2016 TdF, Stage 2: Saint-Lô → Cherbourg-en-Cotentin (183km)

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Re: Re:

Cance > TheRest said:
DFA123 said:
MacBAir said:
So, this was the best possible stage for Roman and Peter. Peter wins the stage (bosses it), shows everybody that not even the Ardennes are safe. The other Bosses the hill, does a terrific job and sees the leader falter due to injury.

Peter should now be the undisputed leader, and Roman should be their GC guy/Workhorse for finishes like these/breaks.
Dude, it was nothing like the Ardennes. It came after a flat stage not 4000m or so of tough climbing. A flat stage with a fairly challenging uphill sprint was tailor-made for Sagan and he duly delivered. Fair play to him, but he's got a lot of weight to lose before he can challenge for LBL or FW.
Sagan can win on almost any terrain nowadays. It didn't matter today, if it had been a flat stage or a hilly ardennes-like profile. The guy has won mountain stages in Tour de Suisse and he's won the Tour of California by finishing 6th on Mt. Baldy . .
Tbf, the Tour de France is a slightly higher level, with quite a bit more competition, than Suisse or California. He's clearly not going to be challenging in any mountain stages at the Tour unless he gets lucky in a break.
 

Irondan

Administrator
Moderator
Re:

SeriousSam said:
Contador could still recover and be in a good condition to fight for third. That was probably the most likely place he'd up with in peak condition too.
There's a lot of good competition for the third spot, he might have already lost too much time for that. Maybe top 5. It's crazy that we're even having this conversation after 2 stages... :eek:
 
Aug 16, 2013
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Squirbos_19 said:
Damn, if Purito was placed at the front he could have had a decent result today. He looks in decent form.

Always good to see the World champion winning, but disappointing to see Contador and Porte lose time.
He does. Remember this finish does not suit him that much. I hope he can improve during this Tour.
 
Re: Re:

MacBAir said:
Did you miss the part where he podiumed Amstell and where 70 riders or more reach the last climb of LBL, a cobbled climb? Answer this, please.

Also, not sprinting at the end of Strade had something to do with other factors (shape, mind, pressure). He also showed more consistency on those races than any other rider.
Whatever; I can see you're a Sagan fanboy. I'm not criticizing him; he's obviously a great rider - the most talented in the world imo - but he can't win Liege or FW in his current shape. Amstel he'd have an outside chance. I'll leave it at that.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Good call, Kreuziger or Majka should become leader ASAP. Even if Contador soldiers on, he's not going to be as motivated as those two would be to battle for third place - and he can still try to grab a stage win somewhere.
Majka already (somehow) dropped 3 minutes yesterday, and apparently another 6 minutes today.
 
Re: Re:

spalco said:
DFA123 said:
Good call, Kreuziger or Majka should become leader ASAP. Even if Contador soldiers on, he's not going to be as motivated as those two would be to battle for third place - and he can still try to grab a stage win somewhere.
Majka already (somehow) dropped 3 minutes yesterday, and apparently another 6 minutes today.
Oh right, didn't see that. :confused: I guess that must have been done on purpose for later in the race, but looks a little foolish right now. Could go stage hunting or chase the KOM I guess now though.
 
Sagan is of course supremely gifted and extremely versatile. But seriously, if that's the Muur he isn't finishing ahead of the guys 2nd to 4th today. The Muur is much harder and every fraction of a percent of gradient the climb is steeper and every centimeter the climb is longer is an added advantage for the Ardennes specialists.

Could Sagan train for Ardennes type races and be competitive? Yes, probably. He is able to do a lot of things that it looks like he shouldn't be able to do. But would he be be a serious contender in today's shape and form? Not for Fleche or LBL certainly.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
MacBAir said:
Did you miss the part where he podiumed Amstell and where 70 riders or more reach the last climb of LBL, a cobbled climb? Answer this, please.

Also, not sprinting at the end of Strade had something to do with other factors (shape, mind, pressure). He also showed more consistency on those races than any other rider.
Whatever; I can see you're a Sagan fanboy. I'm not criticizing him; he's obviously a great rider - the most talented in the world imo - but he can't win Liege or FW in his current shape. Amstel he'd have an outside chance. I'll leave it at that.
What about TdF 2016, Stage 5. Where do you think Sagan will finish?

 
Oct 6, 2009
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Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
HelloDolly said:
Asero831 said:
Wow Valverde can top 5 and Dan Martin can Top 10 here

Porte and Thomas losing huge time

Dan Martin will be in yellow before the week is out
Plus Tinkoff need to get behind Kreuziger now for GC ...he is up to 8th and can climb very well and is looking good

Contador wil bleed time as injured
Good call, Kreuziger or Majka should become leader ASAP. Even if Contador soldiers on, he's not going to be as motivated as those two would be to battle for third place - and he can still try to grab a stage win somewhere.
Agree with this. If he does stay in the race, it would be good to see him work for his teammates, give something back.

I doubt Froome would let him get a stage win, but maybe, if he loses enough time. He needs to focus on some sort of recovery now. Either abandon, or change gears completely and work for others to cement his legend.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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Re: Re:

Irondan said:
SeriousSam said:
Contador could still recover and be in a good condition to fight for third. That was probably the most likely place he'd up with in peak condition too.
There's a lot of good competition for the third spot, he might have already lost too much time for that. Maybe top 5. It's crazy that we're even having this conversation after 2 stages... :eek:
If he recovers, you'd think he could put enough time into the likes of Aru, Pinot, Bardet, TJ etc

Porte lost a minute more today and I wouldn't count him out for 3rd either, provided he doesn't give up mentally (not a given) or is made TJ's domestique (which, sadly, might happen).
 
Jun 13, 2016
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Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
MacBAir said:
Did you miss the part where he podiumed Amstell and where 70 riders or more reach the last climb of LBL, a cobbled climb? Answer this, please.

Also, not sprinting at the end of Strade had something to do with other factors (shape, mind, pressure). He also showed more consistency on those races than any other rider.
Whatever; I can see you're a Sagan fanboy. I'm not criticizing him; he's obviously a great rider - the most talented in the world imo - but he can't win Liege or FW in his current shape. Amstel he'd have an outside chance. I'll leave it at that.
For starters, Amstell is also an ardenne classic. He podiumed there when he was weaker. So everybody knows that he could win that race.

FW is a Muur sprint and nothing more. I believe that indeed he is too heavy for that one.

LBL... When it doesn't end on a bunch sprint, 70 riders reach the last hill, and if the best puncheur on the planet is there (Peter), and he is also the best guy on cobbled climbs, the best guy on tricky descents, much stronger than other candidates for LBL on the flat, and has the stamina and consistency to do monster performances and win Road Championships and monuments based on explosive cobbled climbs. He can win LBL. Alone.

It's like you havent been watching LBL at all and have no idea of how the race is ridden, at least in the last few years.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
spalco said:
DFA123 said:
Good call, Kreuziger or Majka should become leader ASAP. Even if Contador soldiers on, he's not going to be as motivated as those two would be to battle for third place - and he can still try to grab a stage win somewhere.
Majka already (somehow) dropped 3 minutes yesterday, and apparently another 6 minutes today.
Oh right, didn't see that. :confused: I guess that must have been done on purpose for later in the race, but looks a little foolish right now. Could go stage hunting or chase the KOM I guess now though.
From the way he was riding on the front of the Tinkoff line on occasion yesterday it seems likely that he and his team know that he doesn't have the form to ride for GC
 
Apr 17, 2015
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Re: Re:

Arredondo said:
Squirbos_19 said:
Damn, if Purito was placed at the front he could have had a decent result today. He looks in decent form.

Always good to see the World champion winning, but disappointing to see Contador and Porte lose time.
He does. Remember this finish does not suit him that much. I hope he can improve during this Tour.
Exactly, hopwfully he can get a few good results as the tour progresses. He'll surely light up the race later on with some attacks.
 
Re: Re:

roundabout said:
DFA123 said:
spalco said:
DFA123 said:
Good call, Kreuziger or Majka should become leader ASAP. Even if Contador soldiers on, he's not going to be as motivated as those two would be to battle for third place - and he can still try to grab a stage win somewhere.
Majka already (somehow) dropped 3 minutes yesterday, and apparently another 6 minutes today.
Oh right, didn't see that. :confused: I guess that must have been done on purpose for later in the race, but looks a little foolish right now. Could go stage hunting or chase the KOM I guess now though.
From the way he was riding on the front of the Tinkoff line on occasion yesterday it seems likely that he and his team know that he doesn't have the form to ride for GC
It is just a repeat from 2014, drop hours in first week to have full freedom later on.
 
Jul 19, 2010
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OMG.. what's up with Porte? the guy never has anything goes right for him. Is this the way mother luck saying to him that he is better as a domestique than a leader??? What a bad luck.. AGAIN!.. if it's not taking someone else's wheel, got sick .. now another puncher just on the wrong time. I don't know what you can that .. he is totally cursed when he is the leader in any Grand Tour... Poor Richie.
 
Re: Re:

Lance Armstrong said:
DFA123 said:
MacBAir said:
Did you miss the part where he podiumed Amstell and where 70 riders or more reach the last climb of LBL, a cobbled climb? Answer this, please.

Also, not sprinting at the end of Strade had something to do with other factors (shape, mind, pressure). He also showed more consistency on those races than any other rider.
Whatever; I can see you're a Sagan fanboy. I'm not criticizing him; he's obviously a great rider - the most talented in the world imo - but he can't win Liege or FW in his current shape. Amstel he'd have an outside chance. I'll leave it at that.
What about TdF 2016, Stage 5. Where do you think Sagan will finish?

I think it depends how it's ridden. If the GC riders stretch their legs on those first two climbs he's got no chance of winning the stage. There's a very slim chance he could get back on during the descents to keep hold of yellow, but he won't have anything left to challenge Bala and Alaphilippe/Martin at the end.

If they are soft pedalled then he's got a chance. But those two climbs have about 6km at 11% - if Sky or Movistar really put the hammer down then he's gone.
 
Oct 6, 2009
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Re:

Moose McKnuckles said:
Sagan was in Utah before the Tour.

Absolutely crushing 10 foot drops on the mountain bike. Dude is a straight up beast on the bike. He's exactly what cycling needs.
co-sign this.
 
Re: Re:

roundabout said:
DFA123 said:
spalco said:
DFA123 said:
Good call, Kreuziger or Majka should become leader ASAP. Even if Contador soldiers on, he's not going to be as motivated as those two would be to battle for third place - and he can still try to grab a stage win somewhere.
Majka already (somehow) dropped 3 minutes yesterday, and apparently another 6 minutes today.
Oh right, didn't see that. :confused: I guess that must have been done on purpose for later in the race, but looks a little foolish right now. Could go stage hunting or chase the KOM I guess now though.
From the way he was riding on the front of the Tinkoff line on occasion yesterday it seems likely that he and his team know that he doesn't have the form to ride for GC
Yeah, fair point, could well be the case. So, all in for Kreuziger I guess, at least until Contador shows something to suggest that he might still be able to do something.
 
Jul 6, 2015
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Re: Re:

HelloDolly said:
Asero831 said:
Wow Valverde can top 5 and Dan Martin can Top 10 here

Porte and Thomas losing huge time

Dan Martin will be in yellow before the week is out
Plus Tinkoff need to get behind Kreuziger now for GC ...he is up to 8th and can climb very well and is looking good

Contador wil bleed time as injured
Agree that it's not looking good for AC, but if he can just hang on, heal up and not loose much more time, he might be able to contend. That's if. More likely I see him continuing to loses time and abandon, which would be a shame but it's a brutal sport.
 
Re: Re:

MacBAir said:
It's like you havent been watching LBL at all and have no idea of how the race is ridden, at least in the last few years.
It's like you haven't looked at the list of LBL winners at all and have no idea about who actually wins the race or even podiums it, at least in the last few years. The heaviest guy to be a serious contender in a long time was Philippe Gilbert and he was very considerably lighter than Sagan is now.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Cance > TheRest said:
DFA123 said:
MacBAir said:
So, this was the best possible stage for Roman and Peter. Peter wins the stage (bosses it), shows everybody that not even the Ardennes are safe. The other Bosses the hill, does a terrific job and sees the leader falter due to injury.

Peter should now be the undisputed leader, and Roman should be their GC guy/Workhorse for finishes like these/breaks.
Dude, it was nothing like the Ardennes. It came after a flat stage not 4000m or so of tough climbing. A flat stage with a fairly challenging uphill sprint was tailor-made for Sagan and he duly delivered. Fair play to him, but he's got a lot of weight to lose before he can challenge for LBL or FW.
Sagan can win on almost any terrain nowadays. It didn't matter today, if it had been a flat stage or a hilly ardennes-like profile. The guy has won mountain stages in Tour de Suisse and he's won the Tour of California by finishing 6th on Mt. Baldy . .
Tbf, the Tour de France is a slightly higher level, with quite a bit more competition, than Suisse or California. He's clearly not going to be challenging in any mountain stages at the Tour unless he gets lucky in a break.
That was not what I was suggesting. The point that you are missing is merely that Sagan would have been there in the finale again today, even if the profile had been hillier. The reason he beat Alaphilippe (which I assume is the rider you are trying to defend here) was not that it had been a flat stage, but that he's simply better on these types of finishes, got better endurance and obviously is a smarter rider.
It should also be noted that Valverde wasn't far off Alaphilippe in the end - different story ofcourse.
 
Aug 16, 2013
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Re: Re:

Squirbos_19 said:
Arredondo said:
Squirbos_19 said:
Damn, if Purito was placed at the front he could have had a decent result today. He looks in decent form.

Always good to see the World champion winning, but disappointing to see Contador and Porte lose time.
He does. Remember this finish does not suit him that much. I hope he can improve during this Tour.
Exactly, hopwfully he can get a few good results as the tour progresses. He'll surely light up the race later on with some attacks.
Actually i hope he realizes he can't do better then 9th-10th-11th place in GC.

And loses some time in stage 5 to chase stage wins later on. Winning in Andorra would be beautiful.
 

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