2015 Spring Classics CQ game

[Armchair cyclist]

New header (The lower part of this message is the original post to start the discussion: the first part is the headline information)
Teams12 riders, to a budget of 3000 points from the 31 December 2014 download: this spreadsheet at Dropbox might help.
All riders available (except Valverde, who single handedly would put a team over budget), no distinct doper rules.

Scoring CQ points gained in following 20 one day races:
28/2 Omloop Het Nieuwsblad - 1.HC
28/2 Sud Ardeche - 1.1
1/3 Kuurne-Brussel-Kuurne - 1.1
1/3 Drome Classic - 1.1
1/3 GP di Lugano - 1.HC
4/3 Le Samyn - 1.1
7/3 Strade Bianche - 1.HC
18/3 Nokere Koerse - 1.1
22/3 Milano - Sanremo - 1.WT1
25/3 Dwars door Vlaanderen - 1.HC
26/3 Classica Corsica - 1.1
27/3 E3 Harelbeke - 1.WT2
29/3 Gent - Wevelgem - 1.WT2
5/4 Ronde van Vlaanderen - 1.WT1
8/4 Scheldeprijs - 1.HC
12/4 Paris - Roubaix - 1.WT1
15/4 Brabantse Pijl - 1.HC
19/4 Amstel Gold Race - 1.WT2
22/4 La Fl?che Wallonne - 1.WT2
26/4 Li?ge - Bastogne - Li?ge - 1.WT1
Results will be taken as final after full results of LBL are published: subsequent alterations doe to disqualifications will not be considered part of the game.

Entering
PM to me either at CN or at Velorooms (the latter preferable if you are registered at both because of mailbox size limitations and handling of diacritics) by the beginning of the Omloop on Saturday 28 February (10:45 am GMT)
Please submit names in CQ format (easily cut and pasted from the dropbox spreadsheet above) with nothing else on each line. Depending on what spare time I have when I open the message, I reserve the right to send teams back for the manager to format correctly.
Entrants as of 00:30 on Saturday 26th (UK time):
AG
Akuryo
Armchair
Asdfgh101
CaptCavman
Comodoro
Crevaison
Del1962
DJSprtsch
DJW
GeraintTooFast
GPBlanco
Hugo87
Jancouver
Joelsim
JosephD
JustSomeGuy
Kazistuta
LaVelocipede
Leadbelly
LosBrolin
Murrjt
Oliveira
PBlazer
RoteLaterne
Scrool07
Search
Trudgin
*: Issue with selection, manager informed

What follows is the initial starter to the thread.
Tradition (if something that started 2 years ago can claim to have its own established traditions) has the Classics season competition as 12 riders and 3000 pts budget based on 31 December GQ download.

We normally have started from the Omloop, and finished with Liege-Bastogne-Liege. The WT races have been unquestioned for inclusion, but which HC and 1.1 races have been included has always been a matter for debate.

To try to establish some principle into that debate, rather than a matter of like/dislike, I noted last year the number of WT teams that took part in each race that either was, or could potentially have been, included. (WT races not included in this list, no need to argue over their inclusion, and by definition they had 18 WT teams taking part last year)

WT Teams/ Race/ observations
14 Scheldeprijs 1.HC, included 2013 and 14
14 Dwars door Vlaanderen 1.HC, included 2013 and 14
11 Kuurne - Brussel - Kuurne Included 2013 and 14
11 Strade Bianche Included 2013 and 14
11 Omloop Het Nieuwsblad 1.HC, included 2013 and 14
9 GP Citta di Camaiore Added in 2014
9 Roma Maxima Included 2013 and 14
8 Classic Sud Ard?che
8 Valence Dr?me Classic
8 Brabantse Pijl 1.HC, included 2013 and 14
7 Nokere Koerse
6 Le Samyn
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

5 GP La Marseillaise Before Omloop
5 Handzame Classic
5 GP de Denain
4 GP di Lugano Included 2013 and 14
4 GP Nobili Rubinetterie
4 Rund um den Finanzplatz Eschborn 1.HC after Liege-B-L
3 Trofeo Laigueglia Before Omloop
3 Classic Loire Atlantique
3 GP Cholet - Pays De Loire
3 Route Ad?lie de Vitr?
3 GP Miguel Indurain Included 2013 and 14
3 Paris - Camembert
3 Tour du Finist?re
3 Tro-Bro L?on Added in 2014
3 La Roue Tourangelle
3 GP de la Somme 1.HC after Liege-B-L
2 GP Costa degli Etruschi Before Omloop
2 Ronde van Drenthe
2 Dwars door Drenthe
2 Volta Limburg Classic
2 Vuelta a La Rioja
2 GP Pino Cerami
1 Vuelta a Murcia Added in 2014
1 Clasica de Almeria
1 Klasika Primavera Included 2013 and 14
1 Rund um K?ln


On the basis of this, I suggest that we drop 6 races on the grounds of a low participation rate (<1/3) by top teams, as indicated by the dotted line. Thus we would lose Murcia, Almeria (which are both much earlier this year, 2 weeks before Omloop) Indurain, Primavera, Tro-Bro Leon and Lugano (of which more to follow). These races made up 27% of the events last year, but only 2.7 % of the occasions on which selected riders scored points.

In their place, by the criterion of WT participation, I suggest we add in Sud Ardeche, Drome, Nokere Koerse and Le Samyn. I note that Lugano has been upgraded to 1.HC: if there is evidence that there will be at least 6 WT teams, then consistency would suggest that it could be reprieved. I also see a new (or at least revived) race, Classica Corsica, on the calendar: is it likely to have an impressive field?

So I suggest that the programme should be:
28/2 Omloop Het Nieuwsblad - 1.HC
28/2 Sud Ardeche - 1.1
1/3 Kuurne-Brussel-Kuurne - 1.1
1/3 Drome Classic - 1.1
1/3 GP di Lugano - 1.HC ????
4/3 Le Samyn - 1.1
5/3 G.P. Camaiore - 1.1
7/3 Strade Bianche - 1.HC (upgraded: hooray!!)
8/3 Roma Maxima - 1.1 (I see it on the calendar, but I thought I had read of its demise)
18/3 Nokere Koerse - 1.1
22/3 Milano - Sanremo - 1.WT1
25/3 Dwars door Vlaanderen - 1.HC
26/3 Classica Corsica - 1.1 ????
27/3 E3 Harelbeke - 1.WT2
29/3 Gent - Wevelgem - 1.WT2
5/4 Ronde van Vlaanderen - 1.WT1
8/4 Scheldeprijs - 1.HC
12/4 Paris - Roubaix - 1.WT1
15/4 Brabantse Pijl - 1.HC
19/4 Amstel Gold Race - 1.WT2
22/4 La Fl?che Wallonne - 1.WT2
26/4 Li?ge - Bastogne - Li?ge - 1.WT1


Other than these changes to the programme, I would like to propose a change to the rider prices policy: rather than charge returning dopers at a pre-punishment CQ price, that they, like anyone else, be priced per their 2014 price. Reasons: convenience to organiser, not our place to censor selection, not the only reason some riders are cheap.

Before I invite any submission of teams, any observations on the above, or info about Lugano/Corsica fields?

 

[GP Blanco]

The Corsica race is only two days before the Criterium International. I think it will be mainly a pre-Criterium International race which means it won't add much. At least I wouldn't call it a proper classic.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I would add TBL.

But I have only limited interest in playing games as such, but would to see unique and special races being supported via these initiatives.

RM has been cancelled.

And yea, I will submit a team.

 

[del1962]

I agree on the minimum number of world tour teams and for that reason Tro-Bro Leon should not be included

 

[Roude Leiw]

The Corsica race is only two days before the Criterium International. I think it will be mainly a pre-Criterium International race which means it won't add much. At least I wouldn't call it a proper classic.

I second that, no history on top. If it turns out to be awesome, include it next year

Tro bro out, not enough WT teams, if they up them, you can still include as it is a nice race and in the spirit of the classics

 

[mutschi]

I go with whatever you propose Armchair Cyclist - looks like you did a very thorough analysis that makes a lot of sense. Most points are scored in the WT events so I don't think it matters that much for the outcome of the game which minor races are included or not. Thanks for putting up the game again - one I struggle with every year but still enjoy very much.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

So this is the official launch: the races are:

28/2 Omloop Het Nieuwsblad - 1.HC
28/2 Sud Ardeche - 1.1
1/3 Kuurne-Brussel-Kuurne - 1.1
1/3 Drome Classic - 1.1
1/3 GP di Lugano - 1.HC
4/3 Le Samyn - 1.1
7/3 Strade Bianche - 1.HC
18/3 Nokere Koerse - 1.1
22/3 Milano - Sanremo - 1.WT1
25/3 Dwars door Vlaanderen - 1.HC
26/3 Classica Corsica - 1.1
27/3 E3 Harelbeke - 1.WT2
29/3 Gent - Wevelgem - 1.WT2
5/4 Ronde van Vlaanderen - 1.WT1
8/4 Scheldeprijs - 1.HC
12/4 Paris - Roubaix - 1.WT1
15/4 Brabantse Pijl - 1.HC
19/4 Amstel Gold Race - 1.WT2
22/4 La Fl?che Wallonne - 1.WT2
26/4 Li?ge - Bastogne - Li?ge - 1.WT1

I have included Lugano and Corsica, not on the grounds of them having earned it last year, but because there is reason to believe that Lugano might have a better field this year, and because if most teams that ride the Criterium International take part in the "clasica", that would meet the 1/3 WT teams expectation. And because we have lost the Roma Maxima and Camaiore. The vast bulk of the points will be from higher ranked races anyway.



So: 17 days and 8 hours to go, 12 riders, 3000 point budget on 31/12/2014 prices (for all riders, suspensions during 2014 notwithstanding)

Good luck all

 

[rote_laterne]

Thanks for running the game.

So: 17 days and 8 hours to go

Just to be clear, deadline is 27/02 midnight CET?

 

[Armchair cyclist]

Midnight UK time at the start of Omloop day (28 Feb)

 

[Hugo87]

Always an interesting competition, with some unique picks making all the difference.
Sadly Roma Maxima is over... No more long range attacks from Valverde there.

Will try to improve from last year.

Thanks AC!

 

[del1962]

Always an interesting competition, with some unique picks making all the difference.
Sadly Roma Maxima is over... No more long range attacks from Valverde there.

Will try to improve from last year.

Thanks AC!

Valverde is illegible for this game anyway

 

[murali]

AC, can you please post the xls file?

I am thinking of doing this for the first time. (missed last year's deadline by 2 days )

 

[DJ Sprtsch]

I'm in as well - only two weeks away!

 

[rote_laterne]

Just sent my team, without two riders who will IMO dominate the not hilly races.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

A week and a day to go, 10 teams in so far:
AG
Akuryo
Armchair
Comodoro
DJW
Joelsim
JustSomeGuy
RoteLaterne
Scrool07
Trudgin

(I have a nagging fear that I might have deleted one or more teams that were submitted early on: early entrants please check)

Already 67 riders nominated: 5 in at least half the teams, 43 unique picks.

Because of the current inability of CN Forums to handle diacritics, it would be handy if those who also have a log in at Velorooms could post there rather than here. (I guess it would also be handy if people restricted their teams to anglophones or others with unadorned letters, but that is scarcely a fair restriction.)

AC, can you please post the xls file?

I am thinking of doing this for the first time. (missed last year's deadline by 2 days )

What xls file? The price list is the end of year prices at CQ.

 

[murali]

What xls file? The price list is the end of year prices at CQ.

(I am used to looking at the excel file for picking the lowest price riders.)

just 3 guys i want out together cross 3000 points

 

[Armchair cyclist]

AC, can you please post the xls file?

I'm not sure if this is what you mean, but considering the proportion of submitted teams that have been overbudget, making this spreadsheet available might save time in the long run. It will also help managers format the names properly.

2015 Classics CQ Game selector spreadsheet at Dropbox.

 

[asdfgh101]

Entered. Went for a mid-priced leader, 10 riders i thought were good value and a young cheap rider because i didn't have may points left.

Thanks for running AC ;-)

 

[Roude Leiw]

Valverde is illegible for this game anyway

I thought first why? And then i got it

 

[NairoQ]

The puzzling is ongoing. I seem to find my budget large enough, the main difficulty is whether or not to include a certain rider here - something which will be of main importance.

 

[Hugo87]

The puzzling is ongoing. I seem to find my budget large enough, the main difficulty is whether or not to include a certain rider here - something which will be of main importance.

Waiting for a competitive team from you.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

28 teams so far: 123 riders selected of whom 65 are unique picks and 2 are on at least half of the teams.

I'm not sure why I had put midnight as a closing time: I'm not likely to do anything between then and the beginning of the Omloop that will make any difference to accumulating the results, so I'll extend the closing time until the start of that race, 10:45 am GMT on Saturday.

So those who really like to leave things until the last minute can compile a team between their Friday night drinking session and their Saturday morning ride...

 

[NairoQ]

Waiting for a competitive team from you.

Looking forward to it too

and 2 are on at least half of the teams.

I can imagine one, but can only guess about the second one.

I'm having 4 riders I really want in my team between 40-90 points, and including them all puts me 15 points over budget. These kind of things always tend to completely shift my team around, let's hope not with bad effects.

 

[murali]

thank you AC for running the game.

just remembered now about the deadline.

PMed a very simple team. I am going to fight for the last spot

 

[MADRAZO]

Have also just submitted my team now

Was very much in doubt about the 3 last spaces, either the combo with 1 rather expensive rider and 2 cheap ones or the other one with 3 good midpriced riders. In the end one of the combis gave exactly 3000 points so took that as a sign I had to choose that one, now I could not decide otherwice.