2016 Tour de Pologne, 2.UWT, July 12-18

[gospina]

Re:

I lolled when I saw the results. What's with Gaviria gifting stages left and right while he's a neopro?

Okay, apparently he didn't gift it, but it's still funny.

I felt like he gifted it, just sat back waiting for Caleb. They were like 8-9 in final 100 meters. He sat up at the end and Caleb almost nabbed 2nd. That being said, it's a bit unusual. Good discussion points.
If he continues to do this, looks like he doesn't have the killer instinct we expect in a sprinter.
If he is prepping for the olympics, he should have attacked. Viviani has been working on wins lately, even if its national events. Fernando should do the same.

The flip side is this is a team sport and Gaviria is totally showing how much he honors his leadouts. He is building one hell of a trust group around him. Some of these riders are getting their first or second WT wins.
I think Martinelli is 22 or 23, also a new kid, stagiaire a few times with Sky. TBH I din't even know he was with EQS.

If you watch the replay, you can clearly see Martinelli pick up his radio and say something to the effect of "can I attack?". EQS had 4 riders in the mix, so Gaviria did have others to lead him out if he needed it. He was very relaxed and decided to just follow Caleb Ewan in case they caught Martinelli. Martinelli's attack was meant to soften the sprint I think. The other teams didn't get organized and allowed Martinelli to give it a 2nd kick for the win.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

I lolled when I saw the results. What's with Gaviria gifting stages left and right while he's a neopro?

Okay, apparently he didn't gift it, but it's still funny.

I felt like he gifted it, just sat back waiting for Caleb. They were like 8-9 in final 100 meters. He sat up at the end and Caleb almost nabbed 2nd. That being said, it's a bit unusual. Good discussion points.
If he continues to do this, looks like he doesn't have the killer instinct we expect in a sprinter.
If he is prepping for the olympics, he should have attacked. Viviani has been working on wins lately, even if its national events. Fernando should do the same.

The flip side is this is a team sport and Gaviria is totally showing how much he honors his leadouts. He is building one hell of a trust group around him. Some of these riders are getting their first or second WT wins.
I think Martinelli is 22 or 23, also a new kid, stagiaire a few times with Sky. TBH I din't even know he was with EQS.

If you watch the replay, you can clearly see Martinelli pick up his radio and say something to the effect of "can I attack?". EQS had 4 riders in the mix, so Gaviria did have others to lead him out if he needed it. He was very relaxed and decided to just follow Caleb Ewan in case they caught Martinelli. Martinelli's attack was meant to soften the sprint I think. The other teams didn't get organized and allowed Martinelli to give it a 2nd kick for the win.

You got it wrong - Once Ewan had no support in the last 2kms it allowed Martinelli to steal a break. This made Ewan chase with Gaviria on his wheel - Even if Ewan got to Martinelli then Gaviri would have come over the top - Smart team tactics by Etixx.

 

[gospina]

Re: Re:

I lolled when I saw the results. What's with Gaviria gifting stages left and right while he's a neopro?

Okay, apparently he didn't gift it, but it's still funny.

I felt like he gifted it, just sat back waiting for Caleb. They were like 8-9 in final 100 meters. He sat up at the end and Caleb almost nabbed 2nd. That being said, it's a bit unusual. Good discussion points.
If he continues to do this, looks like he doesn't have the killer instinct we expect in a sprinter.
If he is prepping for the olympics, he should have attacked. Viviani has been working on wins lately, even if its national events. Fernando should do the same.

The flip side is this is a team sport and Gaviria is totally showing how much he honors his leadouts. He is building one hell of a trust group around him. Some of these riders are getting their first or second WT wins.
I think Martinelli is 22 or 23, also a new kid, stagiaire a few times with Sky. TBH I din't even know he was with EQS.

If you watch the replay, you can clearly see Martinelli pick up his radio and say something to the effect of "can I attack?". EQS had 4 riders in the mix, so Gaviria did have others to lead him out if he needed it. He was very relaxed and decided to just follow Caleb Ewan in case they caught Martinelli. Martinelli's attack was meant to soften the sprint I think. The other teams didn't get organized and allowed Martinelli to give it a 2nd kick for the win.

You got it wrong - Once Ewan had no support in the last 2kms it allowed Martinelli to steal a break. This made Ewan chase with Gaviria on his wheel - Even if Ewan got to Martinelli then Gaviria would have come over the top - Smart team tactics by Etixx.

That's what I meant that he just sat back and waiting for Caleb. Martinelli went for it once the sky boys were caught AND he asked on the mic for permission. He was 2nd in that EQS group. Gaviria was 3rd from EQS. Ewan didn't chase, he also waited for the finish sprint

 

[Praying Mantis]

Has to be kind of bittersweet for Martinelli, winning in the shadow of Gaviria once again.

 

[gospina]

Here is the video of the race finish. Look around 6:10 to see him talking on the mic for permission to attack.
https://youtu.be/vPCm_1aNc78

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Has to be kind of bittersweet for Martinelli, winning in the shadow of Gaviria once again.

I would be more annoyed if I was Gaviria, it must suck that Etixx are so strong sometimes.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

That's what I meant that he just sat back and waiting for Caleb.

Yes, but that's not gifting anything. That's the most rudimentary of cycling team tactics - you don't chase your own teammate down when he's ahead solo.

 

[huangho]

It was a gift, the video says it all. After Martinelli asked for permission (6:15) Stybar asked what to do (6:30), and later when he launched Gaviria he just did it in order to secure the win for the team, a bit of a slap in the face from EQS to other teams...

BTW, fantastic attack from Martinelli, no many people can hold that attack from a fierce group of sprinters from 500m, nicely done!!

Gaviria doesn't need to win it all to show he is the boss...

 

[gospina]

Re: Re:

That's what I meant that he just sat back and waiting for Caleb.

Yes, but that's not gifting anything. That's the most rudimentary of cycling team tactics - you don't chase your own teammate down when he's ahead solo.

I see what you are getting at..from the team's perspective, he wouldn't chase his teammate.
It wasn't a gift like he has done before in other races, Martinelli earned that win.
In reality, doesn't matter how strong Gaviria is at the time, it would have been really bad for him and his team if he chased him down and won. His presence in the group was enough to cause other sprinters to hesitate which is the point of Martinelli's attack, to take advantage of the superior numbers OQS had.

Kind of related, does anyone remember that GT a few years ago where three teammates were alone at the finish and they ended up racing each other having their GC guy miss out in bonus seconds? I believe it was an Italian team (Liquigas or Lampre?)

 

[Tank Engine]

Re: Re:

That's what I meant that he just sat back and waiting for Caleb.

Yes, but that's not gifting anything. That's the most rudimentary of cycling team tactics - you don't chase your own teammate down when he's ahead solo.

I see what you are getting at..from the team's perspective, he wouldn't chase his teammate.
It wasn't a gift like he has done before in other races, Martinelli earned that win.
In reality, doesn't matter how strong Gaviria is at the time, it would have been really bad for him and his team if he chased him down and won. His presence in the group was enough to cause other sprinters to hesitate which is the point of Martinelli's attack, to take advantage of the superior numbers OQS had.

Kind of related, does anyone remember that GT a few years ago where three teammates were alone at the finish and they ended up racing each other having their GC guy miss out in bonus seconds? I believe it was an Italian team (Liquigas or Lampre?)

Sounds like the Liquigas stage in the 2011 Vuelta. They attacked on a descent several kilometers from the finish. They had 4 guys in a break of 5, including Sagan and Nibali, with Lastras from Movistar. The obvious plan was to set up Nibali for the win and subsequent time bonus, with Sagan sitting on Lastras' wheel ready to accelerate if Lastras looked like he was going to outsprint Nibali. Lastras was outsprinting Nibali, so Sagan came round him to save the embarassment of losing the stage in such a situation. However, one of the Liquigas domestiques responded to Lastras coming past him and outsprinted Nibali, thus depriving him of a time bonus for no reason at all.

Edit: not that it mattered, since Nibali eventually finished 7th on GC.

 

[El Pistolero]

I hope Gilbert wins the overall here or that idiot Kevin de Weerdt might not take him to Rio.

 

[Popchu]

Re:

I hope Gilbert wins the overall here or that idiot Kevin de Weerdt might not take him to Rio.

Both Gilbert and Van Avermaet will go to the Olympics.

 

[gospina]

Re: Re:

That's what I meant that he just sat back and waiting for Caleb.

Yes, but that's not gifting anything. That's the most rudimentary of cycling team tactics - you don't chase your own teammate down when he's ahead solo.

I see what you are getting at..from the team's perspective, he wouldn't chase his teammate.
It wasn't a gift like he has done before in other races, Martinelli earned that win.
In reality, doesn't matter how strong Gaviria is at the time, it would have been really bad for him and his team if he chased him down and won. His presence in the group was enough to cause other sprinters to hesitate which is the point of Martinelli's attack, to take advantage of the superior numbers OQS had.

Kind of related, does anyone remember that GT a few years ago where three teammates were alone at the finish and they ended up racing each other having their GC guy miss out in bonus seconds? I believe it was an Italian team (Liquigas or Lampre?)

Sounds like the Liquigas stage in the 2011 Vuelta. They attacked on a descent several kilometers from the finish. They had 4 guys in a break of 5, including Sagan and Nibali, with Lastras from Movistar. The obvious plan was to set up Nibali for the win and subsequent time bonus, with Sagan sitting on Lastras' wheel ready to accelerate if Lastras looked like he was going to outsprint Nibali. Lastras was outsprinting Nibali, so Sagan came round him to save the embarassment of losing the stage in such a situation. However, one of the Liquigas domestiques responded to Lastras coming past him and outsprinted Nibali, thus depriving him of a time bonus for no reason at all.

Edit: not that it mattered, since Nibali eventually finished 7th on GC.

That was it! thank you. I remember it was Sagan early in his career, but wasn't sure

 

[dick the quick]

Gaviria takes the second stage.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Martinelli, Gaviria... Obvious that the top sprinters are all racing the Tour.

 

[gospina]

Re:

Gaviria takes the second stage.

Once again, starting the sprint from really far out. This time, Caleb on his wheel again. Nice to see Viviani in the mix there. Very close for all three, but Gaviria takes it. I think he takes the yellow now?

 

[Vroome.exe]

Gaviria had like 5 teammates in the last km and still they were gone by 400m to go... Idk how Gaviria held that one.

 

[gospina]

Re:

Gaviria had like 5 teammates in the last km and still they were gone by 400m to go... Idk how Gaviria held that one.

I agree. He went from WAY OUT. It shows that he is ready for the Olympics and so is Viviani. I love Gaviria, but wow, watching all his sprints, his bike is all over the place. Even when he is in the hoods.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Gaviria won't do much at the Olympics. The course is too tough.

 

[gospina]

Re:

Gaviria won't do much at the Olympics. The course is too tough.

There is some confusion, so let me clarify. Gaviria, Viviani and Cavendish are all racing for the Olympic cycling track teams, not road or TT (or MTB like Sagan). Speficially, they are racing the Omnium. Gaviria and Viviani are by far the favorites, with Gaviria being the current 2016 (and former 2015) world champ being the favorite and Viviani being the biggest challenge.
Cav just barely qualified but should also be in contention.

For road, I think Uran and Henao are the best challengers from Colombia (Lopez, Quintana and Chavez being the rest of the team). Uran is also in Poland, so we shall see how good he is.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[gospina]

Re: Re:

Gaviria won't do much at the Olympics. The course is too tough.

There is some confusion, so let me clarify. Gaviria, Viviani and Cavendish are all racing for the Olympic cycling track teams, not road or TT (or MTB like Sagan). Speficially, they are racing the Omnium. Gaviria and Viviani are by far the favorites, with Gaviria being the current 2016 (and former 2015) world champ being the favorite and Viviani being the biggest challenge.
Cav just barely qualified but should also be in contention.

For road, I think Uran and Henao are the best challengers from Colombia (Lopez, Quintana and Chavez being the rest of the team). Uran is also in Poland, so we shall see how good he is.

The Omnium track event is actually 6 different classic track events combined.
Scratch race
Individual 4,000 meter pursuit
elimination race
Time Trail (1,000 meter)
Flying Lap
Points Race.

The current colombian ROAD national champion, Edwin Avila, has been the UCI world champ twice for the points race, however, AFAIK, it is no longer an olympic event, which is a shame. Same goes with the individual pursuit, which American Taylor Phinney was probably one of the best ever at.

The current cycling track events are:
Keirin (sprint with a motorcycle pacing)
Omnium
Indiviual Sprint
Team Pursuit
Team Sprint

Edit: Just checked, I was right, points no longer an event: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_at_the_Summer_Olympics#Track_cycling.2C_men
I think points race, Indiviual pursuit, Madison and, of course, Tandem should all come back as olympic sports.

Madison is really cool, team sport where one team member hands off the other most of the time via a slingshot hand exchange. Imagine Wiggins doing this with Cavendish over and over again


Sidenote: New sport that will be exciting to watch this olympics? Rubgy sevens for both men and women. Instead of 15 people a side, it is 7 a side (hence the name). Translates into very fast scoring game.

 

[Samamba]

EQS gonna win a 3rd stage in a row.

 

[dick the quick]

Third stage won by Nicollo Bonifazio (TFS).

 

[Samamba]

Wtf weird sprint.
Ewan leading out Gaviria, who leads out Bonifazio.