2016, 70th Tour de Romandie, April 26th - May 1st, WT

[carolina]

Re: Re:

If you have even an ounce of self respect you dont go crying to the jury to take Zakarin out after you've just been beaten in a sprint fair and square. So I really do wonder if Movistar/Quintana went to the jury themselves.

The entire point is that Zakarin did not beat Nairo fair and square.

Yes, but it had no consequences on the outcome, Zakarin was already flying past Quintana. And anybody with a bit of dignity would have acknowledged that and just move past it. So again, im curious if they themselves formed a complaint to the jury.

just because the sprint was already won doesn't mean he has the right to do a dangerous manouver...

Correct. But then maybe a more sensible approach would be to fine him.

Yes, but maybe the rules don't allow that.

This is a bit like the wheel exchange with porte last year. An exagerated punishment for something simple.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

Froome didn't got back to the peloton.

Ok I stand corrected ...I thought he got back..But the point still stands re SKY today
You mut be the best SKY fan ever if you cannot see that

Bloody hell the whole of SKY were beaten today not just Froome ...but Froome had a puncture and got back ot peloton to e dropped ...pretty much slogging it out on the road
Look life is too short for your sensitive position on this ...SKY were crab today end of

 

[cineteq]

Re:

If you have even an ounce of self respect you dont go crying to the jury to take Zakarin out after you've just been beaten in a sprint fair and square. So I really do wonder if Movistar/Quintana went to the jury themselves.

Zakarin broke the rules, how's that fair? Try again.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Dumoulin: Quite good legs but had some gastric problems which was, well... ***. Tomorrow TT, hopefully better then!

 

[classicomano]

Re: Re:

If you have even an ounce of self respect you dont go crying to the jury to take Zakarin out after you've just been beaten in a sprint fair and square. So I really do wonder if Movistar/Quintana went to the jury themselves.

Zakarin broke the rules, how's that fair? Try again.

Its fair in the sense that the maneuver had no influence on the actual result. Zakarin was gonna win no matter what. He just had to be a dumbass and make that weird swerve on the line.

 

[Tonton]

Great point BigMac. Now the question is: what are the rules? Can there be a fine only?

Other questions: is raising the arm, a gesture universally recognized as a sign of protest enough to trigger an investigation? Does a protest have to take place for an investigation to occur? If the answers are "no" and "yes", then it must be Movistar who initiated the protest.

I don't know the rules, so just asking.

Then what do the officials need to determine? If the foul was intentional? If it affected the result? Or is dangerous riding enough to warrant relegation? My guess is #3 is enough to make the case.

Every time such an instance happens, we end-up in a 50-50 situation, and there's controversy. Some were in favor of Nacer being relegated in PN, and side with Zaka today. It goes to show that there's no clear line, and as I wrote earlier, closing the door is as old as sprinting. We may disagree with the verdict today, but also recognize that there can't be a universal, fool-proof rule.

At the end of the day, I still believe it was a bit harsh for Zaka, but also wonder why he closed the door if he had the stage won. And as Angliru stated: did he really have the stage won? I'd like to see aerial video to judge comparative speed and understand if Zaka felt threatenend (which doesn't appear to be the case), or if he didn't need to close the door, in which case it's a big lapse of judgement for him.

My $0.02

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Come on, Im not particularly fan of Zakarin but you can't ask for relegation here. He obviously tries to close his angle a bit but :
-Quintana had enough space left
-He had already outsprinted the Colombian

But such a terrible style on a bike haha

If these were two sprinters instead of two GC riders, everyone would be rightly calling for Zaka's relegation. No reason why we should have a different standard for GC riders.

I agree. He clearly deviated from his line with the intent to close the door on Quintana. If he, Zakarin, was confident that he had Quintana beat, he wouldn't have felt the need to swerve to his right as he did.

Totally agree. Zaka allready pretty much won, but Quintana was still sprinting and then he felt the need to make a dumb move because of dumbness or his inabilitybto ride a bike. That's his own fault. Good decision.

 

[Hakkapelit]

Re: Re:

If you have even an ounce of self respect you dont go crying to the jury to take Zakarin out after you've just been beaten in a sprint fair and square. So I really do wonder if Movistar/Quintana went to the jury themselves.

Zakarin broke the rules, how's that fair? Try again.

What is the exact ruling beeing applied here?

 

[May0maniac]

Dumoulin: Quite good legs but had some gastric problems which was, well... ****. Tomorrow TT, hopefully better then!

Ok, that's good news.
Kudus finished 21st, 1:34 down, that's not too bad (has Kudus ever performed well in the cold?), he could do well at the Giro.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

If you have even an ounce of self respect you dont go crying to the jury to take Zakarin out after you've just been beaten in a sprint fair and square. So I really do wonder if Movistar/Quintana went to the jury themselves.

The entire point is that Zakarin did not beat Nairo fair and square.

Yes, but it had no consequences on the outcome, Zakarin was already flying past Quintana. And anybody with a bit of dignity would have acknowledged that and just move past it. So again, im curious if they themselves formed a complaint to the jury.

Well maybe he shouldn't make such a dumb move if it was so sure he wouldve won. He didnt seem very sure about it when he made that move.
Sure looked like a won race and then he did something that's not allowed. His own fault. Doesn't matter if he would've won anyways, it's not allowed.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

Froome didn't got back to the peloton.

Ok I stand corrected ...I thought he got back..But the point still stands re SKY today
You mut be the best SKY fan ever if you cannot see that

Not fan of Sky at all. Also not so big keyboard hero as bloody you

 

[AlexNYC]

Quintana after the stage:

I think he did a movement that as far as the judges are concerned was illegal and I think that movement caused him to be disqualified.

Pretty clear-cut.

 

[laurensde+]

Re:

Quintana after the stage:

I think he did a movement that as far as the judges are concerned was illegal and I think that movement caused him to be disqualified.

Pretty clear-cut.

Quintana also said Zaka had already won before he moved across, and didn't want to comment on the judges' decision.

Konyshev saying the judges thought Nairo could 'maybe' have won: http://www.teamkatusha.com/news/tour-de-romandie-us-ilnur-winner-says-konyshev

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

Froome didn't got back to the peloton.

Ok I stand corrected ...I thought he got back..But the point still stands re SKY today
You mut be the best SKY fan ever if you cannot see that

Not fan of Sky at all. Also not so big keyboard hero as bloody you

How am I a key board hero ?? What exactly does that mean...."'as bloody you" ? ' very rude and uncalled for ...I stated a point and you challenged so I challenged back

 

[TMP402]

Dumoulin: Quite good legs but had some gastric problems which was, well... ****. Tomorrow TT, hopefully better then!

Tom D curses up a storm again.

 

[Fernandez]

Hahahaha, I though people in these forums knew about the sport. Maybe too much anger against a rider. Quintana complained because he was at 180 ppm and got cut by Zakarin; and Zakarin was relegated because he cut Quintana clearly from the left to the right against the barriers preventing him to continue his sprint. And thats it. There is no more Zakarin would have won anyway, Quintanas bitching or Movistar working in the shade, etc, etc...

 

[ILovecycling]

Re: Re:

If you have even an ounce of self respect you dont go crying to the jury to take Zakarin out after you've just been beaten in a sprint fair and square. So I really do wonder if Movistar/Quintana went to the jury themselves.

The entire point is that Zakarin did not beat Nairo fair and square.

Unless he had some kind of panic rocket boost, Nairo was already beaten before Zakarin boxed him. Should that matter, I don't know.

That is true,but I dont think it matters.

 

[Kwibus]

Great point BigMac. Now the question is: what are the rules? Can there be a fine only?

Other questions: is raising the arm, a gesture universally recognized as a sign of protest enough to trigger an investigation? Does a protest have to take place for an investigation to occur? If the answers are "no" and "yes", then it must be Movistar who initiated the protest.

I don't know the rules, so just asking.

Then what do the officials need to determine? If the foul was intentional? If it affected the result? Or is dangerous riding enough to warrant relegation? My guess is #3 is enough to make the case.

Every time such an instance happens, we end-up in a 50-50 situation, and there's controversy. Some were in favor of Nacer being relegated in PN, and side with Zaka today. It goes to show that there's no clear line, and as I wrote earlier, closing the door is as old as sprinting. We may disagree with the verdict today, but also recognize that there can't be a universal, fool-proof rule.

At the end of the day, I still believe it was a bit harsh for Zaka, but also wonder why he closed the door if he had the stage won. And as Angliru stated: did he really have the stage won? I'd like to see aerial video to judge comparative speed and understand if Zaka felt threatenend (which doesn't appear to be the case), or if he didn't need to close the door, in which case it's a big lapse of judgement for him.

My $0.02

To avoid discussion you have to stick to the rules. Allthough sometimes it feels wrong, but if you are going to decide on wether it feel good or wrong you will get endless discussions.

 

[Kwibus]

Tt is just 15km

 

[Põhja Konn]

Re:

Hahahaha, I though people in these forums knew about the sport. Maybe too much anger against a rider. Quintana complained because he was at 180 ppm and got cut by Zakarin; and Zakarin was relegated because he cut Quintana clearly from the left to the right against the barriers preventing him to continue his sprint. And thats it. There is no more Zakarin would have won anyway, Quintanas bitching or Movistar working in the shade, etc, etc...

100% agreed. Very well said.

Purely Zakarin's own fault. He had absolutely no need to swerve that way.

 

[Tonton]

Great point BigMac. Now the question is: what are the rules? Can there be a fine only?

Other questions: is raising the arm, a gesture universally recognized as a sign of protest enough to trigger an investigation? Does a protest have to take place for an investigation to occur? If the answers are "no" and "yes", then it must be Movistar who initiated the protest.

I don't know the rules, so just asking.

Then what do the officials need to determine? If the foul was intentional? If it affected the result? Or is dangerous riding enough to warrant relegation? My guess is #3 is enough to make the case.

Every time such an instance happens, we end-up in a 50-50 situation, and there's controversy. Some were in favor of Nacer being relegated in PN, and side with Zaka today. It goes to show that there's no clear line, and as I wrote earlier, closing the door is as old as sprinting. We may disagree with the verdict today, but also recognize that there can't be a universal, fool-proof rule.

At the end of the day, I still believe it was a bit harsh for Zaka, but also wonder why he closed the door if he had the stage won. And as Angliru stated: did he really have the stage won? I'd like to see aerial video to judge comparative speed and understand if Zaka felt threatenend (which doesn't appear to be the case), or if he didn't need to close the door, in which case it's a big lapse of judgement for him.

My $0.02

To avoid discussion you have to stick to the rules. Allthough sometimes it feels wrong, but if you are going to decide on wether it feel good or wrong you will get endless discussions.

We agree then. As you can see, I wanted to make that very point and calm things down a bit. The thread was becoming a "I'm right", "no I'm right" contest.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re:

Tt is just 15km

Yeah this years Romandie is more climber orientated. 2 mountain stages and a very short prologue and a short ITT.

But that's ok, it used to be a TT heavy course with only 1 real mt stage and a (too) long ITT

 

[Brullnux]

Just to show just how good Gasparotto is at the moment, he finished less than 2 minutes down in a group with LLS, just 15" down on Kudus and Taaramae. Awesome form.

 

[postmanhat]

Re:

I think Reichenbach's wotk today deserves appreciation. That was real superdomestique work.

Reichenbach is having a superb season considering he's been domming for Pinot. Not a great reflection on IAM perhaps

 

[Carstenbf]

Re:

Hahahaha, I though people in these forums knew about the sport. Maybe too much anger against a rider. Quintana complained because he was at 180 ppm and got cut by Zakarin; and Zakarin was relegated because he cut Quintana clearly from the left to the right against the barriers preventing him to continue his sprint. And thats it. There is no more Zakarin would have won anyway, Quintanas bitching or Movistar working in the shade, etc, etc...

+1

I imagine Nairo was allready slightly annoyed with having to drag them home from 1k out, since Zaka stopped taking turns then. While there's bonus seconds to fight for, you'd think winning the race would be more important than who takes the stage.