2016 Vuelta a España, stage 11: Colunga > Peña Cabarga

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Will be interested at what tempo Movistar ride the last climb - My eyes tell me that SO FAR, Movistar has been riding the climbs at a higher tempo, than Sky did in the TDF

One of the (non-clinic) reasons Quintana's time up the Covadonga was so fast, is the tempo that his team set in the hardest middle part.
One of the most efficient ways for pure climbers to beat Froome in a MTF is to attack (or set a harder tempo than Froome's threshold ) at the base of the climb. And that's what Movistar seems to be doing this Vuelta.
It has worked in Hazallanas (Ruta del Sol 2015), it worked (only for Fernandez) on Ezaro and yesterday in Covadonga as well.

These are also my thoughts and also dovetails with how to break the Skytrain at the TDF - Teams need to be more aggressive in mountain stages, particularly riding harder in the valleys and flat sections before the climbs to make Sky weaker before the mountains This is also means instead of picking a 'Sky' team of 7 climbers and 2 flat riders, you need to go for 4 climbers and 5 flat riders - Tire Sky out before the mountains which means they may set a slower tempo up the climb, allowing more rope for attacks.

Anyway will continue to watch at what tempo Sky ride the mountains in the following stages - It's been good tactics by Movistar.

This is very true but the thing is SKY at the tour are infintely stronger than Movistar at the Vuelta ... Of course Fernandez has been setting a blistering pace but can he keep that up and over longer climbs

SKY at the Tour rode at apace that stop attacked...maybe they could have gone faster and better if required...No one challenged them

I'd love to know how long Chris Froome can keep up his Yo yo TT up a mountian and what is his threshold

It would be lovely to know the power and speed at each KM up Covodongo for Froome , Quintana & Contador
I would be great to figure out Froome's threshold

Also agree about putting SKY under pressure before the mountains... Tinkoff would need to do this here as Monvistar can leave it till the mountains...but Tinkoff look like they are not strong enough .... Need some cross winds ??

This is an interesting debate which will continue until Sky's dominance at the TDF is broken - To do what I propose ,would need teams to rethink the selection of riders - I reckon if you have a serious GC contender than 3 or 4 support climbers is all that's needed.

 

[Cookster15]

Re: Re:

Will be interested at what tempo Movistar ride the last climb - My eyes tell me that SO FAR, Movistar has been riding the climbs at a higher tempo, than Sky did in the TDF

One of the (non-clinic) reasons Quintana's time up the Covadonga was so fast, is the tempo that his team set in the hardest middle part.
One of the most efficient ways for pure climbers to beat Froome in a MTF is to attack (or set a harder tempo than Froome's threshold ) at the base of the climb. And that's what Movistar seems to be doing this Vuelta.
It has worked in Hazallanas (Ruta del Sol 2015), it worked (only for Fernandez) on Ezaro and yesterday in Covadonga as well.

I agree. If Sky set a tempo of 420 watts then a surge at 450 watts near base of climbs would certainly weaken them - as long as you don't kill your own team. Movistar seem to have the strength to do that. But I still can't believe how strong Valverde is for a guy with two strong GT's in his legs already this season.

 

[Jungle Cycle]

Maybe one more reason they got Benatti...

 

[Anderis]

Clarke out with fractured scapula.

 

[sir fly]

Looking forward to the stage.
The rest day should make it even more interesting.

 

[Cookster15]

Re:

One of the mythical climbs where The Great One's ascent to GC supremacy began in 2011. Should be a close duel against the young Colombian, with lesser riders reduced to watching the spectacle unfold from a distance

Actually Contador's ascent to GC supremacy began well before the 2011 Giro - in 2008 won the Giro after allegedly "sitting on a beach", then 2009 at Verbier or even 2007 going toe to toe with Rasmussen when he was only 24 years old. These are the instances that built AC's reputation well before 2011.

But he's no longer young and has been at the top of the sport for most of the last 10 years so I remain unconvinced what he can do the rest of this Vuelta against younger competition like Quintana who is obviously in peak form. But he is Contador after all so he won't die wondering he will attack because that is how he always races even when weak by his own standards.

 

[Gigs_98]

Clarke out with fractured scapula.

He definitely was the outstanding favorite for stage 12 and 13 and he also might have won one or two of the remaining mtf's. I still can't believe he hasn't won any big race after he should have won Milan-San Remo this year

 

[Valv.Piti]

The legend of Si Clarke continues; in alternate universe, one very akin to Contador's in 2014, he had at least wrapped 3 stages up in the remainder of the race if not for this.

Just horrible, horrible, Sean, isn't it?

 

[sir fly]

Re:

The legend of Si Clarke continues; in alternate universe, one very akin to Contador's in 2014, he had at least wrapped 3 stages up in the remainder of the race if not for this.

Just horrible, horrible, Sean, isn't it?

Certaintly...

 

[Billie]

Would Froome have taken those 11 secs on Cobo in 2011 had he been using his yoyo powermeter style?

 

[Poursuivant]

Re:

Would Froome have taken those 11 secs on Cobo in 2011 had he been using his yoyo powermeter style?

Nah when you see Froome yoyo, it is when he is not 100%, or close to it. During 2012 Vuelta he was stronger than what he is now.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Would Froome have taken those 11 secs on Cobo in 2011 had he been using his yoyo powermeter style?

Nah when you see Froome yoyo, it is when he is not 100%, or close to it. During 2012 Vuelta he was stronger than what he is now.

Yep, in 2012, he trained quite a bit between the Olympics and the Vuelta. Result? He was looking good in the first week and then fatigue crippled him. Meanwhile this year, he's hardly trained, hoping to build form over the course of 3 weeks and more importantly hoping that fatigue doesn't hit him anywhere near as hard

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

Would Froome have taken those 11 secs on Cobo in 2011 had he been using his yoyo powermeter style?

Nah when you see Froome yoyo, it is when he is not 100%, or close to it. During 2012 Vuelta he was stronger than what he is now.

Yep, in 2012, he trained quite a bit between the Olympics and the Vuelta. Result? He was looking good in the first week and then fatigue crippled him. Meanwhile this year, he's hardly trained, hoping to build form over the course of 3 weeks and more importantly hoping that fatigue doesn't hit him anywhere near as hard

Hardly trained and pushing 6.17 w/kg on a a Mountain finish. :lol:

I hope you don't seriously believe that.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Would Froome have taken those 11 secs on Cobo in 2011 had he been using his yoyo powermeter style?

Nah when you see Froome yoyo, it is when he is not 100%, or close to it. During 2012 Vuelta he was stronger than what he is now.

Yep, in 2012, he trained quite a bit between the Olympics and the Vuelta. Result? He was looking good in the first week and then fatigue crippled him. Meanwhile this year, he's hardly trained, hoping to build form over the course of 3 weeks and more importantly hoping that fatigue doesn't hit him anywhere near as hard

Hardly trained and pushing 6.17 w/kg on a a Mountain finish. :lol:

I hope you don't seriously believe that.

Hardly trained for the 10 days between the Olympics and start of the Vuelta and pushing 6.17w/kg after 10 days of racing. Anyway, where did you get that figure of 6.17w/kg from? If that was the case, Quintana would be pushing 6.3w/kg

 

[Sykes]

Gesink going for it again!

 

[dacooley]

nairo to win. froome and bertie to bleed yet 15-20'' and finish together. hope for the win from the group of big guns!

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

Would Froome have taken those 11 secs on Cobo in 2011 had he been using his yoyo powermeter style?

During 2012 Vuelta he was stronger than what he is now.

No, just no.

 

[Ataraxus]

Re: Re:

Would Froome have taken those 11 secs on Cobo in 2011 had he been using his yoyo powermeter style?

During 2012 Vuelta he was stronger than what he is now.

No, just no.

Amazing new entries in the Top 100 Lagos de Covadonga


1. 2005: 32:22 Gilberto Simoni 22.62 km/h
2. 2005: 32:27 Carlos Sastre 22.56 km/h
3. 2000: 32:29 Roberto Heras 22.53 km/h
4. 2005: 32:34 Denis Menchov 22.48 km/h
5. 2005: 32:34 Roberto Heras 22.48 km/h
6. 2016: 32:35 Nairo Quintana 22.47 km/h
7. 2016: 33:00 Christopher Froome 22.18 km/h
8. 2005: 33:01 Miguel Angel Perdiguero 22.17 km/h
9. 2005: 33:01 Oscar Sevilla 22.17 km/h
10. 2016: 33:03 Alejandro Valverde 22.15 km/h
11. 2016: 33:03 Michele Scarponi 22.15 km/h
....
....
...
51. 2014: 34:10 Alberto Contador 21.42 km/h
52. 2010: 34:11 Ezequiel Mosquera 21.41 km/h
53. 2005: 34:16 Roberto Laiseka 21.36 km/h
54. 2012: 34:16 Tomasz Marczynski 21.36 km/h
55. 2012: 34:16 Robert Gesink 21.36 km/h
56. 2012: 34:16 Winner Anacona 21.36 km/h
57. 2012: 34:16 Andrew Talansky 21.36 km/h
58. 2012: 34:16 Bart De Clercq 21.36 km/h
59. 2012: 34:16 Przemyslaw Niemiec 21.36 km/h
60. 2012: 34:16 Daniel Moreno 21.36 km/h
61. 2012: 34:16 Christopher Froome 21.36 km/h
62. 2012: 34:16 Benat Intxausti 21.36 km/h
63. 2014: 34:17 Fabio Aru 21.35 km/h
64. 2014: 34:17 Christopher Froome 21.35 km/h

 

[Robert5091]

A 5.6 km long MTT? If the Sky or Moviestar train is running, I would expect a charge to circa 2 km from finish and then a GC sprint. Froome can just follow Quintana now if he's happy with the current gap before the upcoming ITT. If Bertie and Chaves want the third podium place, they'll have to work together to get rid of Valverde.
Turn on the TV when the climb starts!

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

One of the mythical climbs where The Great One's ascent to GC supremacy began in 2011. Should be a close duel against the young Colombian, with lesser riders reduced to watching the spectacle unfold from a distance

Actually Contador's ascent to GC supremacy began well before the 2011 Giro - in 2008 won the Giro after allegedly "sitting on a beach", then 2009 at Verbier or even 2007 going toe to toe with Rasmussen when he was only 24 years old. These are the instances that built AC's reputation well before 2011.

But he's no longer young and has been at the top of the sport for most of the last 10 years so I remain unconvinced what he can do the rest of this Vuelta against younger competition like Quintana who is obviously in peak form. But he is Contador after all so he won't die wondering he will attack because that is how he always races even when weak by his own standards.

Good post

 

[KyoGrey]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

The fact that some people may copy the The Great One nickname for Froome can be thought of an acknowledment of Contador's relevance in this sport.

BTW, I don't understand why it seems incompatible to support both riders. I personally think that if Froome lacked the support of the Sky juggernaut, he wouldn't hesitate to attempt great solo exhibitions a la Contador style.

Froome has shown hints of this kind of greatness. The problem is that it is hidden behind the Sky-train orthodoxy.

Perhaps in the future, when father time shows his humanity and contradictions he will become a loved rider for the general public. It usually goes that way. The general international opinion on Contador or Valverde is very different today that it was in 2009 for example.

 

[Miburo]

Contador to win

The rest day must have done him a lot of good, i bellieve

 

[boasson]

Re: Re:

One of the mythical climbs where The Great One's ascent to GC supremacy began in 2011. Should be a close duel against the young Colombian, with lesser riders reduced to watching the spectacle unfold from a distance

Actually Contador's ascent to GC supremacy began well before the 2011 Giro - in 2008 won the Giro after allegedly "sitting on a beach", then 2009 at Verbier or even 2007 going toe to toe with Rasmussen when he was only 24 years old. These are the instances that built AC's reputation well before 2011.

But he's no longer young and has been at the top of the sport for most of the last 10 years so I remain unconvinced what he can do the rest of this Vuelta against younger competition like Quintana who is obviously in peak form. But he is Contador after all so he won't die wondering he will attack because that is how he always races even when weak by his own standards.

Good post

Which really really attacks did you see in the last 4 Years at GTs from him? I mean no alibi or pseudo attacks to quit the race after burning himself senseless at the first Climb with "fever". Or attacks with 3 riders at the wheel and doing a stop and go ride afterwards until the finish. I mean a potentially GT winning attack like Andy in 2011, Quintana at the Giro 2014 in the downhill, Nibali at this years Giro to destroy Krujse and Valverde or Froomes mountain, downhill and crosswinds attacks at the TDFs.

TDF 2013?
Vuelta 2014?
Giro 2015?
TDF 2015?
TDF 2016?
Vuelta 2016?

Not really. So the only thing to expect from him in this vuelta are short attacks at the last climb to kill himself completely like at Covadonga. When he know its over, he will try from far out at saturday. But it will be for the show. Not to win this race.

 

[dacooley]

one cannot unlearn dreamers to dream as most bertie fans are desperate romantics.

 

[Poursuivant]

Re: Re:

Would Froome have taken those 11 secs on Cobo in 2011 had he been using his yoyo powermeter style?

During 2012 Vuelta he was stronger than what he is now.

No, just no.

Meant to put 2011