2016 Vuelta a España, stage 11: Colunga > Peña Cabarga

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Re: Re:

BigMac said:
MacBAir said:
It is so great so see an attacking, positive champion like Froome absolutely destroying a negative rider like Quintana race after race.
We need more Froomes, less Quintanas in the peloton.

What a champion.
Quintana hasn't been negative this Vuelta by current standards.
I think he was watching a replay of the Tour. Or maybe it was one of the "Save Draft" things.
barmaher said:
Funny looking at Froome and Quintana staring at each other on the little flat section. Froome probably thinking he is in the box seat with the ITT ahead. Quintana thinking he has the upper hand as he is in red.
Nah, I think they both know Froome has the upper hand, but Quintana wasn't dropping him on this climb. They also knew the both didn't really care about anyone else.
 
Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
Hugo Koblet said:
That's part of my point. Why work if he doesn't have the legs to attack?
Maybe he felt good. They can't know how his rivals feel, obviously.
I'm sure that at this point of his career he knows when he's good and when he's not. I don't really buy the story that he felt good all stage and as soon as they hit the climb, he felt bad. I don't understand what you mean by your last sentence. Can you explain?
 
Re: Re:

MacBAir said:
SeriousSam said:
Contador is going to have to accept the harsh truth that he is no longer even competitive with the Big 2 and plan the rest of the Vuelta, and next season, accordingly.
He should retire, me thinks. Why keep going? For what? Robbing Mollema of his well deserved leadership position for the tour?

If he doesn't retire, he should focus on ardennes + Vuelta or Giro + Lombardia.
Don't be ridiculous. Mollema has been the leader of teams in GTs for many years now and he never achieved anything of note. Even an old, tired Contador is a better rider than Mollema.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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Contador just doesn't have it anymore. Feeling good is compatible with getting soundly beaten by superior riders

Re Mollema, I think co-leadership like at BMC would be appropriate. Would be foolish to put all your eggs in the Contador basket with how little he's shown this year
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
LaFlorecita said:
HelloDolly said:
Konig (who rode brilliantly) thanking Tinkoff for chasign asotherwise Chris would not hav had the stage win
:rolleyes:
Kreuziger's mate sticking the boot in.
Yep the Czech riders are all having a go at Contador (becasue they cannot be doing anything else :rolleyes: ) I expect Stybar to have a go tomorrow

I think Konig did ride brilliantly ..He chased down Chaves , he tried ot take bonus from Valverde and he beat Contador home. Pretty brillant day on the bike for a man who wasn't picked for the Tour I'd say (he was fit for the Tour btw)
 
Re:

Alexandre B. said:
I hope Peña Cabarga will not be used for many years.

Gap between 1st and 10th in 2011 -> 35s
Gap between 1st and 10th in 2016 -> 30s

Unless you're Horner, it's not really efficient.
That's awful reasoning. It's not a high mountain stage; it's a flattish stage with a nasty kick at the end. It's not supposed to split the GC contenders by minutes; just to provide some entertainment at the end of one of the easier, flatter stages of the race. Which is consistently does.
 
Re: Re:

Hugo Koblet said:
LaFlorecita said:
Hugo Koblet said:
That's part of my point. Why work if he doesn't have the legs to attack?
Maybe he felt good. They can't know how his rivals feel, obviously.
I'm sure that at this point of his career he knows when he's good and when he's not. I don't really buy the story that he felt good all stage and as soon as they hit the climb, he felt bad. I don't understand what you mean by your last sentence. Can you explain?
What?
Again:
Contador feels good,his legs feel strong. He doesn't know how his rivals feel. He will in all likelihood find out on the climb. He has to decide between letting the break take the stage and using his team to bring back the break. He chooses the second option, because in the best case he wins the stage, worst case another rider wins. On the climb it becomes clear his rivals also have strong legs, which means he can't win the stage. Unfortunate, but at least he didn't finish 1st out of the GC riders behind a break.
 
Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
Hugo Koblet said:
LaFlorecita said:
Hugo Koblet said:
That's part of my point. Why work if he doesn't have the legs to attack?
Maybe he felt good. They can't know how his rivals feel, obviously.
I'm sure that at this point of his career he knows when he's good and when he's not. I don't really buy the story that he felt good all stage and as soon as they hit the climb, he felt bad. I don't understand what you mean by your last sentence. Can you explain?
What?
Again:
Contador feels good,his legs feel strong. He doesn't know how his rivals feel. He will in all likelihood find out on the climb. He has to decide between letting the break take the stage and using his team to bring back the break. He chooses the second option, because in the best case he wins the stage, worst case another rider wins. On the climb it becomes clear his rivals also have strong legs, which means he can't win the stage. Unfortunate, but at least he didn't finish 1st out of the GC riders behind a break.
Alright, I thought you meant that he initially felt good, then realised he had bad legs. If I understand you correctly now, then he did feel good all day and this is his best level. Why didn't he attack then? Surely his plan couldn't be that all of Quintana, Valverde, Froome and Chaves just dropped because of bad legs?
 
Re: Re:

Hugo Koblet said:
Alright, I thought you meant that he initially felt good, then realised he had bad legs. If I understand you correctly now, then he did feel good all day and this is his best level. Why didn't he attack then? Surely his plan couldn't be that all of Quintana, Valverde, Froome and Chaves just dropped because of bad legs?
Consider this: he was planning to attack and hopefully take the stage, but the others simply pushed a too high pace which made attacking impossible as he was already close to his limit.
Also, feeling good =/= being at your best
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Alexandre B. said:
I hope Peña Cabarga will not be used for many years.

Gap between 1st and 10th in 2011 -> 35s
Gap between 1st and 10th in 2016 -> 30s

Unless you're Horner, it's not really efficient.
That's awful reasoning. It's not a high mountain stage; it's a flattish stage with a nasty kick at the end. It's not supposed to split the GC contenders by minutes; just to provide some entertainment at the end of one of the easier, flatter stages of the race. Which is consistently does.
There are too many stages like that in this race. And they favor the same type of rider, over and over again : the GC climber. The GC climber has already many stages for him.

Tomorrow is more promising and looks far less boring.
 
Apr 22, 2012
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Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
Kokoso said:
This is getting paranoic :D König is spot on and there is nothing bad on saying that. LaFlo is ridiculous.
Are you the kind of guy who, when playing football/soccer, thanks the defender after he made a mistake which allowed you to score a goal?
Apples and oranges.
 
Apr 22, 2012
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At one moment König looked like he'll go after Chaves, but after while he slowed done and pulled peloton. I wonder whether it was his decision, or team's. And if the first case was right, I wonder how would the outcome look like, he looked really strong today. But I will never know and have to get along with it :)
 
Re: Re:

Alexandre B. said:
DFA123 said:
Alexandre B. said:
I hope Peña Cabarga will not be used for many years.

Gap between 1st and 10th in 2011 -> 35s
Gap between 1st and 10th in 2016 -> 30s

Unless you're Horner, it's not really efficient.
That's awful reasoning. It's not a high mountain stage; it's a flattish stage with a nasty kick at the end. It's not supposed to split the GC contenders by minutes; just to provide some entertainment at the end of one of the easier, flatter stages of the race. Which is consistently does.
There are too many stages like that in this race. And they favor the same type of rider, over and over again : the GC climber. The GC climber has already many stages for him.

Tomorrow is more promising and looks far less boring.
Not sure about this. Since the Vuelta started doing these parcours around five years ago, it is the only GT that a non-climber has even been able to get close to winning. The shorter climbs with small time gaps gives a very strong TTist or rouleur who can climb, a genuine chance at winning a GT by limiting their losses - as they should have.

On the other hand, the Tour de France and Giro are always won by one of the two or three strongest GC climber, with no-one else close to challenging.
 
Re:

Alexandre B. said:
I hope Peña Cabarga will not be used for many years.

Gap between 1st and 10th in 2011 -> 35s
Gap between 1st and 10th in 2016 -> 30s

Unless you're Horner, it's not really efficient.
Nobody wants to go before the last two kilometers because there is a flat section where it's way better to still be in a group. Cumbre del Sol, or la Camperona, are mtf's which are steep but only a few kilometers long, like Peña Cabarga, but imo are the better climbs.
 
Don't know if this has been posted yet:
2016:5,9 km@9,3%---16:58---average speed 20.86 km/h(Froome-Quintana)
2013:5,9 km@9,3%---16:42---average speed 21.20 km/h(Chris Horner)-RECORD
2011:5,9 km@9,3%---17:15---average speed 20.52 km/h(Christopher Froome)
2010:5,9 km@9,3%---17:01---average speed 20.80 km/h(Joaquim Rodriguez)
 
Re:

Cance > TheRest said:
Don't know if this has been posted yet:
2016:5,9 km@9,3%---16:58---average speed 20.86 km/h(Froome-Quintana)
2013:5,9 km@9,3%---16:42---average speed 21.20 km/h(Chris Horner)-RECORD
2011:5,9 km@9,3%---17:15---average speed 20.52 km/h(Christopher Froome)
2010:5,9 km@9,3%---17:01---average speed 20.80 km/h(Joaquim Rodriguez)
Would be interesting how it would have been if either Quintana's or Froome's attack would have worked, since they lost a few seconds looking at each other. Horners time probably would have been impossible tough.
 

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