2010 Vuelta a España wildcards

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offbyone said:
I don't understand this point of view. There is no doubt that the giro is in a whole different league compared to the ToC. But that doesn't mean that radioshack can't make another race more important. They had the 3 time winner on their squad and they have an american sponsor. So naturally, they push the ToC. What is wrong with that? It is their right. It shouldn't be considered a snub, just a choice and one made for reasonable reasons.

The Giro should have nothing to do with the Vuelta. They are during opposite ends of the race season. I never once heard the radioshack team say they didn't want to race the vuelta. This is bs and supposition. Sure, they haven't put a bunch of hype into it, but tell me other then caisse de'pargne what team did?

Nothing wrong with them making the decision to
emphasize the importance of those two races to them. Just like there is nothing wrong with the Vuelta organizers deciding they didn't want them at their race. Both made decisions and both decisions had (or will have) consequences. Radio Shack was under no obligation to ride the Vuelta and the Vuelta was under no obligation to offer them a wildcard.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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By alienating the giro organisers, the vuelta orgainsers have seen this situation and probably seen that they don't want a squad like them who thinks that a 1 week stage race is better than a GT therefore snub it. FDJ and others who skipped the giro had there reasons but the Shack could of sent a very strong sqad to il giro. A lot of the riders will not even ride a GT so for a guy like Steegmans, he would be ****ed off.

RS would hog up too much of the news as they will become "above" the race when they are there. Just interesting that with no Bruyneel squad at the giro caused very open racing. I understand that is to do with the other riders there but it is still an interesting coincidence.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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offbyone said:
<snip> more attention=money to their race.
you see, this phrase is a dead give away and a key to what many americans dont understand about the old continent - money they do respect and desire but that's not the overwhelming and overriding single criteria.

im still pondering over the shack's non-invite, but one thing is becoming apparent to me - someone within radioshack had put too much faith in the organizer's seeing their own event through the american filter.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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I'm looking forward to hear Spanish explanations when the Vuelta goes up the Cima Chechu Rubiera, and he's not participating because they don't think he's good enough......
 
May 26, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
By alienating the giro organisers, the vuelta orgainsers have seen this situation and probably seen that they don't want a squad like them who thinks that a 1 week stage race is better than a GT therefore snub it. FDJ and others who skipped the giro had there reasons but the Shack could of sent a very strong sqad to il giro. A lot of the riders will not even ride a GT so for a guy like Steegmans, he would be ****ed off.

RS would hog up too much of the news as they will become "above" the race when they are there. Just interesting that with no Bruyneel squad at the giro caused very open racing. I understand that is to do with the other riders there but it is still an interesting coincidence.

Who would they have sent to the Giro? Levi and Armstrong were going to the ToC (american race, american sponsor) and Klöden, Horner and Zubeldia needed to peak for the Tour and apparently for the Vuelta as well. That leaves Brajkovic who wouldn't have been an overall contender and was/is apparently peaking for the Dauphine/Vuelta and Steegmans who was meant to ride the spring classics. So please tell me who would have been in their Giro team and we can discuss would it've been useful to send them to Italy...
 
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RdBiker said:
Who would they have sent to the Giro? Levi and Armstrong were going to the ToC (american race, american sponsor) and Klöden, Horner and Zubeldia needed to peak for the Tour and apparently for the Vuelta as well. That leaves Brajkovic who wouldn't have been an overall contender and was/is apparently peaking for the Dauphine/Vuelta and Steegmans who was meant to ride the spring classics. So please tell me who would have been in their Giro team and we can discuss would it've been useful to send them to Italy...

Horner, Kloden or Zubeldia could of led a squad in the giro for the gc and done the tour like vino or have a squad for stage wins with steegmans in there. They could still have two others to lead la vuelta or the rider who leads for the giro can skip the tour for la veulta.
 

Barrus

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There are some who point to the Dauphiné as why RS should be invitied, but is it not more likely that the decision was already made prior to the Dauphiné and really what had RS shown up to that point?
 
Ha ha, brilliant. I love it when old Big Time Bruyneel gets smacked down into place.

Sounds to me like the Hog is getting his balls squeezed from above. Since when was the Vuelta a major target? Since they didn't win the ToC and the sponsors are looking for more of a return on their investment than a win in an obscure (to them) stage race by an obscure (to them) foreign rider and a massive doping scandal involving their marquee name, by the sounds of it.

£10 and a nosebag of Hog Special to the first person who can find a Hog quote stating the Vuelta as a target before June.
 
May 8, 2009
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python said:
you see, this phrase is a dead give away and a key to what many americans dont understand about the old continent - money they do respect and desire but that's not the overwhelming and overriding single criteria.

+1. And I am just astonished (as a Spaniard also) with comments such a Spanish Cycling Mafia, vendetta for Valverde etc....

Is it so difficult to understand????. My 2 cents: The TdF organizer owns the Vuelta. The TdF invited RS before the Landis affaire 2.0. The TdF organizer would have had legal problems if they would have tried to expulse RS from the TdF due to the ongoing investigations. But the Vuelta wildcards give an oportunity to punish RS and Bruyneel. Well done. To play with fire should not be for free. The last thing Vuelta wants is a scandal on home soil that diverts attention from the race.

The Vuelta is not a Spanish race anymore since the owners are French and obviously their bussines depends on the TdF. I am fine with that. On top of that RS intended to diminish the importance of the 3 GTs in favour of an obviously minor tour (ToC), contributing to the obvious non-sense hype that led some people to claim that ToC is the "second biggest tour". Vuelta has no interest in changing the status quo of which races are important and which ones are not.

On a minor level, Vuelta will always try to support the Spanish teams (unlike the ToC with the continental teams in the USA), so Xacobeo or Caja Andalucia will always have a priority. It is not all about money, it is also about having a strong cycling supporting the whole cycling structure. We Spanish fans like that, those guys need to race in a big tour if we want future winners at the TdF. BTW those guys really try hard and their sponsors depend highly on the Vuelta. Maybe in the USA everything is around Armstrong, but in Spain we like to have 10 guys at the top level, and 1/6 of the total riders in the last TdF.
 
offbyone said:
This is all true and I agree with most of what you say. There are certainly a lot of teams that are hoping to make those extra spots. But if the vuelta wants to get bigger it needs to invite the best teams, not the most popular teams internally.
Who said the Vuelta wanted to get bigger? Perhaps Javier Guillén is happy with its current level. Also, in comparison to the Giro and Tour, the Vuelta suffers from a lack of internal support - you will find a lot of flat stages running through areas which are very sparsely populated, and few fans able or willing to turn up in those areas. Perhaps Guillén's opinion is that he'd rather solidify the race's national base before worrying about the Armstrong/Hog audience, which is mostly casual, external and transient, and don't care about the Vuelta, they care about Armstrong/Hog. Solidifying your local base before attempting globalisation is a good business model. Furthermore, the Vuelta a España, like the Giro d'Italia, has always been much more tied in to its nation of origin than the Tour de France.

I still really don't see why the giro participation should be linked to the vuelta. Would the giro organizers even want their b team? Would race fans be cheering if TRS participated in the giro with their b squad? I wouldn't think so.
But the point would have been that they wouldn't have disrespected the Giro. Maybe the team did care about the Vuelta. But they spent so much time saying that the Tour of California and the Tour were the only races that were important to them that Unipublic took that as read, and invited teams that did say they wanted to be at the Vuelta, even if it was only lip service, because at least they respected the race's organisers and the race's tradition and history. RS were acting like their place was sacrosanct, so it doesn't matter if we don't go to the Giro, we'll send Jani, Tiago and Chris to the Vuelta, like it's just a backup plan. Guillén has a right to take umbrage with this. Honour and valour are important factors here.
And again I don't think it is fair to complain that an american team wanted to go to the biggest american race even if it is during a much bigger race in europe. If anything the vuelta organizers should see that radioshack has a deep team and is only racing one GT, they will bring motivation and good riders...
It's fair for Shack to want to go to the Tour of California. But several other teams - Liquigas, Columbia, Garmin, Quick Step, Rabobank, BMC - managed to race both the Giro AND California. BMC! A team most of us have criticised for their lack of depth! The Shack have a very strong roster of 25. I think what was ridiculous was their assertion that they couldn't race the Giro. They could easily have sent a strong 9-man team that the Giro's organisers would have wanted around and still left Levi and Lance in California. Popovych as leader even could have been bought - Popo was 5th overall back in 2004.

When the team were talking about only targeting California and the Tour, others might have accepted that as talking about primary targets. But when a 25-man squad decided that they couldn't send a squad to the second biggest race on the calendar because they had 8 men in California, lots of people might have sat up and took notice and said "whoa, actually they mean it, they really DO only care about California and the Tour".


Maybe JB is too cocky to present his case and no doubt there is something to be said for that. But the way I see it, the Vacansoleil decision really brings the truth out. This decision was based purely on politics, not talent or motivation. Unfortunately for the vuelta this is a lose-lose proposition. Radioshack would have brought a better team than most and more attention=money to their race.

Of the teams that were given wildcard berths: Cervélo's invite was dependent on a guarantee of participation from one of Cervélo's Spanish GT riders. With Sastre having a herniated disc he could well skip the Tour and do it, or Tondó could do it. They had a top 10 rider last year and they have several Spanish talents, with Óscar Pujol in particular having been in good form recently. Xacobeo-Galicia bring a rider who will be DEFINITELY peaking for the Vuelta and who has been top 5 in the last three events. Garmin won 3 of the stages last year (Farrar, Hesjedal and Millar). Andalucía-CajaSur will do the race-animating job (usually more important at the Vuelta since a lot of breaks go, and few people want to attack all day in the searing heat of southern Spain in late August/early September), as well as be interesting in the fight for stages and possibly even overall in the first couple of weeks with Ángel Vicioso and Javier Moreno. Katyusha may have cut a deal last year (they were the one ProTour team to miss out last year, like Shack are this year), and Joaquím Rodríguez has been top 10 in the last two Vueltas despite never having the chance to ride for himself. This race also suits the Catalan.

In reality, it's more a straight fight between Sky and Shack for that final slot, if Cervélo have made their guarantees. And Shack definitely offer the better squad for the race, but Sky obviously made Unipublic feel better about them - Sky had been talking about squads for each Grand Tour before the season, which could be construed as being arrogant, expecting inclusion in all of them, but at the same time it showed right from the beginning of the season that they cared about the Vuelta. Radioshack have gone out of their way to look like they don't care about it, so it's no surprise Unipublic have decided to go with the people who care, because they'd rather have lesser talents duking it out and making the racing good than better talents who they fear don't care.

More attention=money to their race? Well, is it? Would a Lance and possibly Levi-free Radioshack draw in the same number of eyes? Maybe they looked at the audience figures and international coverage of the Volta a Catalunya and Vuelta al País Vasco and decided that actually, having the Shack around didn't do anything for them? Perhaps they're also remembering Astana last year, who brought none of their big names, contributed 4 riders in the top 20 but none in the top 10, never attacked and seldom got in any breaks, and decided "it'll just be that again".
 
Sep 21, 2009
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khardung la said:
+1. And I am just astonished (as a Spaniard also) with comments such a Spanish Cycling Mafia, vendetta for Valverde etc....

Is it so difficult to understand????. My 2 cents: The TdF organizer owns the Vuelta. The TdF invited RS before the Landis affaire 2.0. The TdF organizer would have had legal problems if they would have tried to expulse RS from the TdF due to the ongoing investigations. But the Vuelta wildcards give an oportunity to punish RS and Bruyneel. Well done. To play with fire should not be for free. The last thing Vuelta wants is a scandal on home soil that diverts attention from the race.

The Vuelta is not a Spanish race anymore since the owners are French and obviously their bussines depends on the TdF. I am fine with that. On top of that RS intended to diminish the importance of the 3 GTs in favour of an obviously minor tour (ToC), contributing to the obvious non-sense hype that led some people to claim that ToC is the "second biggest tour". Vuelta has no interest in changing the status quo of which races are important and which ones are not.

On a minor level, Vuelta will always try to support the Spanish teams (unlike the ToC with the continental teams in the USA), so Xacobeo or Caja Andalucia will always have a priority. It is not all about money, it is also about having a strong cycling supporting the whole cycling structure. We Spanish fans like that, those guys need to race in a big tour if we want future winners at the TdF. BTW those guys really try hard and their sponsors depend highly on the Vuelta. Maybe in the USA everything is around Armstrong, but in Spain we like to have 10 guys at the top level, and 1/6 of the total riders in the last TdF.

ASO owns 49% of Unipublic, so no full control of the race. From the wilcard teams, if any, I have doubts about Sky, but they may send EBH and Flecha to hunt stages and get something. The Spanish conti teams are there for obvious reasons. Andalucia is putting big money in the race (3 mountain stages last year, race start this year and rumours of big mountain stages for 2011), so leaving out their home team is not an option. And Xacobeo-Galicia has a good contender and race animator with Mosquera.

The problem here lies in the agreement to get those 16 teams, some of which bring almost nothing to the race. I would get rid of teams who only bring sprinters just to have a race with less control in the flat stages. This year there is only an ITT in the last week, so I would also get rid of Saxo as well, as all they did last year was Fabo's wins in the first week ITT's. The Vuelta doesn't need the likes of the Schleck's if they go home after 10 days. But these are choices that Mr Guillén cannot make to get RS on board.

As a side benefit, he can offer to the pistolero an 'easier' chance to do the double Tour/Vuelta this year and that's something that sells better than a small bald guy and the winner of Dauphiné.

Cima Chechu Rubiera? He's got his name just because he's a nice guy to the fans that discovered the climb but there is no other connection between Chechu and that place. To the knowledgeable cycling fan in the area is pure nonsense. They can just rename it after any other Asturian rider active (e.g., Sam Sanchez, Barredo) or retired.
 
May 5, 2009
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"That’s why - together with the need to perform well in the Tour of California – we skipped the Tour of Italy this year. ”

Why is the hog lying?

The were not invited to the Giro, it's not that RadioShack decided to skip it as he says...

Well, after all these years of lying and denying, he is probably just used to tell his on version of truth.

But, back to the topic, it is definitely not comprehensible, why they didn't invite a roaster with Klöden, Levi and Jani... It seems even in the industry, quite a few players don't like Hog/Pharmstrong crew...
 

Barrus

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la.margna said:
But, back to the topic, it is definitely not comprehensible, why they didn't invite a roaster with Klöden, Levi and Jani... It seems even in the industry, quite a few players don't like Hog/Pharmstrong crew...

Who says Klöden or Levi are going to show up? Also how much have RS done this year to earn those wild cards, excluding the Dauphiné, because this decision was probably taken prior to that?
 
Nov 17, 2009
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Barrus said:
Who says Klöden or Levi are going to show up? Also how much have RS done this year to earn those wild cards, excluding the Dauphiné, because this decision was probably taken prior to that?

Well... they did win a pro-tour level stage race in Pais-Vasco. Not the most prestigious of them, but still a solid win.

RS's results aren't mind blowing... but they're still solid and ahead of what some that did get invited have done. I don't think the lack of invite was based on results on the road.
 
I'm surprised no one has commented upon the implications of this decision, for the remainder of the season.

RS are a stage race team. Other than the Vuelta, there remains only Poland and ENECO, during August and NOTHING during September.

Apart from a couple of HC one dayers in Belgium and France, plus Paris-Tours, the majority of top day races take place in................
...........ITALY.
I can't see a flood of September invites coming through JB's postbox.

Effectively, RS's season mirrors Armstrong's since it all but ends, after the Tour.

Why would riders such Brajkovic's, Marchado etc, wish to remain with a team that has them involuntarily sidelined, from June on?
 
Sep 21, 2009
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They might try at the Vuelta a Burgos in Spain just a few weeks before the Vuelta :D

Isn't there a Tour of England or the like in late summer?
 

Barrus

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kurtinsc said:
Well... they did win a pro-tour level stage race in Pais-Vasco. Not the most prestigious of them, but still a solid win.

RS's results aren't mind blowing... but they're still solid and ahead of what some that did get invited have done. I don't think the lack of invite was based on results on the road.

Weel, let's see

The Spanish teams don't count, because it was always certain at least two Spanish teams would get an invite, as is the case in all stage races, at least two of the country where the stage race takes place.

Cervelo, some stage wins and a solid performance by Sastre in the Giro, especially considering his circumstances and Sastre intention to let the tour go and focus on the vuelta, something which seems more likely now than a few weeks ago

Garmin, quite a few stages in different races and two in the Giro

Sky, quite a few stage wins and a good showing since spring and the intent to at least bring a reasonable team to the start line of the vuelta

Katusha, a lot of aggressive and attractive riding, really showing guts all through the season, next to that quite a lot of stages, with two stage wins at the giro

For interesting riding I'd rank all these teams in front of RS
 
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pugdog said:
I'm looking forward to hear Spanish explanations when the Vuelta goes up the Cima Chechu Rubiera, and he's not participating because they don't think he's good enough......

They already explained it. His team isn't good enough.
 
Jan 18, 2010
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icefire said:
They might try at the Vuelta a Burgos in Spain just a few weeks before the Vuelta :D

Isn't there a Tour of England or the like in late summer?

Yes well, Tour of Britain. Sort of mid September during the Vuelta.

Radioshak could have a team for that like I'm sooo excited by the prospect,(not) but I hope Vacansoliel come and liven the race up.
 
Apr 11, 2009
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BroDeal said:
I imagine the "shock" that Bruyneel felt was similar to what Simeoni felt when he was not invited to the Giro despite being the Italian national champion. Somewhere in Italy there is an Italian with a big smile.

+1 Good point. Fair is fair.
 
Jan 18, 2010
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Beech Mtn said:
Is Sky broadcasting the Vuelta in any of its markets? If so, that could be part of why they got in over RS.

Dont know, possibly.

Still Sky will come to the party and have some decent young racers and will bring something to the race. It wont be a giant Radioshak publicity machine with some highly dubious riders looking to get an overall placing.
 
Nov 17, 2009
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Barrus said:
Weel, let's see

The Spanish teams don't count, because it was always certain at least two Spanish teams would get an invite, as is the case in all stage races, at least two of the country where the stage race takes place.

Cervelo, some stage wins and a solid performance by Sastre in the Giro, especially considering his circumstances and Sastre intention to let the tour go and focus on the vuelta, something which seems more likely now than a few weeks ago

Garmin, quite a few stages in different races and two in the Giro

Sky, quite a few stage wins and a good showing since spring and the intent to at least bring a reasonable team to the start line of the vuelta

Katusha, a lot of aggressive and attractive riding, really showing guts all through the season, next to that quite a lot of stages, with two stage wins at the giro

For interesting riding I'd rank all these teams in front of RS

I guess if interesting riding is the overall goal, then I'd agree. Bruyneel teams aren't known for attacking.

What they do have a several riders attending who in theory could threaten for a podium place. They have podium finishes in the following stage races as well (for what it's worth).

Algrave
Criterium International
Tour of California
Luxembourg
Sardegna
Circuit de la Sarthe
Pais Vasco
and now the Dauphine Libere

And it appears that most of the guys who got those results would in fact be riding the Vuelta (aside from Armstrong's Luxembourg podium).

It's a team that would ride a very boring style... so I see that working against them. But having several riders who could finish in the top 10... well wouldn't that carry some value too?
 
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Anonymous

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kurtinsc said:
I guess if interesting riding is the overall goal, then I'd agree. Bruyneel teams aren't known for attacking.

What they do have a several riders attending who in theory could threaten for a podium place. They have podium finishes in the following stage races as well (for what it's worth).

Algrave
Criterium International
Tour of California
Luxembourg
Sardegna
Circuit de la Sarthe
Pais Vasco
and now the Dauphine Libere

And it appears that most of the guys who got those results would in fact be riding the Vuelta (aside from Armstrong's Luxembourg podium).

It's a team that would ride a very boring style... so I see that working against them. But having several riders who could finish in the top 10... well wouldn't that carry some value too?

Not really. You have a team that sends worn out leaders to a GT for the purpose of getting one of them into the top 10, and no other real goals? Simply because RS feel entitled to ride because they are headed by The Hog does not mean Uni has to acquiesce to their belief. Walking around saying you are the best stage race team does not really cut it when you aren't.