2011 Giro d'Italia, May 7th, Stage 1: Venaria Reale → Torino, 19.3km TTT

[Moviefan1203]

to me, patriotism is taking pride in where you come from. Nationalism is something different entirely, a politically-motivated and potentially dangerous ethos brimming with xenophobic overtones, and I don't think that has a place in sport.

I also really do not understand patriotism/nationalism. Why should I like a guy who was born 200km from me under the same flag more than somebody born 20km from me under a different flag? Why does their birthplace even matter? Some guys are just nice guys and some guys are just not.

Well for me, if I live under the same flag as another then he one of my own. Not that I have anything against someone from say, Canada. But I will always want to see an American do better. I take great pride in my nation and want to see their citizens succeed.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Well for me, if I live under the same flag as another then he one of my own. Not that I have anything against someone from say, Canada. But I will always want to see an American do better. I take great pride in my nation and want to see their citizens succeed.

You're american and don't despise Canada?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Well in cycling as a whole, I think we have grown leaps and bounds in the last thirty years. And we also have a solid young crop of upcoming riders.

I think the US has a golden generation of talents that are ageing and retiring now (and now forever have a certain poison attached to them) - Armstrong, Leipheimer, Landis, Hincapie, Vande Velde, Horner, even Zabriskie.

They have a highly promising and interesting batch of youngsters - van Garderen, Farrar, Phinney, Bookwalter etc.

I just don't see all that much in between. The current crop of youngsters are the guys who were inspired to ride by the Armstrong generation. It remains to be seen how long his legacy is, or if the momentum US cycling has in the junior ranks continues to build or splutters out now that the likes of Armstrong are gone and/or disgraced.

 

[spalco]

Well for me, if I live under the same flag as another then he one of my own. Not that I have anything against someone from say, Canada. But I will always want to see an American do better. I take great pride in my nation and want to see their citizens succeed.

I think that's total nonsense. If another Austrian is an ******* (and many are) I sure as **** won't want to see him win in any competition over a foreigner I like.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Big winners: Machado, Nibali, Scarponi & Contador
Big losers: Kreuzinger, Menchov, Sastre & Rodriguez

I don't think there were any big losers today.
Machado on his own in the mountains of the hardest GT of them all, is unproven.
50 seconds seperate the rest.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see some bigger loses where they aren't expected. Stage 5 for instance.

 

[Parrulo]

pfff, as if..

Nibali has what, 50 seconds on the worst (Anton)?
1x Zoncolan and he has lost that time... and we have far worse than that in this giro

I think Nibali is unhappy he didn't even take a minute out of anyone

the hate is stong in you D_T

 

[Mellow Velo]

Well for me, if I live under the same flag as another then he one of my own. Not that I have anything against someone from say, Canada. But I will always want to see an American do better. I take great pride in my nation and want to see their citizens succeed.

Too bad.
As they have by far the highest proportion of US riders, (I'm sorry I can't remember their names) you are stuck with BMC, then.

 

[Moviefan1203]

I think that's total nonsense. If another Austrian is an ******* (and many are) I sure as **** won't want to see him win in any competition over a foreigner I like.

I respectively disagree, but to each their own.

 

[canyonball]

I also really do not understand patriotism/nationalism. Why should I like a guy who was born 200km from me under the same flag more than somebody born 20km from me under a different flag? Why does their birthplace even matter? Some guys are just nice guys and some guys are just not.

You seem to be a a smart guy, judging on your posts of course. I don't think you really believe it's all about birthplace, right? people from the same country SHARE much more than that. That bond is what makes me cheer from a team or rider from my country. Of course is not all black and white...maybe you born on the tip of spain but feel french, maybe you don't feel spanish or french but just something of your own. Anyway, patriotism in sports is not something I don't understand. On the opposite.

Edit: Machado is up there I see. Only stage 1 of a long Giro so I'm trying not to get to excited about it.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Well for me, if I live under the same flag as another then he one of my own. Not that I have anything against someone from say, Canada. But I will always want to see an American do better. I take great pride in my nation and want to see their citizens succeed.

There are people who live on my road who I can't stand. They're just not my type of people at all. If they were representing the country I don't see why I should be rooting for them, because I don't like them.

What's more, right here, the riders are not representing their countries. If it was national teams it makes a lot of sense. But to claim an American 1-2 when Americans only contributed 1/9th to that success (less if you add in the DSes and so on) strikes me as a bit over-the-top in the flag waving. I don't see why this is a great victory or success for the USA or US cycling, when I don't see anything in it that's going to inspire Americans or that Americans can claim as their own and get behind.

An Italian was granted the right to take the lead ahead of his British team leader (nominally), in a team whose mechanisms are mostly re-appropriated German, followed by a team led by an Australian sprinter and a Portuguese youngster, with a Ukrainian as another potential star option?

USA! USA! USA!

 

[Ferminal]

Popo got dropped?

 

[goggalor]

to me, patriotism is taking pride in where you come from. Nationalism is something different entirely, a politically-motivated and potentially dangerous ethos brimming with xenophobic overtones, and I don't think that has a place in sport.

I also really do not understand patriotism/nationalism. Why should I like a guy who was born 200km from me under the same flag more than somebody born 20km from me under a different flag? Why does their birthplace even matter? Some guys are just nice guys and some guys are just not.

As I understand it, patriotism is identifying with your country (the institution), nationalism is identifying with your nation (the people). I don't see how nationalism is any worse than patriotism.

oh wait this is a cycling forum

 

[El Pistolero]

I think the US has a golden generation of talents that are ageing and retiring now (and now forever have a certain poison attached to them) - Armstrong, Leipheimer, Landis, Hincapie, Vande Velde, Horner, even Zabriskie.

They have a highly promising and interesting batch of youngsters - van Garderen, Farrar, Phinney, Bookwalter etc.

I just don't see all that much in between. The current crop of youngsters are the guys who were inspired to ride by the Armstrong generation. It remains to be seen how long his legacy is, or if the momentum US cycling has in the junior ranks continues to build or splutters out now that the likes of Armstrong are gone and/or disgraced.

I don't even see Farrar as American

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

I think that's total nonsense. If another Austrian is an ******* (and many are) I sure as **** won't want to see him win in any competition over a foreigner I like.

To be fair, if I was Austrian, I'd feel the same too.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

You seem to be a a smart guy, judging on your posts of course. I don't think you really believe it's all about birthplace, right? people from the same country SHARE much more than that. That bond is what makes me cheer from a team or rider from my country.

I feel like I have much more in common with people of similar life experiences in different countries than those with different life experiences in the same country. It's true that the country you are in shapes some of those life experiences, and as a result you are perhaps more likely to share those life experiences with your compatriots, but to extrapolate from that that all people from your country are good people worth your support simply because they are from that country is a little short-sighted imo.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

1 min on 19 k's is a lot... Don't think he actually expected that...

Just before this TTT i searched results of other 20k TTT's. Often the last team is 1'22/1'30 behind... so it's definately possible.
Liqui just wasnt good enough

 

[taiwan]

I definitely think of Garvelo as an american team, Radioshack too, and BMC. HTC is a stretch to me. American owned, and TJVG is on the books, but that's it. If a fair few prominent riders are from one place, then I thiink you can say that nationality characterises a team.

But homerism in cycling is tiresome, IMO.

 

[hrotha]

Just before this TTT i searched results of other 20k TTT's. Often the last team is 1'22/1'30 behind... so it's definately possible.
Liqui just wasnt good enough

Euskaltel was dead last and they still didn't lose that much time. Maybe it's not about Liqui not being good enough, but about the course being easy.

 

[canyonball]

simply because they are from that country

Agree on that

 

[Publicus]

I don't think there were any big losers today.
Machado on his own in the mountains of the hardest GT of them all, is unproven.
50 seconds seperate the rest.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see some bigger loses where they aren't expected. Stage 5 for instance.

Especially if it rains.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

As I understand it, patriotism is identifying with your country (the institution), nationalism is identifying with your nation (the people). I don't see how nationalism is any worse than patriotism.

oh wait this is a cycling forum

You are likely correct with this. The problem is that nationalism, unlike patriotism, is a very loaded word with very negative connotations.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

I feel like I have much more in common with people of similar life experiences in different countries than those with different life experiences in the same country. It's true that the country you are in shapes some of those life experiences, and as a result you are perhaps more likely to share those life experiences with your compatriots, but to extrapolate from that that all people from your country are good people worth your support simply because they are from that country is a little short-sighted imo.

Can you all just sod off to the general forum before I feel obliged to start spitting bile about the international left wing's instinctive dislike of anything that binds people together.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Can you all just sod off to the general forum before I feel obliged to start spitting bile about the international left wing's instinctive dislike of anything that binds people together.

Tribalism is bad, mmmmkay?

 

[Frosty]

To go even further off-topic, i imagine there will be quite a lot of english people supporting Barcelona in the Champions League final rather than the english team Manchester United*, ie Liverpool supporters, Man City supporters. Dont have any idea to what extent you get that in other countries.

Anyway, back on topic, well done to HTC for winning although they were always strong favourites. Main surprise for me was Radioshack coming second (thought they'd do well but not that well) and Omega Pharma Lotto finishing 4th in the same time as 3rd.

*i know there are lots of foreigners but they are a team based in england.

 

[The Hitch]

So is Strade Bianchi in or not? I thought it was but then Harmonn and sidekick said that "there is no Strade Bianchi this year", so is it a different mud section on stage 5 or what?