2011 Tour de France Stage 16 (18/7/2011): Saint-Paul-Trois-Châteaux - Gap, 162.5km

[King Of The Wolds]

Maybe personal attacks is a bit much, but he doesn't do it for our entertainment. He does it for the money, the fame and mostly for the glory. If he was doing it for our entertainment he'd be more entertaining.

I don't begrudge him his success, but he is a frustrating rider. So much talent that he just doesn't seem confident or keen enough to use. You'd expect him to be the kind of rider I love, but I just don't seem to be enthused by him. One day he's got to strike out on his own. Martin Fourcade doesn't wait for his brother to come out the penalty loop, Aimar Olaizola doesn't throw league matches to get his older brother through to the next round, Andy Schleck shouldn't wait for his brother when the Tour de France is at stake either.

To tell the truth, I always thought Fränk was overrated and to an extent still do, and I always held that Puerto link and how it was conveniently forgotten against him. But Fränk's a more entertaining rider than Andy and despite being the less talented brother, has compiled the better palmarès. Well, in terms of victories anyway.

The criticism of his tactics is fair enough. That said, much of that is with regards to his perceived lack of attacking, an accusation made by people not in his body, with no idea of how he's feeling, at the sharp end, and in Week 3, of a Grand Tour.

His recent comments smack of somebody who is lacking focus and confidence. How many of us have been asked to do something in our job, not fancied it much and moaned like hell to anyone who'll listen? I know I have. Of course, we have the advantage of not having having the world's press under our noses.

As I said, he's lacking in confidence, focus, maybe even motivation and showing some immaturity, but the personal stuff have left a bad taste.

All said, I still think he can win this race.

 

[Tank Engine]

Got to respect Thor, although I was supporting EBH of course. Glad to see some real GC action. Contador has stepped up a notch and still needs time, so there'll not be any ***** footing around from now on. Nice to see Uran move up, it's looking good for the white jersey, as on Thursday and Friday he should be feeling right at home.
In the green jersey, a good day for Cav, as Phil and Rojas needed to score heavily today, but just got a couple of points.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Oh, I still think he can win this race. But like those that said Rojas could win the green jersey, I have some serious doubts over whether he will.

 

[killswitch]

http://sporten.tv2.dk/cykling/article.php/id-41855557:tourtv-se-dagens-etapeaf****ning.html

Second video is from Bertie's attack (region locked?).

Edit: http://bit.ly/pfRKMG

Thanks.

 

[jobiwan]

There is a middle ground.

There was a college football coach at the University of Florida who was very well known for trash talking, one Steve Spurrier. But while he talked trash, he also owned up to shortcomings.

I'm a graduate of the University of Georgia, and Spurrier ragged on us constantly. One year he was asked if Florida could beat UGA. UGA's coach at the time was named Ray Goff. Spurrier said "Does that Ray Goof fella still coach UGA? What do you think?"

A few years later, UGA finally beat Florida after a long string of losses. When asked what happened, he said "Georgia was just better then us. That's all you can say."

Talking trash is fine... making excuses or blaming others is not.

Ah Steve Spurrier.
I'm a UT fan, and his comment "You Can't Spell Citrus Bowl without UT" still irks me.

But Spurrier, yes is a pretty classy guy. (I realize that's OT )

 

[Grayguard]

The criticism of his tactics is fair enough. That said, much of that is with regards to his perceived lack of attacking, an accusation made by people not in his body, with no idea of how he's feeling, at the sharp end, and in Week 3, of a Grand Tour.

His recent comments smack of somebody who is lacking focus and confidence. How many of us have been asked to do something in our job, not fancied it much and moaned like hell to anyone who'll listen? I know I have. Of course, we have the advantage of not having having the world's press under our noses.

As I said, he's lacking in confidence, focus, maybe even motivation and showing some immaturity, but the personal stuff have left a bad taste.

All said, I still think he can win this race.

While I respect what you're saying, part of his job is to speak to the press... and *that* means he has to think about what he is saying, and how it is perceived. Alot of the things he has said lately is harming himself - and thus his team. It's just not professional.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Oh, I still think he can win this race. But like those that said Rojas could win the green jersey, I have some serious doubts over whether he will.

No, not will. But can. Right now, given his mental state, rather than position in GC, I think Evans, Contador and his brother are all better bets. I think he should probably ride for Frank now.

 

[Angliru]

Evans also changed as a rider, I hear it everywhere, ''Evans is a different rider post WC''. I have seen that change as well. Thus, I do not think it is only his luck that has taken a turn for the better. I am not underestimating the crash, I never did. I was just pointing out that he hasn't been up to his normal standards all year up to this point - and with good reason. He's just dealing with the psychological ramifications of the sad occurrence we know all to well and maybe just needed some more time off to get through it. I know what he is capable of, which is why I'm a fan. However, I refuse to share the delusions that certain people want to use as an excuse in my opinion. I really hope he could one day show his true potential without anything holding him back.

Everything in your post was on point until you reached the end. This is what is always brought up in Evans' defense as if he's the only rider that has had obstacles to overcome. Dude is in the twilight of his career, has there been nothing but obstacles in his way throughout his long career, stopping him from dominating the sport? Why can't it just be that he's had a great career and leave it at that without the excuses about what could've been if not for......?

 

[Angliru]

Frank gets my respect. No bull****, just honest stuff.

Same here. As I've stated, Andy could learn alot from his big brother.

 

[Angliru]

Lol cant believe Andy's whining over the route. He actually said that ppl dont wanna see races being decided on decents. He didnt complain much after stage 1, where he told Bertie to use his head. Well Bertie could tell him to use his bicycle handling skils after today (0;

I completely forgot about that quote. So much material I've forgotten some of the best stuff!

 

[auscyclefan94]

I am bloody ****eed off, I decided at 12:15am that I was too tired to actually get up from bed and watch the stage and went back to sleep and then I find a great, dominationg peformance by the almighty Cadel Evans in the morning that I have missed!!!!

There are now talks of a Cadel Evans Day which I would be all for! It would be a national holiday!

 

[VeloCity]

Mentality of a winner =/= trashtalking

The trash talking that goes on around here by weekend warriors is a bit ridiculous, don't you think?

 

[Cobblestones]

The trash talking that goes on around here by weekend warriors is a bit ridiculous, don't you think?

But none of us claims to be a great winner.

 

[The Hitch]

I am bloody ****eed off, I decided at 12:15am that I was too tired to actually get up from bed and watch the stage and went back to sleep and then I find a great, dominationg peformance by the almighty Cadel Evans in the morning that I have missed!!!!

There are now talks of a Cadel Evans Day which I would be all for! It would be a national holiday!

Well it would be sweet to see the reception Cadel would get in Australia, and hopefully he would not break his promise to ride the Vuelta, for which having the TDF champ there would do wonders.

 

[No_Balls]

Andy can complain all he wants, fact is that Contador already dropped him on the climb, Andy just couldn't follow. That's a great confidence booster for Contador and he has the mental advantage over Andy now.

This. As much as time were gained on the descent, the fact is that Andy was dropped by Contador going uphill. Bodes for a uncertain future for the Schlecks.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Well it would be sweet to see the reception Cadel would get in Australia, and hopefully he would not break his promise to ride the Vuelta, for which having the TDF champ there would do wonders.

Yes that's true. BoB Hawke (former Aus PM) said that if anyone sacked an employee for coming late to work the day after the America Cup Boat race after the win by Australia is a bum. That is what it is being compared to.

 

[VeloCity]

But none of us claims to be a great winner.

Which makes it even more ridiculous.

 

[Angliru]

The personal denigration of the Schleck's is getting a bit out of hand. Saying that Andy needs girl panties or pink tutu's while sitting in front of your computer watching him do something you are totally incapable of doing? Really? He's a thousand times the athlete and cyclist you or I or any of us will ever be. Who cares if he whines once in a while? He's still a kid, he's under enormous pressure, he's frustrated, he had a bad day, of course he might say something dumb. Contador has, too. So has Evans. So has every other pro cyclist out there.

All of these guys deserve respect, from Voeckler on down to Bakkazakova - criticize their tactics, their rides, etc, sure, but is there really any need for the personal disparagement?

Andy is 25-26 years old. He's a man in a man's sport in a man's world, making man's money. When you court the camera in good times, expect to see it also when the times are rough. It's how one handles themselves when things aren't going their way that makes true champion.

They are jokes. You know what jokes are don't you? When I see you come to the defense of Contador for all the demeaning names that have been bestowed upon him over the years then we'll take you as a true man of high moral fiber. I won't do a search of all your posts as some have done on me but I'm sure if you have come to the defense of riders other than Andy (who you likely are a fan of, not that there's anything wrong with that) in the same way be sure to correct me for my error.

 

[Cobblestones]

Which makes it even more ridiculous.

No. Self-depreciation is endearing. Self aggrandizing is not.

 

[Jeanne]

not sure if anyone has mentioned this before, but after stage 16, the gap in gc between Schleck and Contador...is...39 seconds

seriously? Life is so full of irony!

Dammit, the first stage I couldn't watch and of course TODAY I missed something!

 

[H2OUUP2]

Well, it's not that he doesn't speak well - it's what he *says* while speaking

Very true. Thanks for the edit.

 

[Angliru]

I can't take credit for that photo, I think pantani_lives either made it or originally posted it on the forum. It's a classic, though. Makes me laugh every time

Jobiwan I know this is tough time but in all sincerity, I believe Andy will mature to become a Tour winner. Frank and their Dad will likely take Andy aside and point out the error of his ways, thus making him a better rider and better able to deal with disappointment. One of his former ds's, I can't remember which made a statement that Andy hates to train and prefers to race. Maybe his mindset is what needs to change and he will push himself more as a result of what is taking place.

I made a post recently that I thought that maybe Andy had gotten complacent and believed as a result of the results of last year's Tour, that he had bridged the talent gap to Contador, felt entitled to win the 2011 Tour what with his being robbed (his delusional belief) of the 2010 Tour win. What with Contador's Giro participation and the potential for his not being cleared to ride the Tour or at best arriving at the Tour with a tough Giro in his legs, Andy may have felt the Tour win would be a cakewalk, thus didn't put in the hard training and racing that he really needed to. Just my observation and opinion.

Nevertheless it still isn't over yet. We've got 4 more important stages to go.

 

[El Pistolero]

I am bloody ****eed off, I decided at 12:15am that I was too tired to actually get up from bed and watch the stage and went back to sleep and then I find a great, dominationg peformance by the almighty Cadel Evans in the morning that I have missed!!!!

There are now talks of a Cadel Evans Day which I would be all for! It would be a national holiday!

You mean dominating Contador. As long as it went uphill.

 

[Angliru]

And if Andy was nice and polite and said a bunch of neutral, non-controversial stuff, he'd be slammed for being boring and not having the mentality of a winner.

As Fabian said of Nick Nuyens (although unfairly and without much class): "He's not a winner". Andy's attitude and ego far exceeds his actual significant wins. I mean the number of time he's stood on the top step of the podium at a World/Pro Tour stage race event, or was first across the line in a single day event. He won LBL and he should be commended for that. He's made the Tour and Giro second podium step and won 2 Tour stages, although one was gifted to him and the other he lucked up and won because Samu cramped up in one-on-one sprint that Andy wouldn't have won 10 out of 10 times.

Great talent, mediocre maturity translates into a poor sportman.

 

[VeloCity]

Andy is 25-26 years old. He's a man in a man's sport in a man's world, making man's money. When you court the camera in good times, expect to see it also when the times are rough. It's how one handles themselves when things aren't going their way that makes true champion.

And athletes, like all human beings, say dumb things sometimes. But instead of saying "ok, that was a dumb thing to say", it's pink tutu's and being called a p**sy, among other derogatory names, by people who don't have a fraction of his talent or have to go through what he goes through on a daily basis.

They are jokes. You know what jokes are don't you?

Calling someone a p**sy is not a joke, it's intended to be demeaning and derogatory.

When I see you come to the defense of Contador for all the demeaning names that have been bestowed upon him over the years then we'll take you as a true man of high moral fiber. I won't do a search of all your posts as some have done on me but I'm sure if you have come to the defense of riders other than Andy (who you likely are a fan of, not that there's anything wrong with that) in the same way be sure to correct me for my error.

I'm not a fan of Andy's.

You don't think it's a bit ridiculous for posters on an internet forum who couldn't for a second do what Andy does on a daily basis to be calling him a p***y?