2017 Tour of Flanders / Ronde Van Vlaanderen - April 2, 260k

[HelloDolly]

Gilbert has always had the class ...just for a long time he did not have the hunger ...simples

Its amasing what you can do when in the last chance saloon

 

[dlwssonic]

Re: 2017 Tour of Flanders / Ronde Van Vlaanderen - April 2,

Does anybody hava the ascent times for Paterberg?

Anyway dude you were so totally right,

Saying that GVA wouldn't win because of Sagan,

Just not the way we expected.

 

[Põhja Konn]

Amazing, amazing race and even more amazing victory. Gilbert genuinely looks as strong, if not stronger than 2011. He is a different type of rider now, so it's not that easy to compare those two vintages.

The Muur did after all, make the difference. It effectively played the role the Arenberg trench does in Roubaix - unofficial startpoint of a decisive part of the race.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re: Re:

Sagan went too close to the barriers... Sad that it had to end like this but take nothing away from Gilberts ride

Yep. They keep trying to avoid the cobbles by riding on guttrs and whatnot. Eventually they (Sagan in particular) hit a barrier. Unfortunate but only himself to blame

The barrier was being pushed over by spectators. Plenty of room otherwise. No fault to The Sag.

Noooo. He tried his luck near the barrier, going full-out, late into the race, and lost.

It's important to understand that 90% (pick your own big number) of the time, nothing bad happens trying your luck in the gutters. It's always an unknown combination of events/likelihoods riding on the curbs like that. This time it caught him out.

 

[Velolover2]

Re:

Amazing, amazing race and even more amazing victory. Gilbert genuinely looks as strong, if not stronger than 2011. He is a different type of rider now, so it's not that easy to compare those two vintages.

The Muur didd after all, make the difference. It effectively played the role the Arenberg trench does in Roubaix - unofficial startpoint of a decisive part of the race.

The Muur needs to stay. It's as important as Koppenberg for the race. Another signature climb.

 

[rhubroma]

What a wacky race. Sagan and GVA skrewed up royally in being placed too far back when Boonen forced the pace to open a gap. At that point QS had all the cards stacked in their favor, played the Phil one way earlier than would have been otherwise possible, who then held off the chase because Sagan rode too close to the barrier. Before barriergate, however, Boonen was KO due to a second mechanical after a bike change. It would have been interesting to see whether Boonen would been able to mark Sagan and GVA to then beat them (the second QS card) in the sprint after they caught Phil, had they not gone down as was the case. The variables are mind boggling, because Phil was impressive, but QS would have never played his card that soon had Sagan and GVA not been caught sleeping, and so he would have been a lot fresher for the finish to be able to win the race in any case. Had he, that is, not won it the way he did. What a wacky race.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Amazing, amazing race and even more amazing victory. Gilbert genuinely looks as strong, if not stronger than 2011. He is a different type of rider now, so it's not that easy to compare those two vintages.

The Muur didd after all, make the difference. It effectively played the role the Arenberg trench does in Roubaix - unofficial startpoint of a decisive part of the race.

The Muur needs to stay. It's as important as Koppenberg for the race. Another signature climb.

Way better than the Koppenberg for me. Sure, the Koppenberg is really steep and has horrible cobbles - but it's only a few hundred metres long. The Muur is 2km - and gradually builds up to a great crescendo near the capella. Whatever race it's in - even some minor events like de Panne or Eneco Tour, it guarantees great action.

Plus the crowds and the scenery. It should be illegal really for the organisers not to include it in RVV.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re: Re:

they still finished 1st and 3rd.

I don't know anything about Terpstra, but, being towed all the way in by GvA and then losing the sprint isn't good. Maybe he's more "engine" than sprinter.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

they still finished 1st and 3rd.

I don't know anything about Terpstra, but, being towed all the way in by GvA and then losing the sprint isn't good. Maybe he's more "engine" than sprinter.

Sure, from Terpstra's point of view it wasn't exactly a heroic podium effort. But from Quickstep as a whole, it's a great overall result from some pretty bold tactical moves.

I guess if Gilbert wasn't up the road, then Terpstra would have tried something before the final km. But then again, he did work with, and then try to outsprint Kristoff a couple of years ago - so you never know!

 

[Akuryo]

Re: Re:

they still finished 1st and 3rd.

I don't know anything about Terpstra, but, being towed all the way in by GvA and then losing the sprint isn't good. Maybe he's more "engine" than sprinter.

2015 Nationals say otherwise. He actually outsprinted everyone in that race.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re:

What a wacky race. Sagan and GVA skrewed up royally in being placed too far back when Boonen forced the pace to open a gap. At that point QS had all the cards stacked in their favor, played the Phil one way earlier than would have been otherwise possible, who then held off the chase because Sagan rode too close to the barrier. Before barriergate, however, Boonen was KO due to a second mechanical after a bike change. It would have been interesting to see whether Boonen would been able to mark Sagan and GVA to then beat them (the second QS card) in the sprint after they caught Phil, had they not gone down as was the case. The variables are mind boggling, because Phil was impressive, but QS would have never played his card that soon had Sagan and GVA not been caught sleeping, and so he would have been a lot fresher for the finish to be able to win the race in any case. Had he, that is, not won it the way he did. What a wacky race.

Every year they have the depth to do this kind of racing and most years it doesn't work out at all. This year all of it worked.

Had Sagan not fallen, I think the run into the finish would have been closer with Sagan on the podium. Would Sagan have been enough to close on Gilbert? Who knows! I doubt it though.

A huge result for van Baarle. 24 years old!

 

[PunchingRouleur]

Re:

With Sagan they'd probably have caught him but I don't think that should take anything away from Gilberts win since I'm pretty confident he was the strongest rider on the day. He was riding on the front of the peolton at 100km to go protecting Boonen which already caused a page of replies on this thread He then did some big turns for 40km in a group before a 60km solo attack ... so yea

This. Most impressive ride I have seen in long time.

 

[portugal11]

So when it comes to unpredictable races, skyborgs are nowhere to be seen

 

[Forever The Best]

Also the crash was Sagan's fault. There is always a risk of crashing when you ride that close to the barriers. He took a risk to catch Phil but he failed.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

So when it comes to unpredictable races, skyborgs are nowhere to be seen

That's harsh. As much as I'm reluctant to give sky credit; they were important in establishing the decisive break and then Rowe got taken down because Vanmarcke tried to ride along a huge crack in the middle of the road.

Form in previous races suggests that Rowe wouldn't have been a factor anyway, but they did well up until that point and were absolutely blameless for the crash/

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

What a beautiful day's racing. Just heroic from Gilbert. I don't usually cheer for him, but if he'd been caught today I might have wept.

Also really great to see Rivera win. There is something very admirable about someone who is seen by everyone else as an out and out sprinter instead insisting that what they really care about is classics racing. If she was a man she'd be a forum hero.

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

So when it comes to unpredictable races, skyborgs are nowhere to be seen

Stop it with the baseless Sky hate. They made the move on the Muur with two riders and then one was taken out. Moscon wasn't able to follow Gilbert (not surprising) and then that group was absorbed. Moscon had worked quite a bit for Rowe before the crash, so he wasn't able to follow Felline/Van Baarle or Sagan/GvA so remained in the third group. Finished 15th so wasn't an awful effort by a 22 year old.

Last year during Paris-Roubaix they also had four or five riders in the front group in another slightly unpredictable race but then they wiped each other out whilst leading the group. Stannard still finished on the podium. The 'Skyborg' label doesn't fit for the classics, only for Grand Tours.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re:

So when it comes to unpredictable races, skyborgs are nowhere to be seen

Well.... Gianni Moscone, alone, in the second group is a good result. One day races are not as easy to win on plain old power. The racing in Belgium is almost a unique skill. The amount of luck one needs is crazy as well.

Ian Stannard has, in the past, targeted the Classics with some great results.

If you want to discuss it more, the Clinic is the right subforum.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

What a wacky race. Sagan and GVA skrewed up royally in being placed too far back when Boonen forced the pace to open a gap. At that point QS had all the cards stacked in their favor, played the Phil one way earlier than would have been otherwise possible, who then held off the chase because Sagan rode too close to the barrier. Before barriergate, however, Boonen was KO due to a second mechanical after a bike change. It would have been interesting to see whether Boonen would been able to mark Sagan and GVA to then beat them (the second QS card) in the sprint after they caught Phil, had they not gone down as was the case. The variables are mind boggling, because Phil was impressive, but QS would have never played his card that soon had Sagan and GVA not been caught sleeping, and so he would have been a lot fresher for the finish to be able to win the race in any case. Had he, that is, not won it the way he did. What a wacky race.

Every year they have the depth to do this kind of racing and most years it doesn't work out at all. This year all of it worked.

Had Sagan not fallen, I think the run into the finish would have been closer with Sagan on the podium. Would Sagan have been enough to close on Gilbert? Who knows! I doubt it though.

A huge result for van Baarle. 24 years old!

Ahh, I disagree about Sagan and GVA not catching Phil though. The crash perhaps cost GVA 10-12 seconds AND no Sagan for the chase. Now at 5k out the gap to Phil was what 30 seconds circa. Without the crash it's say 20, perhaps less AND with Sagan working I doubt Phil stays free.

On the other hand his was clearly a merited victory, because he played his card from so far out and clearly was among the strongest in the race. But his card was played thus, because Sagan and GVA were caught sleeping. Evidently they didn't think QS would have tried something from that far out, which was dumb, since Boonen said he didn't want to ride his last Ronde in the pack. The moment the team car told him Sagan and GVA were dilly dallying, Boonen went into action as planned. Then, as you said, "it all worked," though ironically not for Boonen!

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re: Re:

Then, as you said, "it all worked," though ironically not for Boonen!

Yes. One of the reasons I like bike racing. There is such an element of luck. Equipment has to work perfectly, even for Boonen.

There's no way to know what a 2nd group with Sagan would have done. He was absolutely destroying his group before the crash.

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

Then, as you said, "it all worked," though ironically not for Boonen!

Yes. One of the reasons I like bike racing. There is such an element of luck. Equipment has to work perfectly, even for Boonen.

There's no way to know what a 2nd group with Sagan would have done. He was absolutely destroying his group before the crash.

Yes, he was. No doubt in my mind the second group would have caught PG within the last 4k, with Sagan's help but without it they were toast.

 

[Son of Amsterhammer]

Great victory. What happened shouldn't take away from that. Assuming GvA and Sagan would have worked together....I'm not sure he makes it. It would have been really close I think. Look at the crash, GvA took a hell of a spill and landed on Sagan's rear wheel. It had to have an impact, other than the time immediately lost. A great victory, that was still fun to see. I think the ending could have been something unbelievable if the crash hadn't happened though.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Then, as you said, "it all worked," though ironically not for Boonen!

Yes. One of the reasons I like bike racing. There is such an element of luck. Equipment has to work perfectly, even for Boonen.

There's no way to know what a 2nd group with Sagan would have done. He was absolutely destroying his group before the crash.

In fact, there is no way of knowing for sure. I think, however, Sagan and GVA (and whoever else could have kept up with them) without the crash would have bridged the gap. Had Boonen not had mechanical problems and stayed with them, it would have been even more epic.

But congratulations to the winner.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Re: Re:

What a wacky race. Sagan and GVA skrewed up royally in being placed too far back when Boonen forced the pace to open a gap. At that point QS had all the cards stacked in their favor, played the Phil one way earlier than would have been otherwise possible, who then held off the chase because Sagan rode too close to the barrier. Before barriergate, however, Boonen was KO due to a second mechanical after a bike change. It would have been interesting to see whether Boonen would been able to mark Sagan and GVA to then beat them (the second QS card) in the sprint after they caught Phil, had they not gone down as was the case. The variables are mind boggling, because Phil was impressive, but QS would have never played his card that soon had Sagan and GVA not been caught sleeping, and so he would have been a lot fresher for the finish to be able to win the race in any case. Had he, that is, not won it the way he did. What a wacky race.

Every year they have the depth to do this kind of racing and most years it doesn't work out at all. This year all of it worked.

Had Sagan not fallen, I think the run into the finish would have been closer with Sagan on the podium. Would Sagan have been enough to close on Gilbert? Who knows! I doubt it though.

A huge result for van Baarle. 24 years old!

Ahh, I disagree about Sagan and GVA not catching Phil though. The crash perhaps cost GVA 10-12 seconds AND no Sagan for the chase. Now at 5k out the gap to Phil was what 30 seconds circa.

Nope. The GPS was clearly wrong, seeing as Gilbert still had 29 seconds at the finish line.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Then, as you said, "it all worked," though ironically not for Boonen!

Yes. One of the reasons I like bike racing. There is such an element of luck. Equipment has to work perfectly, even for Boonen.

There's no way to know what a 2nd group with Sagan would have done. He was absolutely destroying his group before the crash.

Yes, he was. No doubt in my mind the second group would have caught PG within the last 4k, with Sagan's help but without it they were toast.

No way Sagan could have helped close 30+ seconds in the situation that would have developed. He would have basically just taken the place of Van Baarle, who was dropped at the point of the crash - as was Terpstra. Naessen, had he somehow managed to hang on the Paterberg, probably could have only contributed as much as Teprstra. So Sagan would have had to close 30 seconds more than Van Baarle managed to; possibly with GVA also holding a little more back than he did? No chance.