2013 Paris Nice

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will10

will10

Dec 27, 2010
6,674
1
0
Dazed and Confused said:
agree, parcours seems debateable, but on a stage like this

PROFIL-04.png


there are lots of opportunity to race even from km 0, if we have any brave riders in the peloton.

I can see De Gendt or Voeckler doing something here.
Click to expand...

yeah, like losing ten minutes and then winning from the break ;)

It's a nicely designed stage. But we won't see anything in terms of GC action until the final two climbs. At the earliest.
 
F

Ferminal

Jul 3, 2009
18,948
5
22,485
Generally need gradients >5% to even attempt staying away.

There's a reasonable (for a medium mountain stage) amount of climbing in the first 150km but only about 5-10km over 5%. If it's not a breakaway, the stage will be won on the descent of the final climb like Evans last year (although hopefully someone attacks the penultimate hill which wasn't there in June).
 
D

Dazed and Confused

Jan 27, 2012
14,331
1,565
25,680
will10 said:
yeah, like losing ten minutes and then winning from the break ;)

It's a nicely designed stage. But we won't see anything in terms of GC action until the final two climbs. At the earliest.
Click to expand...

Ferminal said:
Generally need gradients >5% to even attempt staying away.

There's a reasonable (for a medium mountain stage) amount of climbing in the first 150km but only about 5-10km over 5%. If it's not a breakaway, the stage will be won on the descent of the final climb like Evans last year (although hopefully someone attacks the penultimate hill which wasn't there in June).
Click to expand...


Agree, it will be difficult to put the "true" GC under pressure and if any serious players wants to do it, they must tank an earlier stage. Stiil, looking forward to it.
 
L

Linkinito

Sep 29, 2012
325
1
0
That Lure stage is sooo bad. It was possible to do much better, in a shorter distance:

1361653512-alternateroute.png

(The altitudes are not right)
Km 48: Col des Abeilles - 996 m - 11.9 km @ 5.9% (Cat. 1)
Km 69: Col de la Liguière - 998 m - 3.4 km @ 4.3% (Cat. 3)
Km 99: Col de Lagarde d'Apt - 1105 m - 11 km @ 7.1% (Cat. 1)
Km 127: Côte de Banon - 787 m - 3.3 km @ 4.0% (Cat. 3)
Km 160: Montagne de Lure - 1600 m - 13.8 km @ 6.6% (Cat. 1)

Much harder than the joke we have here.
 
L

Linkinito

Sep 29, 2012
325
1
0
Netserk said:
Hi Linkinito

Have you ever seen the Race Design Thread? :)

You seem to have the creativity to make some meaningful contributes.
Click to expand...
I know it, and I've already designed whole Tours (but not that much) :) But it was on a french website. I might transfer them here, if I feel it :)
 
Pentacycle

Pentacycle

May 28, 2012
2,779
0
0
Parrulo said:
welcome to the ASO
Click to expand...

Normally it's pointless to have many climbs in preparation races, adding more climbs doesn't necessarily deliver exciting races. And if all stages are this tough, no one will dare to start unless they're aiming to get a GC result.

This year's PN is well designed. It gives the opportunity for classics specialist to try and win a stage in the windy opening stages. The prologue suits them as well. The second half of the race is perfect for climbers, punchers and baroudeurs. And its difficulty is perfect for the time of the season, and to prevent the combination of bad weather and tough descents.

Tirreno for example probably offers three interesting stages this year, namely a MTF, a hilly stage and the final 9,2km TT. About the TTT and three sprint stages however, we're lucky PN stages end just before the sprints, so we don't get to see a total borefest for 3 hours.
(Sprint stages of 230 kms are imho more about the mental confidence a rider can get about winning a >200 km stage, while in reality it's still nothing compared to MSR)
 
Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
45,459
27,947
28,180
Pentacycle said:
Normally it's pointless to have many climbs in preparation races, adding more climbs doesn't necessarily deliver exciting races. And if all stages are this tough, no one will dare to start unless they're aiming to get a GC result.

This year's PN is well designed. It gives the opportunity for classics specialist to try and win a stage in the windy opening stages. The prologue suits them as well. The second half of the race is perfect for climbers, punchers and baroudeurs. And its difficulty is perfect for the time of the season, and to prevent the combination of bad weather and tough descents.

Tirreno for example probably offers three interesting stages this year, namely a MTF, a hilly stage and the final 9,2km TT. About the TTT and three sprint stages however, we're lucky PN stages end just before the sprints, so we don't get to see a total borefest for 3 hours.
(Sprint stages of 230 kms are imho more about the mental confidence a rider can get about winning a >200 km stage, while in reality it's still nothing compared to MSR)
Click to expand...

Have you seen which way they take the loop in stage 3? False flat uphill with a steep descent (on a narrow road) downhill followed by a long stretch of flat. If they took the other way around, it would have been a steeper ascent, with a none-steep descent on wider roads without any flat after the descent.

It's like ASO did the absolute opposite thing of what you suggested for the stage 3 loop.
 
Pentacycle

Pentacycle

May 28, 2012
2,779
0
0
Netserk said:
Have you seen which way they take the loop in stage 3? False flat uphill with a steep descent (on a narrow road) downhill followed by a long stretch of flat. If they took the other way around, it would have been a steeper ascent, with a none-steep descent on wider roads without any flat after the descent.

It's like ASO did the absolute opposite thing of what you suggested for the stage 3 loop.
Click to expand...

Indeed a tricky road, in bad shape. Luckily there are only two difficult corners on the descent. I hadn't really studied the route with such care for detail but it looks like it'd better not rain during those stages. However the windy(corners etc.) way back to the finish gives a break more chance to keep out of sight as well, giving them a better shot at victory.
 
Libertine Seguros

Libertine Seguros

Feb 20, 2010
32,516
14,306
28,180
Pentacycle said:
Normally it's pointless to have many climbs in preparation races, adding more climbs doesn't necessarily deliver exciting races. And if all stages are this tough, no one will dare to start unless they're aiming to get a GC result.

This year's PN is well designed. It gives the opportunity for classics specialist to try and win a stage in the windy opening stages. The prologue suits them as well. The second half of the race is perfect for climbers, punchers and baroudeurs. And its difficulty is perfect for the time of the season, and to prevent the combination of bad weather and tough descents.

Tirreno for example probably offers three interesting stages this year, namely a MTF, a hilly stage and the final 9,2km TT. About the TTT and three sprint stages however, we're lucky PN stages end just before the sprints, so we don't get to see a total borefest for 3 hours.
(Sprint stages of 230 kms are imho more about the mental confidence a rider can get about winning a >200 km stage, while in reality it's still nothing compared to MSR)
Click to expand...
The stage into Nice is indefensible.
 
Libertine Seguros

Libertine Seguros

Feb 20, 2010
32,516
14,306
28,180
Pentacycle said:
It's somewhat similar to the stage Lulu won in 2009, with 30 kms added. What's the problem with that?
Click to expand...
That it isn't at all like the stage Lulu won in 2009, and that the last climb of any substance is more than 70km from the finish, yet it isn't exposed enough to suggest any rouleur action either. It's more like the stage Tondó won in 2010, but with an easier final climb, and with an additional 35km of uninteresting terrain before the finish.

Look at the classic Nice-Nice stages of the last few years... THAT is how to finish a stage on the Promenade des Anglais. Not with 70km of gradual downhill to ensure that the only chance of any action is if a guy in the top 5 falls over descending and Team Sky throw a temper tantrum until everybody waits for them to catch up even though they keep falling over.
 
Pentacycle

Pentacycle

May 28, 2012
2,779
0
0
Imo the stage has similar potential, those 20 kms of climbing won't go unnoticed. If the Montagne de Lure won't have separated the men from the boys this could still be a decider.

Just think about a scenario where several teams put their men up front for later support. The field isn't that strong, so lack of a team for the yellow jersey might lead to a similar change of leadership as it did in 2009. After all it's the last opportunity to gain time against better climbers.

And it's a tradition to have a normal stage end in Nice. It's just all hate and prejudice here. Why would you even watch a race if you've decided in advance it won't deliver?
 
Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
45,459
27,947
28,180
Pentacycle said:
Imo the stage has similar potential, those 20 kms of climbing won't go unnoticed. If the Montagne de Lure won't have separated the men from the boys this could still be a decider.

Just think about a scenario where several teams put their men up front for later support. The field isn't that strong, so lack of a team for the yellow jersey might lead to a similar change of leadership as it did in 2009. After all it's the last opportunity to gain time against better climbers.

And it's a tradition to have a normal stage end in Nice. It's just all hate and prejudice here. Why would you even watch a race if you've decided in advance it won't deliver?
Click to expand...
I'm not deciding it won't deliver (ASO did), I'm predicting it won't deliver (the Nice stage) ;)

EDIT: Example of well designed Nice stage (not that long ago either):

PROFIL7.gif
 
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