of the sport and if you're the fastest sprinter in the leading group the other won't collaborate that much and frankly that's exactly what those kind of guys should do if they want to beat you.
He's one hell of a rider, but complaining about others racing smart and doing the one thing that actually gives them a decent chance at beating him (instead of just racing for the 2nd place) is just stupid.

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

After all that work by Dumoulin and Arndt, Matthews rolled home in 12th. Think there'll be some sharp discussion on their bus ride back to the hotel.

They worked to make the race hard so Matthews could attack on the Poggio, but Matthews clearly didn't have the legs. So he would actually attack, but if you don't have the legs then it stops.

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

I thought Sagan might be bitter after this one but sounds like he's in good spirits:

"I'm satisfied. The result is important but so is putting on a show for the fans. The strongest doesn't always win,"

"The only thing missing today was a little bit of co-operation from some other riders. But it's okay. I did my bit and I'm happy with what I did. That's cycling. You race for 300km and you can win by a little or lose by a little. I did my best."

"I did a lot of work in the last five kilometres. They did one turn each but that's normal and it's clear that they recovered more than I did. I produced a lot of watts in the sprint but I didn't win."

"I hadn't planned anything because racing depends on the legs you have. I didn't think to go so well. I thought other riders would attack, I don't know why they didn't. Perhaps they didn't have the legs…." he explained.

"I tried it this year because there was a tailwind on the Poggio. I had nothing to lose, I tried. I got away and then Kwiat and Alaphilippe came across. I still thought I was faster than them. I thought we'd go away but it's hard to get some help from different teams. But that's cycling. Not always the best can win."

Sagan joked that Kwiatkowski now "owes me a few beers".

"We've only really started today with Milan-San Remo," Sagan said. "Now I've got to recover. At the weekend we've got Harelbeke and then Gent-Wevelgem, then Flanders and Roubaix."

Sorry, but he's always crying about the lack of help, that's annoying.
FFS, you're the WC, you're the biggest star of the sport and if you're the fastest sprinter in the leading group the other won't collaborate that much and frankly that's exactly what those kind of guys should do if they want to beat you.
He's one hell of a rider, but complaining about others racing smart and doing the one thing that actually gives them a decent chance at beating him (instead of just racing for the 2nd place) is just stupid.

Where exactly is he crying about it in the interview

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

I thought Sagan might be bitter after this one but sounds like he's in good spirits:

"I'm satisfied. The result is important but so is putting on a show for the fans. The strongest doesn't always win,"

"The only thing missing today was a little bit of co-operation from some other riders. But it's okay. I did my bit and I'm happy with what I did. That's cycling. You race for 300km and you can win by a little or lose by a little. I did my best."

"I did a lot of work in the last five kilometres. They did one turn each but that's normal and it's clear that they recovered more than I did. I produced a lot of watts in the sprint but I didn't win."

"I hadn't planned anything because racing depends on the legs you have. I didn't think to go so well. I thought other riders would attack, I don't know why they didn't. Perhaps they didn't have the legs…." he explained.

"I tried it this year because there was a tailwind on the Poggio. I had nothing to lose, I tried. I got away and then Kwiat and Alaphilippe came across. I still thought I was faster than them. I thought we'd go away but it's hard to get some help from different teams. But that's cycling. Not always the best can win."

Sagan joked that Kwiatkowski now "owes me a few beers".

"We've only really started today with Milan-San Remo," Sagan said. "Now I've got to recover. At the weekend we've got Harelbeke and then Gent-Wevelgem, then Flanders and Roubaix."

Sorry, but he's always crying about the lack of help, that's annoying.
FFS, you're the WC, you're the biggest star of the sport and if you're the fastest sprinter in the leading group the other won't collaborate that much and frankly that's exactly what those kind of guys should do if they want to beat you.
He's one hell of a rider, but complaining about others racing smart and doing the one thing that actually gives them a decent chance at beating him (instead of just racing for the 2nd place) is just stupid.

Did we read the same thing? Crying? I think you're being rather harsh. He said "that's normal" He knows they weren't likely to help being slower sprinters and having sprinters in the chasing group. It's not like he even tried that hard to get them to come around. No gesticulating or complaining. I think I only saw one, normal elbow flick.

 

[spalco]

Great finish today, proving you can still win the race on the Poggio.

Beastly attack by Sagan, but also credit to Kwiatkowski and Alaphillipe for having the presence of mind to respond to Sagan quickly enough, and especially the latter for managing to bridge.

Any one of the three would have "deserved" the win imo.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

I thought Sagan might be bitter after this one but sounds like he's in good spirits:

"I'm satisfied. The result is important but so is putting on a show for the fans. The strongest doesn't always win,"

"The only thing missing today was a little bit of co-operation from some other riders. But it's okay. I did my bit and I'm happy with what I did. That's cycling. You race for 300km and you can win by a little or lose by a little. I did my best."

"I did a lot of work in the last five kilometres. They did one turn each but that's normal and it's clear that they recovered more than I did. I produced a lot of watts in the sprint but I didn't win."

"I hadn't planned anything because racing depends on the legs you have. I didn't think to go so well. I thought other riders would attack, I don't know why they didn't. Perhaps they didn't have the legs…." he explained.

"I tried it this year because there was a tailwind on the Poggio. I had nothing to lose, I tried. I got away and then Kwiat and Alaphilippe came across. I still thought I was faster than them. I thought we'd go away but it's hard to get some help from different teams. But that's cycling. Not always the best can win."

Sagan joked that Kwiatkowski now "owes me a few beers".

"We've only really started today with Milan-San Remo," Sagan said. "Now I've got to recover. At the weekend we've got Harelbeke and then Gent-Wevelgem, then Flanders and Roubaix."

Sorry, but he's always crying about the lack of help, that's annoying.
FFS, you're the WC, you're the biggest star of the sport and if you're the fastest sprinter in the leading group the other won't collaborate that much and frankly that's exactly what those kind of guys should do if they want to beat you.
He's one hell of a rider, but complaining about others racing smart and doing the one thing that actually gives them a decent chance at beating him (instead of just racing for the 2nd place) is just stupid.

I don't think he's crying. Sure he mentions no help and he's right about that, but then he also says that it's to be expected and all of this in good spirits, never moaning.

It's always something for some of you.

 

[huge]

Re:

Great finish today, proving you can still win the race on the Poggio.

Beastly attack by Sagan, but also credit to Kwiatkowski and Alaphillipe for having the presence of mind to respond to Sagan quickly enough, and especially the latter for managing to bridge.

Any one of the three would have "deserved" the win imo.

Presence of mind and presence of legs.

They were not the first ones to respond, but the only two that managed to follow.
Sagan's acceleration was brutal! And honestly I thought he would drop them, so kudos to them to hang up for dear life and getting back to his wheel.

 

[May0maniac]

Maybe I'm being a bit too harsh, but after Omloop he also complained about the lack of help from GVA and Sep.
I understand that it can be a bit frustrating, but that's just how you should race in a reduced group with Sagan if you actually want to win the race, let him do most of the work.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re: Re:

I thought Sagan might be bitter after this one but sounds like he's in good spirits:

"I'm satisfied. The result is important but so is putting on a show for the fans. The strongest doesn't always win,"

"The only thing missing today was a little bit of co-operation from some other riders. But it's okay. I did my bit and I'm happy with what I did. That's cycling. You race for 300km and you can win by a little or lose by a little. I did my best."

"I did a lot of work in the last five kilometres. They did one turn each but that's normal and it's clear that they recovered more than I did. I produced a lot of watts in the sprint but I didn't win."

"I hadn't planned anything because racing depends on the legs you have. I didn't think to go so well. I thought other riders would attack, I don't know why they didn't. Perhaps they didn't have the legs…." he explained.

"I tried it this year because there was a tailwind on the Poggio. I had nothing to lose, I tried. I got away and then Kwiat and Alaphilippe came across. I still thought I was faster than them. I thought we'd go away but it's hard to get some help from different teams. But that's cycling. Not always the best can win."

Sagan joked that Kwiatkowski now "owes me a few beers".

"We've only really started today with Milan-San Remo," Sagan said. "Now I've got to recover. At the weekend we've got Harelbeke and then Gent-Wevelgem, then Flanders and Roubaix."

Sorry, but he's always crying about the lack of help, that's annoying.
FFS, you're the WC, you're the biggest star of the sport and if you're the fastest sprinter in the leading group the other won't collaborate that much and frankly that's exactly what those kind of guys should do if they want to beat you.
He's one hell of a rider, but complaining about others racing smart and doing the one thing that actually gives them a decent chance at beating him (instead of just racing for the 2nd place) is just stupid.

Haters gonna hate.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Just a few years back it was Cancellara against the rest and now it is Sagan.
If he attacks, nobody will work with him due to his sprint and if he stays put, he wont win against the pure sprinters. So attack and get something rather than nothing.
Somebody has to teach Sagan tactics otherwise more losses are coming.

 

[deValtos]

I just realized the classic tactic Giant imposed which was "make it hard for the sprinters" didn't exactly pay off for them because there was only really one pure sprinter in the race: Cavendish. Judging by the results Kristoff/Gaviria/Demare/Degenkolb/Bouhanni were largely untroubled by this.

In hindsight it's a shame Dumo didn't launch a move and let the other teams chase.

Actually I just realised Ewan and Viviani were there too so maybe it wasn't entirely useless. However with so many riders of the same "hilly sprinter" type do you really want it to come down to a sprint when your guy is going up against 10 of his clones? Something to think about.

 

[Brullnux]

Viviani and Ewan were also fairly unperturbed. In fact 50 riders reached the finish in the peloton.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

The problem for Sagan, and of a lot of super strong riders in the past, is the following..

If they attack or counter attack, everyone who goes with them doesn't really want to co-operate much. So he has to either exhaust himself to stay away and risk losing that sprint. Or fall back to the group and then do a mass sprint, which is much harder to win.

If they stay in the bunch and do not react to an attack, nobody in the bunch will want to work to bring him back, because a fresh Sagan after a hard race is still too hard to beat.

Too strong for his own good.

 

[Red Rick]

The problem for Sagan, and of a lot of super strong riders in the past, is the following..

If they attack or counter attack, everyone who goes with them doesn't really want to co-operate much. So he has to either exhaust himself to stay away and risk losing that sprint. Or fall back to the group and then do a mass sprint, which is much harder to win.

If they stay in the bunch and do not react to an attack, nobody in the bunch will want to work to bring him back, because a fresh Sagan after a hard race is still too hard to beat.

Too strong for his own good.

This attack was unanticipated. I think that if Sagan were to do it next time he'd have his team make the race harder on the Poggio.

 

[Jspear]

The problem for Sagan, and of a lot of super strong riders in the past, is the following..

If they attack or counter attack, everyone who goes with them doesn't really want to co-operate much. So he has to either exhaust himself to stay away and risk losing that sprint. Or fall back to the group and then do a mass sprint, which is much harder to win.

If they stay in the bunch and do not react to an attack, nobody in the bunch will want to work to bring him back, because a fresh Sagan after a hard race is still too hard to beat.

Too strong for his own good.

This exactly. It's not like he's a bad tactician. He's just got to get over more hurdles than most to win. He made the right call today imo.