2017 Tour of Flanders / Ronde Van Vlaanderen - April 2, 260k

[Fight.The.Power]

Just watched the race. Thrilled for Gilbert! Heroic effort.

 

[Volderke]

Re:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YJAP4QeV-Y From this video you could time gaps perfectly at the place of that crash. Gilbert 0:09, Sagan/GVA 1:04, Trentin 1:15, Terpstra at 1:37. He was down the road 33 sec behind GVA and he was with him at the Paterberg. GVA lost half a minute because of crash. Would be thriller at the end. By the way gps was right at 4km banner. It was 35 sec.

20 seconds based on GvA starve. (selected the part <30kmh/h, and in comparison with second climb up with was pretty fast)

 

[Dan2016]

Re: Re:

crash debunked

https://twitter.com/Peter_SagFan/status/848827738194673664

If you look at the video supplied here, from another post you can see clearly the jack hooks Peter's left bars and causes the crash.

https://www.facebook.com/PeterSagan/videos/10155273969579467/

It was obvious live imo but thanks for proving beyond a shadow of a doubt what happened.

Usually jackets don't fly onto people who coincidentally forget how to ride a bike in their vicinity.

Good video. To me it looked like a combination of the jacket and the two barrier feet immediately after the jacket that were sticking out waaaay further than all the rest.

When you see how fast they were going it's a hell of a risk to be riding so close to the barriers isn't it, bit surprising more crashes like this don't happen.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re: 2017 Tour of Flanders / Ronde Van Vlaanderen - April 2,

What a pity. I am starting to believe this could be very close if Sagan has not had crashed. According to his Slovak interview, he was about to launch the attack and if GVA was on the top shape it could be suspense till the very end.

I wish somebody measure the Sagan and Gilbert time from the bottom of the last Paterberg.
I am not taking anything from Gilbert, his performance was out this world. I am just sad we could not see Sagan vs GVA on Paterberg and the final chasing.

 

[Flamin]

Rewatched the race. Imo Boonen was the big driving force of the group. Not necessarily because he was taking the hardest pulls (Stuyven mentioned Gilbert doing those), but he was the big leader. Little "good job"-pat on the back of Demare, talking with the other riders, going to the front whenever the pace threatened to drop etc. If a champion like Boonen comes up to you, motivates you and stuff, you feel good and are much more likely to give yourself than when a guy like Terpstra does it. Simple as that.

Gilbert owes Boonen and he knows it very well. Boonen also knew that if he did what he did for Gilbert, the latter would be super motivated to give his all for him in Roubaix. Very smart.

Was thinking about writing a deeper analysis but it would take too long since it was a very interesting race tactically.

 

[RedheadDane]

The "somewhat famous cobbled" rider finished last today among those that finished the race ... his legacy is getting better and better

121. USA FARRAR Tyler DDD 11'31" 5

Well, it can't be denied that he's not the same guy as he was back in 2010.
Okay... he is the same guy, otherwise we'd have a body-snatcher case on our hands... he's not riding as well as he used to.

 

[Billie]

Re:

Rewatched the race. Imo Boonen was the big driving force of the group. Not necessarily because he was taking the hardest pulls (Stuyven mentioned Gilbert doing those), but he was the big leader. Little "good job"-pat on the back of Demare, talking with the other riders, going to the front whenever the pace threatened to drop etc. If a champion like Boonen comes up to you, motivates you and stuff, you feel good and are much more likely to give yourself than when a guy like Terpstra does it. Simple as that.

Gilbert owes Boonen and he knows it very well. Boonen also knew that if he did what he did for Gilbert, the latter would be super motivated to give his all for him in Roubaix. Very smart.

Was thinking about writing a deeper analysis but it would take too long since it was a very interesting race tactically.

yes indeed. most interesting moment was after the Muur when Trek closed down Sagan but stopped riding instead of closing down the 5 second gap to the big group.

 

[Brullnux]

They had Stuyven up ahead so I guess that may have had something to do with it.

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

Rewatched the race. Imo Boonen was the big driving force of the group. Not necessarily because he was taking the hardest pulls (Stuyven mentioned Gilbert doing those), but he was the big leader. Little "good job"-pat on the back of Demare, talking with the other riders, going to the front whenever the pace threatened to drop etc. If a champion like Boonen comes up to you, motivates you and stuff, you feel good and are much more likely to give yourself than when a guy like Terpstra does it. Simple as that.

Gilbert owes Boonen and he knows it very well. Boonen also knew that if he did what he did for Gilbert, the latter would be super motivated to give his all for him in Roubaix. Very smart.

Was thinking about writing a deeper analysis but it would take too long since it was a very interesting race tactically.

yes indeed. most interesting moment was after the Muur when Trek closed down Sagan but stopped riding instead of closing down the 5 second gap to the big group.

What struck me most is how well the Gilbert group worked together right from the gong. Kristoff, Demare, Chavanel, Rowe, Sep, all of them pretty much fully committed, even though the 2nd group was really close. Very rarely seen it in a group where Quick Step has the numbers (usually everyone looks at them in that situation), let alone when Gilbert, Boonen AND Trentin are there.

Seems like many riders and teams have embraced the super open racing mentality that has taken yet another step this year. The riders themselves like it and they know the crowd likes it.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I've rewatched a few key moments as well.

Needless to say, everyone with a heart was super disappointed at Boonen getting a mech. He was in superb position going in on Boonenberg, but what can you do. I was pretty sure at the time that he could have followed Sagan, GVA and Naesen (damn he was good), but after watching Koppenberg again Im not so sure. I realize that climb doesn't suit him well, but its basically a longer Paterberg, so i doubt he could have been with GVA there. No matter what he looked brilliant and is the 5 star favorite for me going into Roubaix ahead of Degenstache, Terpstra, GVA and maybe Sagan (I have my doubts).

 

[Forever The Best]

Re:

I've rewatched a few key moments as well.

Needless to say, everyone with a heart was super disappointed at Boonen getting a mech. He was in superb position going in on Boonenberg, but what can you do. I was pretty sure at the time that he could have followed Sagan, GVA and Naesen (damn he was good), but after watching Koppenberg again Im not so sure. I realize that climb doesn't suit him well, but its basically a longer Paterberg, so i doubt he could have been with GVA there. No matter what he looked brilliant and is the 5 star favorite for me going into Roubaix ahead of Degenstache, Terpstra, GVA and maybe Sagan (I have my doubts).

I did it as well. Excellent race all the way from the start of the Muur. Also Boonen is always much better on Boonenberg. Him puncturing was very unlucky as well.
Sagan took a risk by riding so close to the barriers and crashed. Also props to Van Avermaet for still finishing 2nd even with the crash.
Also what a ride and what a win by Phil! Such an amazing rider!

 

[Valv.Piti]

I also noticed just how nonchalant Sagan rode this race. Not gonna win him many races to race like this.

 

[Forever The Best]

Re:

I also noticed just how nonchalant Sagan rode this race. Not gonna win him many races to race like this.

Sagan always fails when he is on the backfoot (i.e. when he is chasing some of the favourites)
He should be aggressive like MSR or last years Flanders and then keep himself calm before delivering the storm( ie. Paterberg 16, his attack in Richmond)

 

[hazaran]

Re:

Needless to say, everyone with a heart was super disappointed at Boonen getting a mech.

Getting a flat is bad luck, but wrapping up your mech on todays technology? That's pretty much user error. Shift before the climb and you're going to be fine...

 

[Netserk]

He did shift before the climb...

To Flamin, yes there's definitely a positive reinforcement from aggressive racing (just like the same is the case for negative racing). Thank god we have Tommeke and not Valverde for the cobbles

 

[Billie]

Re: Re:

Rewatched the race. Imo Boonen was the big driving force of the group. Not necessarily because he was taking the hardest pulls (Stuyven mentioned Gilbert doing those), but he was the big leader. Little "good job"-pat on the back of Demare, talking with the other riders, going to the front whenever the pace threatened to drop etc. If a champion like Boonen comes up to you, motivates you and stuff, you feel good and are much more likely to give yourself than when a guy like Terpstra does it. Simple as that.

Gilbert owes Boonen and he knows it very well. Boonen also knew that if he did what he did for Gilbert, the latter would be super motivated to give his all for him in Roubaix. Very smart.

Was thinking about writing a deeper analysis but it would take too long since it was a very interesting race tactically.

yes indeed. most interesting moment was after the Muur when Trek closed down Sagan but stopped riding instead of closing down the 5 second gap to the big group.

What struck me most is how well the Gilbert group worked together right from the gong. Kristoff, Demare, Chavanel, Rowe, Sep, all of them pretty much fully committed, even though the 2nd group was really close. Very rarely seen it in a group where Quick Step has the numbers (usually everyone looks at them in that situation), let alone when Gilbert, Boonen AND Trentin are there.

Seems like many riders and teams have embraced the super open racing mentality that has taken yet another step this year. The riders themselves like it and they know the crowd likes it.

yes perfect guys in there. Demare for example was already showing on Leberg and Berendries that he wanted to go from afar. Kristoff also someone who always will take responsability in a break.

 

[Billie]

Underrated part of Flanders is the state of the normal roads.

Stuff like this is absolute *** to ride on. You find them everywhere here. It doesn't run at all. The difference with normal asphalt is huge.

 

[trevim]

Re: 2017 Tour of Flanders / Ronde Van Vlaanderen - April 2,

So glad to see Gilbert winning like this, it was the ride of his career! I never thought he would come back to win another monument but it's times like these that really remind the difference between a born champion like Gilbert and someone who gets to win monuments (Goss, Poels et al) but doesn't really have that inate souplesse and racing brain.

Regarding the race I was amazed to see Gilbert taking pulls even before the Kapelmuur; it goes to show that even though Van Avermaet and Sagan diminished the importance of that climb, it just about how it's raced. It was quite fitting to see the biggest belgian riders of this century riding on the front of the Kapelmuur. The guts and the instinct to go from far out was remarkable but I was disappointed with Trentin: he's one of my favourite riders and after being on the front group I had hoped he could get a top10, it's about time to get that classics breakthrough that help rise through the team ranks.

I believe the race would have been different without the crash but it's the classics, crashes are such a big part of it that it doesn't take anything away from Gilbert's ride. Van Avermaet again showing a great consistency, I will be amazed if he doesn't get a monument someday, specially now that he has Sagan's number. Regarding Sagan, he needs to sort out his tactics: either he makes the race or he marks the other favourites and that's right as well: staying in between disconnected from the race and always bad positioned will not bring him any win.

The greatest disappointment was definitely Lotto-Soudal with 6 DNF's in their home race including Benoot, Roelandts and Debusschere. Was that 5th place for Benoot in 2015 just a fluke? He never looked like a winner but he hasn't shown much in the classics since then. Roelandts and Debusschere were a complete no show and even Gallopin was smashed all the way to the line.

The image of Gilbert across the line in the belgian champion jersey will surely inspire the next generation of kids that will the defy the records of Boonen, Gilbert but also De Vlaeminck, Van Looy or Merckx.

(On a slightly chauvinistic note, Nelson Oliveira cracks the top20 in Flanders once more!)

 

[Netserk]

Btw, did anyone see (on any photos) if the legend was on the Muur?

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Re: Re:

crash debunked

https://twitter.com/Peter_SagFan/status/848827738194673664

Not debunked, just another blinkered opinion.

Slightly further down that twitter page, the frame by frame showing that in drifting from the grass back to the cobbles he may have hit the side of a higher than typical cobble looks to be the more likely explanation.

https://www.facebook.com/PeterSagan/videos/10155273969579467/

Do you need CSI zoom/enhance video or are you just totally blind?

Please don't be obnoxiously sarcastic. The video that you have linked to is not the one that I had been referred to and was commenting on.

Thank you for providing this clearer evidence, shame you did so in such a graceless manner.

 

[wayahead]

Re:

Naesen hits the same jacket that Sagan hit and independently falls--he is actually going down before Van Avermaet does.

It really seems like Naesen fell independently of Sagan. Like he didn't see those sticking out barriers feet.

To me it looked like a combination of the jacket and the two barrier feet immediately after the jacket that were sticking out waaaay further than all the rest.

Yes, it was clerly combination of these two separate factors that lead to crash. Now I think it was more bad luck than risk taking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YJAP4QeV-Y From this video you could time gaps perfectly at the place of that crash. Gilbert 0:09, Sagan/GVA 1:04, Trentin 1:15, Terpstra at 1:37. He was down the road 33 sec behind GVA and he was with him at the Paterberg. GVA lost half a minute because of crash. Would be thriller at the end. By the way gps was right at 4km banner. It was 35 sec.

20 seconds based on GvA starve. (selected the part <30kmh/h, and in comparison with second climb up with was pretty fast)

Not exactly the proof, but we can conclude it was something between 20 - 33 sec. Which means I was presumably wrong and Gilbert would be caught. He was suffering on Paterberg and all three chasers were willing to cooperate. Anyway, crashes during frantic chase are something that attacker can gamble on as well...

 

[Monte]

Re: Re:

Naesen hits the same jacket that Sagan hit and independently falls--he is actually going down before Van Avermaet does.

It really seems like Naesen fell independently of Sagan. Like he didn't see those sticking out barriers feet.

To me it looked like a combination of the jacket and the two barrier feet immediately after the jacket that were sticking out waaaay further than all the rest.

Yes, it was clerly combination of these two separate factors that lead to crash. Now I think it was more bad luck than risk taking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YJAP4QeV-Y From this video you could time gaps perfectly at the place of that crash. Gilbert 0:09, Sagan/GVA 1:04, Trentin 1:15, Terpstra at 1:37. He was down the road 33 sec behind GVA and he was with him at the Paterberg. GVA lost half a minute because of crash. Would be thriller at the end. By the way gps was right at 4km banner. It was 35 sec.

20 seconds based on GvA starve. (selected the part <30kmh/h, and in comparison with second climb up with was pretty fast)

Not exactly the proof, but we can conclude it was something between 20 - 33 sec. Which means I was presumably wrong and Gilbert would be caught. He was suffering on Paterberg and all three chasers were willing to cooperate. Anyway, crashes during frantic chase are something that attacker can gamble on as well...

I tend to use Alpine slalom to explain these kinda things in Cycling as well, you want me to elaborate?

I guess not. Its a reason GVA got All of Scandinavias respect when he didnt EVEN MENTION THE FALL IN INTERVIEW AFTER THE RACE!!

GVA is my new hero, and yes Gilbert is a legend!

 

[Volderke]

Re: Re:

Naesen hits the same jacket that Sagan hit and independently falls--he is actually going down before Van Avermaet does.

It really seems like Naesen fell independently of Sagan. Like he didn't see those sticking out barriers feet.

Naesen fel because Sagan made that jacket move with his shifter.

 

[jflemaire]

Re: Re:

Naesen hits the same jacket that Sagan hit and independently falls--he is actually going down before Van Avermaet does.

It really seems like Naesen fell independently of Sagan. Like he didn't see those sticking out barriers feet.

Naesen fel because Sagan made that jacket move with his shifter.

Naesen fell because he was riding too close to the barriers. Same for GVA and Sagan. I have clear memories of Gilbert riding alone in the dead centre of the road. Not saying he never rode close to the public but it seems to me he was doing it far less often.

 

[Volderke]

Re: Re:

Naesen hits the same jacket that Sagan hit and independently falls--he is actually going down before Van Avermaet does.

It really seems like Naesen fell independently of Sagan. Like he didn't see those sticking out barriers feet.

Naesen fel because Sagan made that jacket move with his shifter.

Naesen fell because he was riding too close to the barriers. Same for GVA and Sagan. I have clear memories of Gilbert riding alone in the dead centre of the road. Not saying he never rode close to the public but it seems to me he was doing it far less often.

GvA fell because Sagan fell, not because he was ever close to the barriers. GvA always kept half a meter distance. Check the video.
Gilbert rode not in the dead centre but on the right. Barriers were further away on the right. But more important, Sagan rode left because the wind was coming from the right front, so that is why Sagan didn't choose the right side but the (more risky) left, to put GvA and Naesen under pressure.